Angel's Moment Of True Happiness In Season 9

[white avenger]

Assuming that the additional powers that Buffy and Angel disappear with the defeat of Twilight, do you retention of Angel's soul will once more depend on avoiding the "moment of true happiness" clause, putting him and Buffy back in the forbidden lovers category once more? And, if Angel's soul actually did become lost, without magic, how, if at all, could it be restored?

 

[Kean]

1) If the clause still stands, I think it is utterly beyond Angel to achieve a moment of perfect happiness. I just don't believe him to be emotionally capable of it. given all that has happened.

2) If magic has been banished, as we have been led to believe, than Angel achieving a moment of true happiness won't matter because magic will be required for it to be removed. No magic, no removal.

3) If, inexplicably, the curse still stands and he miraculously achieves perfect happiness, then Angel would be gone and Angelus would resume permanent residence. Arguably there is the option of the demon Spike sought out but I sincerely doubt Angelus seeking out that particular demon's assistance.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

No no no no.. people.. hello?? mcfly?? "No magic, no removal." it was magic that GAVE him his soul again.. and it was magic that kept the soul in place.. no magic means no soul. Magic just didnt remove the soul at happy-face-time, it gave it to him. Otherwise Angel was soulless before the curse and with no 'cursed with a soul' (as the curse was in essence a living thing- it was not in a vacuum) if it left with magic, then Angels soul left with it.

 

[Harley]

I was thinking the same thing...magic was keeping Angels soul in place. Shouldnt it be gone now?
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[Kean]

No no no no.. people.. hello?? mcfly?? "No magic, no removal." it was magic that GAVE him his soul again.. and it was magic that kept the soul in place.. no magic means no soul. Magic just didnt remove the soul at happy-face-time, it gave it to him. Otherwise Angel was soulless before the curse and with no 'cursed with a soul' (as the curse was in essence a living thing- it was not in a vacuum) if it left with magic, then Angels soul left with it.

Anything that magic has created/done in the world stays put. For example, the slayers that are already called will remain slayers. However, no further slayers will be called because magic is gone.

Angel has his soul. That's done. Any removal of it, should be a mute point in this new world.

Basically, apply the Oracles line to Angel to everything magic involved:

What is done cannot be undone...

...and now, what is not yet done, won't be.

 

[white avenger]

Angel has his soul. That's done. Any removal of it, should be a mute point in this new world.

Basically, apply the Oracles line to Angel to everything magic involved:

What is done cannot be undone...

...and now, what is not yet done, won't be.

(Just to play devil's advocate here, since I can't see any actual way that the question could be answered definitely either way without or until the situation actually occurring)

What we get down to, however isn't the creation of new magic, but simply the activation of a spell already in place, or the countermanding of a spell already in use, depending on your interpretation. No NEW magic may exist in Buffy's universe, but, obviously, since the current Slayers remain empowered the souls of both Spike and Angel remain intact, magic already in place is still in effect. Ultimately, this is a question of whether Angel losing his soul is an act of new magic or simply the result of magic already in place.

I do agree, however, that the question may never be put to the test, since perfect happiness now appears to be something that Angel will almost certainly never again achieve.

 

[Daniel Osbourne]

I think there's confusion on how the soul-magic works. Spike got his soul back permanently. The spell was done. He got his soul. The spell is over. Therefore, he's got it forever.

Angel is more complicated. There isn't any ongoing magic on keeping the soul. There's only ongoing magic on losing it. Therefore, it's clear that he will keep his soul in normal circumstances. It's not clear whether the magic is somehow upheld or only needs to be done once. Since I believe that all magic in the Buffyverse is only performed and not maintained (otherwise, all the Slayers activated in Chosen would probably lose their powers when the Scythe was broken), I believe that Angel can still lose his soul and would then be Angelus permanently. However, after what's happened it would be harder than ever to ever give him true happiness. And I don't think Buffy is about to jump into bed with him.

Also, just a note on my above theory: I also believe that the idea of magic not needing to be maintained will mean that the memories of Dawn will not fade, as some have suggested. If this were the case, then the memories should have faded the moment the last of the monks died in No Place Like Home. The memories are there and they're not going anywhere!

 

[AndrewCrossett]

No magic is needed to keep Angel's soul in place now that he has it, any more than anyone else needs magic to keep their soul inside them.

The curse can't take effect because it would require a pro-active magical event, and those can't happen anymore.

But yeah... a moment of true happiness for Angel is not gonna happen anytime soon.