Angel's cameo unsatisfying?

C

Cookie Dough

Prophecy Girl
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
Messages
208
Age
39
When I saw Angel there it was great because Buffy and him fell back into place with how they'd been the previous seasons, but again a lack of continuity and characterization set in and by the time they were standing side by side in the graveyard something felt off. I know Buffy had the romance with Spike but she also had one with Riley and Buffy and Angel are soulmates so it seems like they shouldn't have parted like they did because it just wasn't in character.
Also, Buffy told Angel she didn't want to be with anyone but then she went to visit Spike and told him she loved him later on. So why would she tell Angel she was cookie dough and then go to Spike? That's contradicting herself. I think maybe this has to do with the last episode squeezing everything together because of timing, like she would have told Angel she wanted to enjoy her freedom, after she got the idea to share the power (it hadn't happened yet when they met) but Angel had to come back before all that happened so the plot would include the amulet.
But overall, did you feel like Angel's last scene on BtVS was unsatisfying?
 
It was kind of pointless except for the lead-in to Buffy's cookie dough speech...

Joss said he basically did it for the fans...
 
Yeah, I wasn't a big fan of the ending, partly due to Angel's appearance. He took focus off the main characters, along with the potentials. The whole scene seemed quite awkward, like there was nothing to say/could say about their relationship. Although I guess it was important that Angel found out about the Buffy/Spike relationship, perhaps that could have been a story arc earlier on in the season.
 
I thought it was a little redundant... I mean, he ALWAYS shows up when shes in a "relationship" with another guy, and makes it known that he doesn't like him... But I think it was necessary only for the fact that it made Buffy admit that she's at a time in her life where shes not ready to settle down with a stable guy, which is something shes been looking for from the beginning.
 
I didn't think it was at all disappointing! I loved the whole scene, mostly because Angel being petty is my favorite Angel. I really loved that the relationship was left so open, that there is a possibility there for a relationship, later on, but it's not absolutely certain either. And I don't think it was inappropriate for him to show up right then either. they could not have ended the show without Angel. it would have been far more jarring if they had ended Buffy without having him guest. I love both Buffy's scene with Angel, and the one with Spike (where they stand across the room from each other, then cut) simply because they were so open ended. Joss never completely discounted either Spuffy or Bangel in this episode, which shows his incredible respect for the fans. But as a pseudo-resolution for the Buffy-Angel relationship, the scene was incredibly satisfying, because it never discounts the idea that they may be able to be together later, but it never guarantees it either.

The only thing that bothered me about Angel's return to Sunnydale was the way he got hold of the amulet and the information. It seemed very cheap and "deus-ex-machina" to have Lilah simply hand Angel the best hope for the world's survival.
 
Angel's my favorite character. There's no way Buffy could have ended without him, I just thought the writing for his scenes wasn't very good. If anything it brought up new questions rather than a sense of closure.
 
This scene at first annoyed me, I mean I know Buffy was the love of Angels life and vice versa but Buffy was kind of seeing spike and Angel was in love with Cordelia, supposedly they should have moved on, i dont think they should have kissed, i felt like Angel was cheating on cordy, even though i know he wasn't because they won't going out, heck they hadn't even kissed but still i cant help what i feel lol
 
Cookie Dough said:
When I saw Angel there it was great because Buffy and him fell back into place with how they'd been the previous seasons, but again a lack of continuity and characterization set in and by the time they were standing side by side in the graveyard something felt off. I know Buffy had the romance with Spike but she also had one with Riley and Buffy and Angel are soulmates so it seems like they shouldn't have parted like they did because it just wasn't in character.
Also, Buffy told Angel she didn't want to be with anyone but then she went to visit Spike and told him she loved him later on. So why would she tell Angel she was cookie dough and then go to Spike? That's contradicting herself. I think maybe this has to do with the last episode squeezing everything together because of timing, like she would have told Angel she wanted to enjoy her freedom, after she got the idea to share the power (it hadn't happened yet when they met) but Angel had to come back before all that happened so the plot would include the amulet.
But overall, did you feel like Angel's last scene on BtVS was unsatisfying?
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I believe that Angel and Buffy's last meeting was meant to be unsatisfying. Let's face it. Their relationship was not what it had used to be. Too much had happened over the years for it to be the same. At first, I never understood why Angel went running all the way to Sunnydale to be by Buffy's side, after what happened to Cordelia and Connor. Unless this was his way of ignoring his own personal problems.

And what is wrong with Buffy wanting to enjoy her freedom? It would not have worked for Buffy to end up with Angel, let alone anyone else, at the end. Buffy was only 22 years old at the time. There was no need for her to go walking into the sunset with some guy at her side. She's more than that. So is anyone else.
 
C
Cordelia
[No message]
LadyLavinia said:
I believe that Angel and Buffy's last meeting was meant to be unsatisfying. Let's face it. Their relationship was not what it had used to be.
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There's no proof in that statement. They picked up where they'd left off being able to have a conversation and the graveyard was symbolic of them being where they were from the beginning. Joss even said that the graveyard was the perfect place for them to be because it's where they've always been with each other.

ladylavinia said:
At first, I never understood why Angel went running all the way to Sunnydale to be by Buffy's side, after what happened to Cordelia and Connor. Unless this was his way of ignoring his own personal problems.
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That only makes it sound like you have a vendata against Angel. Angel was brought on because BtVS was ending and Angel was so much a part of Buffy's life and of the show that Joss and Sarah thought it was important the he came back.

ladylavinia said:
And what is wrong with Buffy wanting to enjoy her freedom? It would not have worked for Buffy to end up with Angel, let alone anyone else, at the end. Buffy was only 22 years old at the time. There was no need for her to go walking into the sunset with some guy at her side. She's more than that. So is anyone else.
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Yea I never said anything about that... I was talking about Angel..
 
