Angelus: obsessed or in love?

[PrincessBuffy16]

Angelus is an intersting person. He tortured everyone, but especially the one who made him feel like a human. Angel loved Buffy, he never stopped and never will, and that is a fact. But did Angelus loved her or he was just obsessed with her? My opinion.. he loved her. But that bugged him. He knew how Angel loved her, and that feeling was still in him. He tried to fight it, he tried to hurt her, but he couldn't. Or he didn't want to. I think he loved her so much, and that feeling drove him mad.. he was so obsessed with destroying that feeling, and that feeling grew inside of him everytime he touched her again.

Thoughts?

 

[faeriegrrl27]

I've always thought there was a little more to his feelings for Buffy than just obsession. I think the episode Passion really speaks to that. He feels passionately for her... I'm not sure he's in love with her... but Angel has said that Angelus is always in him, so wouldn't that apply for Angel being always in Angelus? I think Angel's love was there and it kind of seeped through to Angelus. So Angelus wasn't necessarily feeling it, but it existed; he knew it was there... if that makes any sense at all.

 

[Eleftheria]

Wow! You create very interesting topics girl!

Well Angelus is indeed a very interesting character!He is dark,evil, sadistic, master of psychological torture, sarcastic, sexy :hehe: (or is it David with his leather clothes that makes me feel that way!lol).

Angelus is the darkest aspect of Angel.I think every vampire without a soul has some aspects of the human character it used to be but it is darker and more evil now!I mean Liam was a womaniser and Angelus combined lust and blood drinking.

So, about Buffy. I am not sure he loved her. I don't think any vampire without a soul is capable of love. But i am not sure he hated her either. In my mind, he certainly had an obsession for her.I mean she is a petite,beautiful,blondie who happens to kick his ass every now and then cause she is the Slayer.And more importantly Angel, that is Angelus' vampire body with a soul and memories of both Liam and Angelus(so Angel is a different personality from Liam) loved her more than his life, I think Angelus was bothered by that fact cause he considers love a human slavery or sth pathetic! He never loved Darla,for example, despite the fact they spent 150 years together!

I think he is obsessed with her, he may have passion or lust for Buffy(kiss and threw her to the wall in Innocence),he would like to see her suffer but in the end...he wouldn;t kill her if he had the chance!
I think he would probably drink her blood and then turn her.Imagine vamp-Buffy and Angelus together...They would probably be more lethal than any other vampire couple!

I like "I only have eyes for you" so much because being posessed by a ghost, Angelus is unable to resist and kisses Buffy very passionately and tenderly.When the kiss ends, he looks at her but he doesn't push her away immediately...does this mean anything?did he like it?
And i would very much like to see what would happen if Angelus(season 4) met Buffy...now that would be interesting!

 

[white avenger]

If you can accept as fact that Angel and Angelus are, in fact, two separate entities, then, no, Angelus did not love Buffy. In fact, he hated her, simply because of the fact that Angel did love her. He tried everything that he could think of to destroy any feelings that Buffy and Angel had shared, He terrorized her friends, tortured the closest thing to a father that she had, and toyed with her like a cat with a mouse. Angelus went so far as to attempt to destroy the world, a purely suicidal act, since he would have been destroyed with it, simply because it was Buffy's sworn duty to protect it. Angelus was a creature of pure evil, whose only emotion was hatred, and whose only desire was to torture, humiliate, and kill anyone who came under his power.

So, no, Angelus did not, in any way, love Buffy.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Hmmm.... I don't think it's a fact that Angel will always love Buffy, because people change, but that's another topic.

I don't think Angelus could love. He killed his family ruthlessly, and would probably have loed to torture Buffy to death. If he felt any kind of affection for her, I think it was to weak to qualify as love. I do believe that he was very fascinated with her tough.

don't think any vampire without a soul is capable of love.

I think he is obsessed with her, he may have passion or lust for Buffy(kiss and threw her to the wall in Innocence),he would like to see her suffer but in the end...he wouldn;t kill her if he had the chance!
I think he would probably drink her blood and then turn her.Imagine vamp-Buffy and Angelus together...They would probably be more lethal than any other vampire couple!

I don't think he would want her around so she could possible remind him of how he used to love her. Either she would tease him, or just by existing she would remind of that love.

Also, there's a chance she would be stronger than him and be able to easily beat him in a fight.

Actually, he might turn her, let her roam free, then put a soul in her to make her insane.

And about Angelus and Angel being different entities, that thought never sat well with me.

