Another Possible Unexpected Return

That's a great little passage Primal Slayer. I'm not sure it proves what you want it to though.

I believe the bit you're talking about is this one:

WESLEY
All the events we've witnesses these past months, all the madness, it was birth pains.

You understand this is metaphor, right? And it's coming from a Wesley who has had his judgement influenced by some kind of mystic brainwashing. The comment only writes the evil done by Evil-Cordy off to metaphoric birth pains. It doesn't say the actions weren't evil, nor does it say who might be responsible for them. It's only brainwashed Wesley saying, "the end justifies the means".

Let's contrast it with the statement from the real Wesley before the brainwashing occured.

WESLEY
It's a spell. Think. Even before its birth, this thing controlled Cordelia, caused her to do unspeakable things. It's evil. Remember the Rain of Fire, permanent midnight, all the horrors done in its name"”

The Cordelia Wesley is talking about here sounds very "Firsty" to me. I emphasize it was THE REAL WESLEY that made the above statement not some brainwashed, cult member, Wesley.

After the real Wesley says this we hear Jasmine off screen tell Wesley the Evil done by Evil-Cordy "must be rectified".

This means one of two things. Either Jasmine is speaking sincerely, and she recognizes the actions of Evil-Cordy as actions she personally finds reprehensible, and in need of being "rectified", or Jasmine is just feeding Wesley a line; in which case we can't believe anything she says.

Another interesting bit from the passage you quoted is this one:

But, first I needed a miracle. And so I arranged one. (touches Connor's face) Through you, Angel, through Darla. That is where my parentage began. Two vampires"”creatures one human corrupted by darkness. And you with a soul"”a miracle already.

Doesn't this sound like Evil (The First} merging with Good (The Powers That Be-Jasmine).

Now let's look at the orange crystal Evil-Cordy uses when she communicates with Angelus. Here's the bit from Release that references the crystal.

BEASTMASTER (O.S.)
Don't worry. (flash to show white-eyed Cordelia in her room at the hotel saying what Angelus is hearing) We'll meet when you're ready.

ANGELUS
Come on. Why the stalling? You whipped up a rain of fire, blotted out the sun, earthquakes...all to maneuver the Brady Bunch into releasing Angel's inner me. Don't you wanna kick the tires?

BEASTMASTER (O.S.)
(as Cordelia speaks, she's holding a glowing orange crystal in the palm of her hand) So beautifully vain, but the whirlwind doesn't always revolve around you. Destruction sometimes is its own reward.

To me this suggests three possibilities as regards the function of the crystal. Either it is used to facilitate the communication between Angelus and Evil-Cordy, it disguises the inner voice Angelus hears, or it does a combination of the two.

It does not disprove the possibility Evil-Cordy could be speaking in a voice representing her true nature. I emphasize the word possibility. That's all I'm suggesting. It's possible the voice we hear represents the true force behind Evil-Cordy.

There's another interesting bit in this little interchange between Angelus and Evil Cordy. It goes like this:

ANGELUS
Hey, man, you're preaching to the guy who ate the choir. Wait, it was you, wasn't it? You pulled just the wrong strings to make them think it was their idea. Got 'em to yank that white, fluffy soul, and stuff it in a jar, and then gone, baby, gone.

BEASTMASTER (O.S.)
Couldn't risk them putting it back in you. I have wonderful plans for you, my sweet boy.

What were these plans? They had nothing to do with anything Jasmine did?
 
about lindsey returning: i forget where i read this, it may have been on teh wb website or tvtome but it says that Christian Kane(lindsey) is playing Sean. So is it really lindsey, is he going by a different name, or is Chridtian playing a totally different character. i hope its not the last one caus ethat would suck, i liked lindsey
 
Joss always said he would never replace another actor in one's place or create another character using the same actor. He's always been very firm in that. Christian is playing Lindsey, he has to be. 😀
 
I want to put all the circumstantial support for the "Return of the First" theory in one itemized post.

I added a couple.

1. In Amends the First says "WE brought you back, suggesting a possible First/Jasmine alliance.

2. Both the First and Evil Cordelia wanted Angel left alive as part of some master plan.

2a. Both the first and Evil Cordelia wanted Angel to turn into Angelus as part of some master plan.

3. Faith was attacked by someone with a bringer knife before she could come to the aid of Angel.

4. Dead Lilah appears to Wesley in the same manner we see The First impersonate the dead.

5. Both Holland Manners representing the senior partners, and Joyce as the First have tried to convince the heroes to accept evil, and believe it's just a necessary part of life.

6. Evil-Cordelia speaks inside Angel's head in a male voice.

7. The symbols carved on Spike's chest in Never Leave Me, and the symbol's tatooed on Lindsey's chest in Destiny have an odd similarity.

8. Evil Cordy doesn't seem like either Cordy, or Jasmine. She seems all dark and evil.

9. Cordy as the beastmaster tells Angelus she has plans for him. Jasmine had no plans for Angelus. So if Evil-Cordy was not speaking for Jasmine who was she speaking for.

10. In Orpheus Evil-Cordy's eyes go white; exactly like Wood's eyes went, when he stood on the seal in Storyteller.
 
this is a shot from the past but I would love to see a ghost of Doyle come back to WH, that would freak the hell out of Angel.


I would like to see the first come back, there is room for really interesting stuff with the Angel cast, plus you have the whole dinamic of spike. It would juice it up.

but that is all dependent on WB renewing Angel. (please, one more season of Angel)
 
Originally posted by nerd4hire
2. Both the First and Evil Cordelia wanted Angel left alive as part of some master plan.

2a. Both the first and Evil Cordelia wanted Angel to turn into Angelus as part of some master plan.

I suggest an edit to these, adding the Senior Partners.

2. The First Evil, the Senior Partners and Darth Chase wanted Angel left alive as part of some master plan.

2a. The First Evil, the Senior Partners and Darth Chase wanted Angel to turn into Angelus as part of some master plan.
 
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