Angelus With A Chip

[white avenger]

Assume for a moment that Angelus, not Spike, had been the blood sucking fiend without a soul who the Initiative fitted with a behavioral inhibition chip instead of Spike. How would it have changed his basic character and how would he have dealt with it?

I think that, once the problem of changing his diet from human blood to pig blood was overcome, Angelus would have had less problems adjusting to the chip than Spike did. Certainly, he couldn't physically hurt anyone, but that would not have stopped him from doing what Angelus seemed to love as much if not actually more than killing: playing mind games and mentally torturing people. We saw from "The Yoko Factor" that the chip in no way inhibited such activities, so Angelus' basic character wouldn't have been affected to the degree that Spike's was.

Spike, by his own definition, was "all about the kill," and it doesn't take much of a stretch of the imagination to see that whatever torture and mayhem that he caused was primarily to impress and be accepted by Angelus, Darla, and Dru. What he missed the most was the fight and the kill. During the time before he learned that he could still fight and kill demons and other vampires, he came to the point of becoming actuallt suicidal.

While Angelus undoubtedly had the skill to fight, he seemed, in the flashbacks that we saw, more likely to avoid fighting for the most part, preferring the quiet kill as opposed to Spike's elation over the "fists and fangs" type of confrontation. Adjusting to an existence without physical conflict wouldn't have been anything like as hard for Angelus as it was for Spike. Another thing is, while Spike without a soul seemed perfectly capable of loving, Angelus never showed any such tendencies, and since Spike's feelings for Buffy are almost certainly what put him on the road to reformation and, ultimately, gaining hai soul, without such feelings, Angelus just doesn't strike me as ever having the least desire or incentive to become a better man or to have even considered undergoing any sort of torture in order to protect Buffy or her friends and family.

 

[Bungle Jerry]

Well, at times the pain Spike seems to get from his chip doesn't really seem all that great (a quick ow and a palm to the head, as if he'd just eaten his ice cream too quickly), and I think Angelus had a rather sadomasochistic relationship with pain, so I think he might have gotten used to the chip, and might have found it didn't even slow him down much. Probably he couldn't bite into people (I'd imagine the pain caused by the chip is relative ot the pain caused by the vampire) but as we see in Crush there's nothing stopping a chipped vampire from feeding on human blood if another vampire snaps the neck first.

And as you say, Angelus was all about the mind games anyway. I don't think it would have bothered him much at all, really.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

I thought about this a few times and think that it wouldn't be much more than a slight bother to Angelus.

First off I agree with you about Angelus playing with others minds and feelings and doesn't like to fight as much.

Second, I don't think Angelus would have put up with the pain of the chip for as long as Spike did anyway. Angelus is much smarter and would have found some way to get the chip out in a matter of days, I think. Even if that meant Angelus had to torture someone in charge while being hurt by the chip. Angelus might have even liked the pain he felt everytime he hurt someone. He might have tested the chip to see how much pain he'd feel depending on how much pain he causes someone else haha.

 

[Gotham]

First things first, I don't think Spike was as sadistic as Angelus. He was all about the kill, but he didn't get his rocks off from human pain like Angelus did. Spike actually enjoyed this world and was capable of loving; whereas Angelus would of happily brought on the apocalypse. Spike 9 times out of 10 would have taken a direct route in trying to kill Buffy; whereas Angelus would have gone for maximum pain by killing Buffy last. So, I don't think the chip would have in anyway neutured the person that Angelus was. He was rotten to the core.

I also think that he would have gotten rid of the chip much quicker than Spike ever did. Spike almost went into a depression in the immediate aftermath of getting the chip; Angelus would have banded a group of all sorts together and he would would have led a siege on the initiative, taking hostages or even worse and more effective, take a member's family hostage.

 

[BuffangelLovE]

Am I the only one to think, that Angelus would have gone literally crazy, if he had the chip? He wouldn't be able to do the one thing he enjoys the most, which is hurting people, not only mentally but physically as well (torture). And he would feel like a cripple, if he needed help to feed on people. Therefore, he wouldn't accept that help from anybody anyway.
I don't know, it's difficult to tell. But I think he'd probably try to get it removed asap first and if he fails, he'd prefer suicide than go on living like that.

 

[The Unspoken]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there wouldn't be any Bangel dumpster sex a la 'Doublemeat Palace'.

Anyway, maybe season 4 Angelus trapped in that cage is somewhat of an indication of how he would behave.