Angelus is Angel minus the conscience and Angel is Angelus with a conscience. But it's hard to say they're not different enough to be considered to different people, and therefor the name-change is the easier way to describe them. Just like people who grow braintomours can seem to have a completely different personality(in theory, I don't know of a case like that, just seen it on TV), they're still the same people. Yet not, because "they" still have the basics in common.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Oh, I love that kiss in I Only Have Eyes For You, too. How he kisses her, and when ghost is not in him anymore, she still looks at her, and holds her.. that is, well I think I'll never forget that.

 

[Emzzie]

I one hundred percent believe that Angelus did not love Buffy. In "I only have eyes for you" I think he did not push her away at first because he was in shock. After, we see him scrubbing his skin off. He was completley disgusted that they kissed. Angelus was too evil to ever love someone. He could not even love Darla, who was a vampire like him. Angelus may be part of Angel, but when he is Angelus I think the evil in him takes over all humanity that may be left. Joss Whedon even says that Angelus did not love Buffy because there was some fan speculation. We were to see Angel and Angelus as two seperate people and to have such a major connection between them like that would be inconsistant. I think that Angelus was obsessed with Buffy. Instead of killing her, he wants to toy with her, torture her and everything she loves. He wants her to die slow and painful. He hates her guts because when he has his soul, he loves her. Having her around is a reminder that he had a soul and his humanity back for a time, and that bugs the hell out of him.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

You know that I'm going to disagree with you, but I respect your opinion 😀

And about Angelus washing his face off after kissing Buffy, well he's a good actor. But when he say's that it was disgusting, I think he doesn't belive himself 😉

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Maybe he does love her, and that's why he feels disgusting? Beause he doesn't wanna love her.

Okay, I don't believe that, but I admit the possibility.

 

[white avenger]

Speaking of the Buffy/Angelus kiss in this episode just gave mr an image superimposed from "Something Blue," with Angelus spitting and muttering, "Buffy lips! Lips of Buffy."

(Sorry, folks, that's just the way my mind works)

 

[TheBigBad]

No way. I believe Angelus was never in love with anything. He even admitted to not loving Darla, when he spent decades of years with her. I think that when you become a vampire, there's just no soul there, especially for Angelus, as he was the most heartless being in the Buffyverse. But in the Angel series, he did befriend a star-crossed couple who seemed to be very well in love, but that is probably because love is blind and they just couldn't see what they really had become. To a demon, all that matters is yourself.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

No way. I believe Angelus was never in love with anything. He even admitted to not loving Darla, when he spent decades of years with her. I think that when you become a vampire, there's just no soul there, especially for Angelus, as he was the most heartless being in the Buffyverse. But in the Angel series, he did befriend a star-crossed couple who seemed to be very well in love, but that is probably because love is blind and they just couldn't see what they really had become. To a demon, all that matters is yourself.

So they only thought they loved each other for over a century? Like Spike did Drusilla?

I'm sorry, you're entitled to your opinion, I just find it hard to grasp the fact that some people can call what Spike felt for Buffy "not love" because he didn't have a soul. Call it a demon filthy love if you want, but it's some kind of love.

 

[white avenger]

I don't think that all vampires are incapable of love or loyalty, but Angelus certainly was. Both he and Darla admitted on several different occasions that they never felt love for each other. At the very most, they were in lust with each other. Love never entered into their relationship or any other that Angelus had. Yes, Spike could love, and he could be loyal to those who he considered friends. To Angelus, however, concepts like love and loyalty were completely foreign.

 

[faeriegrrl27]

For one thing, I fully believe that a soulless vampire can love. Joss Whedon said the best part about Spike/Dru was that they *did* love each other. So obviously that's possible. And I think Spike's feelings for Buffy were legitimate.

I do not think Angelus is incapable of love... just that there's an overlap. There are a lot of books about people getting memories and then the memories go away, but I always thought there'd be a memory of the memory. I think the same applies in this case. Angel is in Angelus. Of course, they're separate, but they know that the other is there. So I think Angelus has the feeling of feeling for Buffy. There's a degree of separation which is why I think Angelus doesn't love her, but I think he feels love for her. I know that didn't make much sense.... sorry.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

No I get it, there might be a echo of love in Angelus. He might not feel love, but he can sense how it used to be there. A memory of a memory.