Cookie Dough said:
Angel was brought on because BtVS was ending and Angel was so much a part of Buffy's life and of the show that Joss and Sarah thought it was important the he came back.
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Actually, if you watch the commentary and the featurettes on the S7 DVD's, it's apparent that Joss brought Angel back for the fans, not for his own enjoyment. Joss stated something along the lines that it was a hassle to fit that scene in because he had to have Buffy sleeping with Spike that very night.

In some ways to me, it felt as though Joss ignored the storyline just to appease the fans because he knew there would be backlash if he didn't...
 
Cordelia said:
Actually, if you watch the commentary and the featurettes on the S7 DVD's, it's apparent that Joss brought Angel back for the fans, not for his own enjoyment. Joss stated something along the lines that it was a hassle to fit that scene in because he had to have Buffy sleeping with Spike that very night.
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I have. I never said Joss brought him back for his enjoyment. I didn't think Joss just brought him back to ogle him or anything. He and Sarah thought it was important for him to come back for the Finale. Whether or not you like him he was an important part of the show up until the end and was part of the main cast when the show was in its prime.


He never said anything about backlash so I'm taking that only as an unsupported opinion.
 
I was completely satisfyed with the cameo by angel. she told him she wasn't ready to settle down, and if you remember at the end, when buffy told spike she loved him, he told it like it is "no you don't". buffy said that for spike, and to give him something to hold onto as he basically sacrificed his life.

as for angel being in her life at that time...he has always been her second line of defence. whenever she needed him, he would be there. and vice versa. that's what the whole buffy/angel relationship was. she needed a second form of defence and that's what she got from angel.

it may be my love for the B/A relationship thats putting this next statement, but at the end, she was like...i can't remember exactly, but something along the lines of "i used to....think of the future." and angel was like, i'll be waiting or something like that. it kind of showed that, no matter who they were with, or regardless of who they were spending the night with that night, they would always belong to each other.

all in all, i liked his cameo, and thought it was great. maybe joss was doing it just for the fans....but thats what buffy is all about right? the fans?

-randi-
 
I thought that it was a perfect cameo. i think that he was in it for the perfect amount of time and i couldn't ask for more. i was just so he could give her the amulet and also something to lead into the cookie dough speech. less is more!
 
celtic_beauty said:
it may be my love for the B/A relationship thats putting this next statement, but at the end, she was like...i can't remember exactly, but something along the lines of "i used to....think of the future." and angel was like, i'll be waiting or something like that. it kind of showed that, no matter who they were with, or regardless of who they were spending the night with that night, they would always belong to each other.

all in all, i liked his cameo, and thought it was great. maybe joss was doing it just for the fans....but thats what buffy is all about right? the fans?

-randi-
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Angel asked if she knows who she wants to be with when she's done baking and she said "I don't think that far ahead...that's kind of the point" so Angel give her the amulet and says to make sure he doesn't have to use the 2nd front and walks away and Buffy says "Angel! I do...sometimes think that far ahead." :rose2: And that part makes me cry and I have NO idea why. but anyway you're right. They've said It's all about the fans 🙂
 
There's no proof in that statement. They picked up where they'd left off being able to have a conversation and the graveyard was symbolic of them being where they were from the beginning.
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Someone pointed out that it was interesting that right after Buffy and Angel kissed as if nothing had changed, Buffy began to emotionally pull away from Angel. And I noticed it too.

and if you remember at the end, when buffy told spike she loved him, he told it like it is "no you don't". buffy said that for spike, and to give him something to hold onto as he basically sacrificed his life.
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A lot of the B/A fans believe this. A lot of the B/S fans believe that Buffy was telling the truth when she told Spike that she loved him. Frankly, I believe there is no clear answer to this scene. I suspect Whedon left it open to the interpretation of the fans.
 
She pulled away when he said he was going to stay there. Just like she told him to go away when Riley was in her life.
 
A lot of the B/A fans believe this. A lot of the B/S fans believe that Buffy was telling the truth when she told Spike that she loved him. Frankly, I believe there is no clear answer to this scene. I suspect Whedon left it open to the interpretation of the fans.
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again i say, buffy is all about the fans. that's they reason we all love buffy, it was a fan based show.

thats what was great about the ending of the show too....it gave B/A fans something to love, and it gave Spuffy fans something to love. it's all good...! :nibble6:
 
Cookie Dough said:
She pulled away when he said he was going to stay there. Just like she told him to go away when Riley was in her life.
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But what does this mean?


again i say, buffy is all about the fans. that's they reason we all love buffy, it was a fan based show.

thats what was great about the ending of the show too....it gave B/A fans something to love, and it gave Spuffy fans something to love. it's all good...!
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Precisely.
 
LadyLavinia said:
But what does this mean?


It means that she pulled away for Riley but looking back she didn't even love Riley all the way so we can't use that as a telling sign that she loved Spike or doesn't love Angel.
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