Angelus: pure evil?

[Chosen Enemy]

When the Judge tried to fry Angelus, he couldn't, because he was pure evil, he had no humanity in him at all. Umm... how? I mean, it seems that most vampires have some humanity in them. Even Drusilla. They love,they hate, they feel, they read, the jealous and so on. How come Angelus had none of those? How come when most if not all vampires have humanity in them, how come Angelus turned out with none?

 

[InsaneMystic]

I've said in another thread that the "humanity" The Judge measured seems pretty narrowly defined (or rather extremely broadly, depending on how you look at it). Come on, he fried Dalton on grounds that the guy liked to read...! I suppose that anything that makes you have fun and enjoyment other than single-minded focus on death, pain, and destruction shows up on TJ's "humandar"... and Angelus is very much single-minded in that regard - a pompous, world-hating "artist of torture" who's one enjoyment is to make others suffer in ingenious ways.

The real question is, seeing the bunch of demons and vampires running the whole spectrum of medium gray to black (especially AtS with its thriving demon community in LA doesn't nearly come off as consisting purely of Complete Monsters), how many vampires would have made it through TJ's touch? I know Joss once said pretty much all of the background fledglings would, but by now I doubt the statistic would have been that clear. A good share of them would burn, I'm pretty sure of that.

 

[Icarium]

How come Angelus had none of those?

Angel: "Gee, maybe he [The Judge] is broken"

The Judge was just a plot device to make Spike trust Angel. No need to put extra weight in the words of an idiot who thinks that liking books is the same as having some goodness in you.

 

[Skytteflickan88]

The judge thing was notnwell thought out, as stated above. I mean, angelus liked to draw and loved that ballet. But let's say that the writers meant love and affection. In that case, yes, angelus was absolut evil. Not sure why. Maybe his demon was extra wicked, liam was already a bit evil, coincidene, maybe the soul usually leaves a echo in vampires but for some reason left none in angelus.

I actually love that we have a character we can trully hate. He's evil, and we can laugh at him when he fails without feeling evil, since unlike the other characters, he has no nice side we'd have to consider when judginh him.

 

[ladydorotea]

All the rationalizing of which demon is eviller than another, and how level of evilness can be estimated judging from a single episode of one earlier season is , IMHO, not very reliable. Humanity does not mean goodness crystallized, it simply means adaptation to societal standards of humans. Angelus' demon might be less adept at enjoying /adapting to humanity's habits - because he/it is the demonic pride personified. It does not mean that a demon with more 'humane' set of habits is less evil. In fact I think that harboring residual humanity and still enjoying the killing/torturing of humans - in fact savoring it because of being aware of how much it is a deviation - might be considered more evil. Hating something that kills and eats you because you are food is a bit of like hating a great white shark. It is not really 'pure evil', it is just shark with all sharky standards attached. On other hand, a totally charismatic cannibal - who is quite conscious of what humanity is, is capable of caring for a lover or an ally, and is still savoring the perpetration from somewhat more 'humane' PoV - is, I think, a bit more evil and worthy of hate that that aforementioned great white. Because having more humanity makes the kill more of a betrayal. So no, I do not consider Angelus' 'lack of humanity' (in that single episode to boot) a measure of his evilness. He is evil - no doubt of it, but he is just one of many of faces of evil in the series. Nor do I think he is one character we can hate safely and purely. Because, you know, his portrayal changes as the series progress too. For example his and Darla's flashbacks in AtS paint him as something rather more attached to humanity than what the Judge was implying. I meant the scene when Darla brings him to meet Master and Master kicks them both out of the nest - because Angelus likes to be around humans too much.

 

[Dagenspear]

Yes. Angelus is, in fact, pure evil incarnate. He is void of love, compassion, mercy, and even jealousy. He cares about nothing and no one, and for that, he has no humanity.

---------- Post added at 04:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 AM ----------

The judge thing was notnwell thought out, as stated above. I mean, angelus liked to draw and loved that ballet. But let's say that the writers meant love and affection. In that case, yes, angelus was absolut evil. Not sure why. Maybe his demon was extra wicked, liam was already a bit evil, coincidene, maybe the soul usually leaves a echo in vampires but for some reason left none in angelus.

I actually love that we have a character we can trully hate. He's evil, and we can laugh at him when he fails without feeling evil, since unlike the other characters, he has no nice side we'd have to consider when judginh him.

Liam wasn't evil at all. Not a great guy, but by no means was he evil.

 

[ladydorotea]

Liam strikes me as first and foremost as a rebel. All his sins, when examined closely, are more or less what a spirited young person does when faced with overly straight upbringing. It is funny that behavior like drinking and chasing after girls, while dreaming of the bigger world out there can be (without a hint of humor) be discussed as 'a bit evil' by modern day standards. Jeez, if he was not turned he most likely would have ran away to seek his fortune elsewhere, exactly because of his continuous nagging at wanting more , or maybe ran away to Americas and sought his fortune there. And since he was strong-willed, ambitious and had a knack to not settle for less risky but more safe lifestyle - he might have eventually succeeded and made his fortune and married and became very much like his father in all but spirit. Or he might have got a STD and drunk himself to death. 🙂 In any case - Liam to me appeared to be much more interesting than average 'a bit evil' person. So yeah, pride be the inherited feature of Angelus that his human host possessed in measure even when young and immature.

Yes. Angelus is, in fact, pure evil incarnate. He is void of love, compassion, mercy, and even jealousy. He cares about nothing and no one, and for that, he has no humanity.

In this particular episode taken as a stand alone - yes - I would agree. But not through the entire series ( AtS included.) And I always retconned this to myself as the result of 100 year imprisonment under suppression by human soul: The released demon went into rage and could not care less for anything human after being humiliated with greatest love for not only human - but a Slayer.

 

[Dagenspear]

That's how I always saw it... Kinda.

 

[brinkster130]

He was evil, but I never thought he was pure evil.