Angel No Longer Cursed

[ThePowerThatIs]

I just finished watching Angel (again) and before that Buffy and I realised something I never did before. Angel is no longer cursed. The gypsy curse was broken after that night with Buffy. When Willow restored his soul, she didn't re-curse him, she just put his soul back.

 

[VisionGirl]

Hmm, that's an interesting theory but I don't think there's any evidence to support that. It has always been supposed by everyone around him that that particular aspect of the curse is still valid. In season 4 when they're removing his soul in Awakening, he even dreams of losing his soul while sleeping with Cordelia.

 

[ThePowerThatIs]

What I forgot was that Willow performed the Ritual of Restoration, the same ritual the gypsies used. Therefore, she did re-curse him. This is what happens when I stay awake all night.

/thread

 

[Buffy Summers]

It would have been an interesting new discussion point though 🙂

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I believe Angel is still cursed, but like Wesley said, it's very unlikely that Angel will never experience a Moment of Pure Happiness again.

 

[white avenger]

I believe Angel is still cursed, but like Wesley said, it's very unlikely that Angel will never experience a Moment of Pure Happiness again.

I think that you're probably right. I seriously doubt that, even with Buffy, he will ever experience that ever again. At least to my way of thinking, there can only be one single moment that would qualify, that every other experience in Angel's lifetime can be compared to, but can never quite be equaled. And, get ready for this, (a drum roll might be appropriate at this moment) IT WASN'T BUFFY THAT GAVE IT TO HIM. Certainly, she made it possible for Angel to experience that one moment, but the pure happiness didn't come from the one particular girl as much as it came from Angel's finally realizing that, finally after all of his centuries of existence, someone could love him totally and completely, with no conditions, no requirements, and no price (at least, as far as he knew at that moment) to have to be paid for the experience.

Remember, love is something that Angel had never, ever, experienced before that moment. Okay, his little sister loved him, but it was never stated that he loved her in return, and, even if he did, it almost certainly wasn't anything to compare to what he felt for Buffy. The closest thing that he had ever experienced before that moment, as far as we know, was his relationship with Darla, which was, obviously, passionate, but I feel pretty safe in saying that there wasn't any tenderness connected with it. By his own confession, Angel had "known lots of bad girls." Buffy was most likely the first good girl he had ever associated with, barring his assorted victims over the years.

Angel's moment of true v v happiness was the result of finally realizing that, even though he was a monster, responsible for more death, pain, and heartbreak than any other person in history, he could be loved, not because he deserved it, not because he earned it, but simply because someone chose to love him. Certainly, that person was Buffy. But it wasn't as much the person as it was the act itself.

Now all of the Bangels present may feel free to organize the lynch mob, but, I warn you all, I won't go down without a fight. And I bite.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

This has irked me for years.

As said above, the curse seems to be a part of the spell, so unless they changed the spell, the curse is still a part of it, as shown in season 2 & 4 of Angel. But what bothers me is; was that a part of the design? Did the gypsys put it in there to punish him, to make sure he could never be happy, or was it a flaw? Something they couldn't help?

I've wondered this for years.

 

[white avenger]

As said above, the curse seems to be a part of the spell, so unless they changed the spell, the curse is still a part of it, as shown in season 2 & 4 of Angel. But what bothers me is; was that a part of the design? Did the gypsys put it in there to punish him, to make sure he could never be happy, or was it a flaw? Something they couldn't help?

I think that the "escape clause" in Angel's curse was something like the so called "necessary impurity" in Green Lantern's ring that makes it ineffective against anything yellow in color. The spell that the Gypsies used was imperfect because they (as opposed to the cave demon who returned Spike's soul) couldn't generate or control magic strong enough to make a permanent change. Quite possibly they expected the newly re-souled Angelus to destroy himself in some fashion because of the sudden onrush of guilt, shame, and self loathing that he felt over all of the pain, suffering, humiliation, and death that he, as a vampire (and even possibly as Liam, given what little that we ever saw of him) was responsible for. The curse probably wasn't supposed to have to last anywhere near as long as it actually did. Once the Gypsies realized that Angel was either too strong of character, or too frightened of hell, to take his own life, take your pick which, they realized that they were going to have to set up a team to keep track of Angel and make sure that he never did achieve that moment of perfect happiness, thus prolonging Angelus' (now calling himself Angel) suffering.

Just think, Angel was the only vampire in the world with his own personal "Watcher."

 

[Dagenspear]

It was always my impression that Angel's pain and guilt kept his soul teathered to his dead body.

 

[david4wt]

Another question: couldn't someone rewrite the spell taking out the curse part? Maybe Willow in season 5 or someone else on Angel.

 

[white avenger]

Another question: couldn't someone rewrite the spell taking out the curse part? Maybe Willow in season 5 or someone else on Angel.