 

[Taake]

Am I the only one to think, that Angelus would have gone literally crazy, if he had the chip? He wouldn't be able to do the one thing he enjoys the most, which is hurting people, not only mentally but physically as well (torture). And he would feel like a cripple, if he needed help to feed on people. Therefore, he wouldn't accept that help from anybody anyway.
I don't know, it's difficult to tell. But I think he'd probably try to get it removed asap first and if he fails, he'd prefer suicide than go on living like that.

I really think he would have adjusted and honed his mind-game torture skills, getting his rocks off that way... or found minions to do the physical torturing for him 🙂

 

[LadyLavinia]

Second, I don't think Angelus would have put up with the pain of the chip for as long as Spike did anyway. Angelus is much smarter and would have found some way to get the chip out in a matter of days, I think.

Angel/Angelus IS NOT smarter than Spike, just more patient. Sometimes.

 

[Aloverssoulz]

Angel/Angelus IS NOT smarter than Spike, just more patient. Sometimes.

I strongly disagree. I don't think Spike is all that smart. He notices things in people that the others don't and uses that skill to take advantage of them, but isn't to bright.

A good example is Angel telling him he's an idiot for hiring a Vampire to help him get the Ring of Amara, but Spike said he hired someone that doesn't care about the ring. In the end the Vampire stole the ring for himself leaving Spike with nothing.

 

[Willow My Love]

Honestly, I think Angelus would have messed with their minds and gotten other vamps to kill them. We saw in Crush that there's no problem with a vamp feeding off a person once they're already dead, so I don't think Angelus would have had to stop drinking human blood.

 

[Buffyverse Fan]

I'm with the majority in think Angelus would have either enjoyed it, or found a way around the Chip. I'd say the same for Dru, though Darla probably would have had as much trouble with it as Spike.

A normal vamp would probably just die pretty quickly from the Chip...

 

[Red Sox Nation]

I think Angelus would have gotten the chip out within days, every evil thing in his dimension worships Angelus, we've seen how everyone likes to kiss Angelus' ass, he could just form a huge Army (he could do that within hours), get into the initiative, force them to get the chip out, & then slaughter them. Angelus is quite possibly the smartest villain in the show, he had the AI team fighting each other in a matter of hours WHILE he was trapped in a cage.

 

[white avenger]

Angelus is quite possibly the smartest villain in the show

He was most definitely the hardest villain for Buffy to fight, simply because he knew her so well. He knew who her friends were, and all of their habits. He was certainly more familiar with her fighting style than any of her other enemies. And what's most important, he knew exactly how to exploit her feelings for Angel, using them to his advantage.

 

[Red Sox Nation]

He was most definitely the hardest villain for Buffy to fight, simply because he knew her so well. He knew who her friends were, and all of their habits. He was certainly more familiar with her fighting style than any of her other enemies. And what's most important, he knew exactly how to exploit her feelings for Angel, using them to his advantage.

that's why I said he was The Smartest, even Wesley himself said that Angelus is smarter than him, & Wesley is one of the smartest characters on the show. it amazes me how Angel isn't close to being as smart as Angelus, Angelus has the brain of a God.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Assume for a moment that Angelus, not Spike, had been the blood sucking fiend without a soul who the Initiative fitted with a behavioral inhibition chip instead of Spike. How would it have changed his basic character and how would he have dealt with it?

Personally? I think Angelus would have made a much harder time adusting than Spike did. While both Spike and Angelus took pleasure in killing, for Angelus, it was an art. Without his abilty to make that "art", what pleasure could be find in life?

While Angelus undoubtedly had the skill to fight, he seemed, in the flashbacks that we saw, more likely to avoid fighting for the most part, preferring the quiet kill as opposed to Spike's elation over the "fists and fangs" type of confrontation. Adjusting to an existence without physical conflict wouldn't have been anything like as hard for Angelus as it was for Spike. Another thing is, while Spike without a soul seemed perfectly capable of loving, Angelus never showed any such tendencies, and since Spike's feelings for Buffy are almost certainly what put him on the road to reformation and, ultimately, gaining hai soul, without such feelings, Angelus just doesn't strike me as ever having the least desire or incentive to become a better man or to have even considered undergoing any sort of torture in order to protect Buffy or her friends and family.

