Angel: "Spike Doesn't Care About Anyone But Himself"

[Agent Z]

This line from Angel in "Hell Bound" bugs me a lot. Ignoring the fact that Spike at this time has a soul just like Angel, Angel spent a long time with Spike and saw how devoted he was to Drusilla. He saw it again when he reverted back to Angelus on Buffy. Hell, he mocked SPike for his romantic notions as Angelus. So where does he get this idea that Spike is incapable of caring about anyone but himself?

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Because every time Spike 'cared' for someone in the past it was for self-affirmation or personal benefit.

 

[gite63]

Bickering and natural jealousy... he's being twelve again.

FRED
And Buffy.

EVE
Well, this is getting interesting.

ANGEL
(rolls his eyes)
You're right. He does care about Buffy. So, where do you think he's gonna run off to as soon as his fresh, new feet hit the ground?

FRED
Is that what this is about? You're afraid he's gonna come back and try to get with your ex again?'

 

[thetopher]

Valid pov, at least from Angel's perspective. Spike is always really possessive of those he 'cares' for- soul or no.

 

[bespangeled]

This line from Angel in "Hell Bound" bugs me a lot. Ignoring the fact that Spike at this time has a soul just like Angel, Angel spent a long time with Spike and saw how devoted he was to Drusilla. He saw it again when he reverted back to Angelus on Buffy. Hell, he mocked SPike for his romantic notions as Angelus. So where does he get this idea that Spike is incapable of caring about anyone but himself?

The last time he actually saw Spike was season 3 - the last time he smelled Spike, he turned into a petulant 12 year old. Of course, Spike saved his life when Angel went off to grandstand against a necromancer.

Because every time Spike 'cared' for someone in the past it was for self-affirmation or personal benefit.

Isn't that the norm for an unsouled demon? To be honest, it's also the norm for most souled humans, and for Angel. Redemption is validation that you have paid for your sins - and Angel uses his crew for both self-affirmation and personal benefit.

 

[GoSpuffy]

everyone talks about how Spike is jealous of Angel but it goes both ways. Angel probably only showed interest in Dru at all in order to piss off Spike.

 

[gite63]

The last time he actually saw Spike was season 3 - the last time he smelled Spike, he turned into a petulant 12 year old. Of course, Spike saved his life when Angel went off to grandstand against a necromancer.

Yeah, it's quite natural the bickering. We, the viewers, and Buffy knew about Spike's journey; Angel didn't and it's hard to come to terms that Spike was then a Champion like him. The last time they had seen each other, Spike was in charge of a torture session - and the torturee was him!

They always had this rivalry, and adding to the mix Buffy, they both turn twelve.

What I don't understand and don't accept is Twangel saying to Buffy that Spike can't be trusted - after the ending of S5, and seeing him working with his son, what Angel said made no sense.

 

[Kana]

Yeah it's hardly a fair for Angel to say that. Spike's role in Season 7 of BtVS isn't really all that different from Angel's role for the first three seasons. Fred wanting to give Spike a chance isn't really all that different from people giving Angel a chance when he was starting out the road to heroism. I'd agree it's mainly jealousy and rivalry motivating Angel's words here.

 

[gite63]

Yeah it's hardly a fair for Angel to say that. Spike's role in Season 7 of BtVS isn't really all that different from Angel's role for the first three seasons. Fred wanting to give Spike a chance isn't really all that different from people giving Angel a chance when he was starting out the road to heroism. I'd agree it's mainly jealousy and rivalry motivating Angel's words here.

And I want to correct myself - Angel did know about Spike dying to save the world, but it's quite different to hear about it and to see the complete journey. And with the story between them, it's "human" nature that Angel is a little jealous and say things like that...

 

[white avenger]

Quite simply, I think that Angel has spent so much time looking down on Spike (disregarding the obvious height differences) that he has never actually seen him. Spike is the one who stayed with and protected Dru, even after she gave him numerous reasons to leave her. Spike is the one who stayed in Sunnydale and protected Dawn and Buffy's friends between Seasons 5 and 6, even though Xander, at least, never ever really trusted him or believed his motives. Angel has felt contempt for him ever since Dru first brought "Willy" home to meet the family, and that contempt nearly cost him his life in Season 5 "Destiny," when he totally underestimated Spike, as usual, and almost got staked for his stupidity.

Most likely, because Angelus never cared about anything but himself and never served anyone's interests but his own, and always saw Spike as just some young pup trying to be like his granddaddy, Angel has retained that image, and never bothered to notice that that isn't what Spike is anymore.