As far as I know, that has never been tried. Whenever Angel lost his soul, the existing spell was pretty much repeated, including the escape clause. Maybe Willow, at the peak of her power, could have created a new, more powerful variant of the original spell or even write a totally new spell that didn't contain the happiness clause. For that matter, Angel could take a page from Spike's book, travel to Africa, undergo the trials and torture just like Spike did, and get the real deal, no conditions, limitations, or escape clauses. Or, he could go whole hog and try to have his actual humanity restored.We'll never know for sure now, though, because of Season 9, Witch Willow has been replaced with Plain Ol' Human Willow, which she ain't happy about, and magic itself is just about a total thing of he past.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

I always thought it was such a big lost opportunity that it's never spoken about on the show, how to create a better spell, or use the existing spell on other vampires(maybe it was created for Angel alone, but a mention would have been nice). No character saying "Can't we use the re-soul spell? No? Only works on Angel? Are there more spells? Could we try to find one?"

 

[Willow My Love]

What Willow did was re-curse him. She used to same gypsy curse used on him before. That's how he got his soul back.

I think it would have been interesting to find a way to make his soul permanent though. Through the PTB or a spell or something.

 

[SlayerFest]

But that particular spell...is the curse...right?

 

[Jules]

Yea, that spell is still the curse.

I think that you're probably right. I seriously doubt that, even with Buffy, he will ever experience that ever again. At least to my way of thinking, there can only be one single moment that would qualify, that every other experience in Angel's lifetime can be compared to, but can never quite be equaled. And, get ready for this, (a drum roll might be appropriate at this moment) IT WASN'T BUFFY THAT GAVE IT TO HIM. Certainly, she made it possible for Angel to experience that one moment, but the pure happiness didn't come from the one particular girl as much as it came from Angel's finally realizing that, finally after all of his centuries of existence, someone could love him totally and completely, with no conditions, no requirements, and no price (at least, as far as he knew at that moment) to have to be paid for the experience.

Remember, love is something that Angel had never, ever, experienced before that moment. Okay, his little sister loved him, but it was never stated that he loved her in return, and, even if he did, it almost certainly wasn't anything to compare to what he felt for Buffy. The closest thing that he had ever experienced before that moment, as far as we know, was his relationship with Darla, which was, obviously, passionate, but I feel pretty safe in saying that there wasn't any tenderness connected with it. By his own confession, Angel had "known lots of bad girls." Buffy was most likely the first good girl he had ever associated with, barring his assorted victims over the years.

Angel's moment of true v v happiness was the result of finally realizing that, even though he was a monster, responsible for more death, pain, and heartbreak than any other person in history, he could be loved, not because he deserved it, not because he earned it, but simply because someone chose to love him. Certainly, that person was Buffy. But it wasn't as much the person as it was the act itself.

Now all of the Bangels present may feel free to organize the lynch mob, but, I warn you all, I won't go down without a fight. And I bite.

I'm a Bangel but I'm not going to disagree with you 🙂 I also think that Angel would never be able to find true happiness again, mainly because of the guilt. Even if he was with Buffy there's always going to be that overwhelming guilt that what there doing could turn him into Angelus and result in a number of people being killed.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

IT WASN'T BUFFY THAT GAVE IT TO HIM. Certainly, she made it possible for Angel to experience that one moment, but the pure happiness didn't come from the one particular girl as much as it came from Angel's finally realizing that

I don't see the point of your point, I kinda agree with you, but it couldn't have been with anyone but Buffy, so either way it's still because he was with Buffy.

And it can happen again, the effects of happiness are artificially stirred in him with drugs in Season 1, and he looses his soul till they wear off.
If he could be with Buffy, he would be as happy again, and the same thing could happen. If happiness could be created artificially reached, there's no reason he couldn't get there naturally again.

And actually it's done again in Season 4 of Angel, where he's tricked into dreaming he was happy and loses his soul.

I also agree with the others that said Willow, just redid the curse, which full reactivated it again. By the time she had the power to do something different Angel wasn't in her everyday life so it kinda seems like she wouldn't have thought about it. Similar to Amy, she only kinda realised she could help her randomly, when she could have helped her for awhile, and then she started to spiral pretty bad.
Then when she re-souled Angel in Season 4, she wouldn't have had to confidence to mess with the spell, it was probably a relief that it was the first spell she'd done, no real danger.

I'm not sure id the circumstances of the curse are a mistake though, the Gyspys cursed Angelus so he would feel bad, if he could be happy what was the point of the curse.

WA I wouldn't be to quick to assume there's no "Escape clause" with Spike's soul. Spikes soul was restored by a demon. Possibly if you look at the evidence a vengeance demon.
From Season 7 "Selfless":

D'HOFFRYN:
I figured I'd be hearing from you soon. The flaying of Warren Meers? Oh, truly inspired. That was water cooler vengeance. Lloyd has a sketch of it on his wall.

Since there are those sketches on the wall of the demon that restored Spikes Soul, sounds like Lloyd restored spikes soul.
Demons don't really mix, and with these demons discussing it, one could assume maybe Llyod is some kinda vengeance demon. Maybe if Lloyd dies, spikes soul goes to, or if something (like Anya's necklace) of Lloys is destroyed Spikes soul is gone.

Plus remember how Spike went about getting his soul, before he left he said something about "How he was gonna teach her a lesson" - obviously talking about Buffy, In my opinion he wanted to prove that she could love him, and that the only thing in the way was Spike not having a soul - That sounds live vengeance to me.

In fact, maybe thats how he found out about Lloyd, he could have asked Hallie, they'd met up again earlier that season, he calls her up wants some vengeance, she specialises in children, so she points him to some kinda vengeance demon for demons.