While I agree that Spike and Angelus had drastically different killing styles, I still think that Angelus would have a much harder time adjusting, mostly because like you said, unlike Spike, he wasn't already on the road to reformation. I think though initially against the chip, Spike eventually realized that it was the chip that had given him a second chance at redemption, and used it to his advantage. Angelus as you say showed no interest whatsoever in redemption, so unlike Spike, who tried to kill himself and complained alot (but still dealt with the chip remarkably well) would have simply figured out a way to remove it, even it if that included drilling it out of his own brain. He could have easily hired a demon to do it, or something.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that there wouldn't be any Bangel dumpster sex a la 'Doublemeat Palace'.

You bring up a good point.

If Angelus had gotten the chip and not Spike, do you think Buffy would have continued to be involved with Angelus as she has with Spike when she returned from the dead?

I strongly disagree. I don't think Spike is all that smart. He notices things in people that the others don't and uses that skill to take advantage of them, but isn't to bright.

A good example is Angel telling him he's an idiot for hiring a Vampire to help him get the Ring of Amara, but Spike said he hired someone that doesn't care about the ring. In the end the Vampire stole the ring for himself leaving Spike with nothing.

Well, I don't want to go too off-topic, but I can't help but comment on this.

Spike has proven himself to be not only smart, but intuitive as well.

You're right that he has the ability to "read" people very well (this is why I call him the Truth Sayer of the group) and "tell it like it is." That is not a result of his intelligence, i don't think, but rather his well-developed ability to understand people; their motivations, desires, and needs.

While Spike's worst trait is arguably his tendency to get impatient, but I'd like to think why you think that he's unintelligent. Smart people can make bad calls. Buffy is very smart, but we all know the bad decisions she has made.

 

[Red Sox Nation]

^^^ Spike is very smart, I agree, but I think nobody in the Buffyverse can compete with Angelus on that aspect, Angelus is an artist, an artist's abilities are endless.

about how would Angelus coup with the chip, assuming he won't use his popularity to find a way to remove it, I think there is no way he'll handle it like Spike, Angelus can't live without torturing people, its a torture for him to see someone innnocent walk by & ignore him/her (like we've seen in Orpheus).

 

[LadyLavinia]

He was most definitely the hardest villain for Buffy to fight, simply because he knew her so well.

I believe that Willow and the First were tougher villains. They knew Buffy a lot better than Angel did.

 

[Taaroko]

Angelus wouldn't put up with a chip long enough for us to know if/how he would readjust to having it. He'd either find a way to get it out, or he'd find a way to break it without removing it. I mean, wouldn't an electromagnetic pulse destroy it? If memory serves, Spike only legitimately tried to get it out one time, and then he pretty much gave up. Angelus would try every single possible method of removing/breaking it before giving up, including out-of-the-box ones like reversing time to before he got it. He'd also never stoop to asking the Scoobies for help. If Buffy and Willow (or any of the Angel Investigations crew) knew, they'd just put his soul back, because they'd much rather have Angel than Angelus, whether or not there's a chip.

While the chip is still functional and before anyone can hit him with the Ritual of Restoration, though, I think he'd be able to handle it fairly well. He can be extremely patient in a terrifying way, and that would serve him well in this scenario. He'd fall back on psychological torment and manipulation of the kind he inflicted from the cage in Angel S4 and he'd use his seductive charm and cunning to get things he wants, but he wouldn't not be thinking of ways to get rid of/destroy the chip. He would also intimidate and torture other vampires/demons into working for him, which would have the added bonus of giving him an outlet for his love of causing physical pain.

Angel(us) is very smart either way. He's easily on par with Wesley and Giles, though Willow and Fred probably have him beat (in terms of IQ, though not in terms of imagination, cunning, ability to act, ability to manipulate, etc.). It's hard to tell whether Spike is smart or not, because he's generally so immature and impatient that he rarely *acts* smart. Compare his approach to Angel's in "Damage", for instance. Angel took the time to figure out who Dana was and used the right resources and was able to neutralize her within seconds, whereas Spike went charging in on a false assumption he didn't bother to verify and ended up losing the fight and getting his hands chopped off. Or the flashbacks in "Why We Fight". Spike was all for killing every last human on that sub, and it was only when a very annoyed Angel pointed out that only the humans know how to get the sub back to land that he grudgingly kept his urge to kill in check. Angel(us) is basically a chess master. He thinks before he acts and he plans very carefully (and successfully). Most of the time, Spike just does whatever the heck he wants without thinking it through.

 

[LondonDude]

Angelus wounldn't want a chip on his head and he will probably try everything to get rid of it. He would try to manipulate or intimidate vampires/demons to do his dirty work for him.