 

[anyatara]

I think this is a pretty complicated question, because I think he was obsessed because he was in love. I think I can pretty safely say Angelus didn't feel any love for Buffy (Think back to when he's first lost his soul, and the Judge says 'There's no humanity in him' yet in Spike and Dru he classes their love as humanity) but I think remembering that he'd been in love with Buffy there was maybe a little undying lust there, which is possibly why he went out of his way to keep torturing Buffy and her friends, or attempting to at least, because whereas, yes, that was his way; torture and what not, I don't think he'd have kept her alive that long, had she been anyone else. I don't think all of his feelings were connected with his soul, so I do think he still felt something for Buffy, yes, but not love (I'm pretty sure this'll make no sense to anyone else, but I understand myself with perfect clarity).

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Unlike you people who all have really good points and opinions and think with you brain which is good, I have this tendency to think with my heart. But this is one thing I hate, when someone says Joss said he didn't love her. I don't think that is correct just because he said it. Ok, he created the show, and I thank him for that every day, but can his words replace what you saw in one scene, or felt. I mean, for example, if Joss now come out and say that Buffy never loved Spike, would you Spuffyers accept it. Could that replace everything you felt when you saw their scenes. That's like me, I saw something, I felt something and nothing can replace it 😀

 

[Flannen]

I don't think this is as simple 'did he' or 'didn't love' her. The references to the fact he didn't love Darla, therefore Angelus couldn't have loved Buffy don't sit very well with me. Darla was not Buffy. Just because they spent centuries together doesn't mean they should have fallen in love and because they didn't Angelus isn't capable of love.

Angel was always fighting with Angelus and Angelus was always fighting with Angel. The kiss in 'I Only Have Eyes For You' has always suggested that there are still feelings of love there for Angelus. As for scrubbing himself clean afterwards he was trying to cleanse himself of Angel. He had let Angel out during those moments with Buffy and that is what he was disgusted with, the fact he had let the 'man'(pire) within be stronger than the demon.

He certainly was obsessed with Buffy but I don't think it was an obsession that sprung from hate. Angelus thought that he would help defeat Angel if removed Buffy because Buffy helped to make Angel, the MAN that he grown into. If Angelus had no concept or feeling of love he never would have felt that Buffy was a threat that needed to be removed.

Angelus was 'in love' with Buffy because Angel was. They aren't two separate entities. Fighting against Angelus is part of Angel being Champion. It would be easy for him to give in to Angelus and stop fighting the good fight, but he doesn't, he will always strive to beat him.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

Unlike you people who all have really good points and opinions and think with you brain which is good, I have this tendency to think with my heart. But this is one thing I hate, when someone says Joss said he didn't love her. I don't think that is correct just because he said it. Ok, he created the show, and I thank him for that every day, but can his words replace what you saw in one scene, or felt. I mean, for example, if Joss now come out and say that Buffy never loved Spike, would you Spuffyers accept it. Could that replace everything you felt when you saw their scenes. That's like me, I saw something, I felt something and nothing can replace it 😀

If it helps, I heard that Joss once said there was no Faith & Buffy sexual subtext, but then apparently some fans proved him wrong by mentioning scenes or whatever and he later admitted there was subtext. So his interpretation isn't always perfect.

And there's the fact that in case he decides to "change" the characters, he can say that Angelus did love Buffy, to fit a new plot. Just because something meant something once, doesn't mean that that event can't mean something else later on.

Like I imagine it was like with Spike in the first scene he sees Buffy, in the Bronze in School Hard. I think I remember Marsters saying that he played it more sexual than the writers intended, because when the writers wrote that scene, they just planned for Spike to be a villain of the season. Later on tough, Spike became a love interest, and now writers can look back and say "That's when Spike fel in love" even tough that wasn't what was intended.

So one day, Joss might say "Angelus did love Buffy".

What I'm trying to say is that your interpretation (even tough unlikely according to most people posting in this thread), isn't wrong just because Joss said so. But it's his version that "counts" the most.

 

[anyatara]

Unlike you people who all have really good points and opinions and think with you brain which is good, I have this tendency to think with my heart. But this is one thing I hate, when someone says Joss said he didn't love her. I don't think that is correct just because he said it. Ok, he created the show, and I thank him for that every day, but can his words replace what you saw in one scene, or felt. I mean, for example, if Joss now come out and say that Buffy never loved Spike, would you Spuffyers accept it. Could that replace everything you felt when you saw their scenes. That's like me, I saw something, I felt something and nothing can replace it 😀

I think Buffy and Angel did love each other, that's not the point. We're talking about Angelus.

And as for the Spuffy comparison...I'm a diehard Spuffy fan, but I'm truly not sure I believe that Buffy ever did love Spike.