Anti-gay reference in Angel??? (5x20)

well look at the episode where andrew was doing the home video on buffy....come on willow and kennady on the coautch.....and hes filliming window pains put in by xander....? i know what id be watching...
nothing wrong with him if was gay. i am hence i wouldnt be watching the windows (6)
 
I don't actually think that there was any anti-gay reference in Andrew's saying "people do move on", I actually thought it was a message that Spike and Angel should move on.
 
Well I'm not sure about your reasoning here, but I'm glad you reminded me of that scene in Angel. It supports my Andrew was straight argument.

I think the point was just the Andrew used to suck with girls but having the dates showed that he'd grown a lot of confidence and was no longer the dorky high school kid he was before.
 
Warlock said:
just to toss another spanner into this whole mess...Why does everyone assume the ladies Andrew goes off with are female?
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Nice one.

And I know it's kinda played out by now, but gotta say a few things about Andrews gayness.

To me he never was gay, he was a geek and he was great and loved to idolise people, but I don't think he's gay as such. Somehow in my book he is just one of those guys that are really and I know this is going to sound strange, but certain of himself. He wasn't afraid of being seen as gay and he had no problems acting in a way that might have seemed rather feminine, still he was masculine in his own way and a "new" type of guy. Again with kudos to Mr Whedon for being such an feminist and breaking all the stereotypes, showing us that it is allowed for guys to act "feminine" without having to be gay.

...., but then again aren't everyone in Whedonverse supposed to be bi?

So no I can't see any anti-gay in that phrase that you originally discussed.
 
P
postmortem
"but then again aren't everyone in Whedonverse supposed to be bi?" I liked it. ;)
I took it that Andrew meant he went from "Geek to Ladies Man". Andrew had those tendencies, but I wouldn't say that I thought he was completely gay.
 
Yeah, I don't think it was an anti gay thing. I mean Joss is the guy who gave us the Tara/Willow relationship, Gay Larry, Vamp Willow who was kinda gay, Kennedy, the possible Angel/Spike, and Darla/Dru in the ep TGIQ. I don't think he would give out an anti gay message after all of that.
 
Actually, what I think happened was this: Back in season seven Buffy, all those jokes and references that hinted that Andrew was gay were sort of unintentional. Or, what I mean is--the jokes were intentional, but the idea that Andrew was gay and didn't realize it was not. The jokes were there just because they were considered to be kinda funny. Their cumulative effect and impact was not being taken into account.

Now since it had never actually been established that Andrew was gay, when it came time for TGIQ, they wanted to throw the audience for a loop (because they like doing that), so they suddenly revealed Andrew as suave and able to date two women simul.

At the end of the day, the whole thing is still ambiguous. And rock on. I mean, it was a scene in a series and it's history now.

Maybe we should consider closing this thread?
 
WyrdDemonHunter said:
Maybe we should consider closing this thread?
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Yeah, theres no need for further discussion now that the show is over, we can't change anything....infact why bother continuing with the whole website....lets not stop at the basic threads, we should close all the websites because now the show is over we don't wanna discuss these minor details do we?
 
::Sarcasm meter explodes::

I never gave Andrews sexuallity a second thought, when watching the show. It never occured to me that he could be gay, it just never occured to me at all. I took the funny from it and that was all.

Looking back, I'd say Andrew had many gay moments.

Moment that made me laugh the most.
XANDER
"I've been through more battles with Buffy than you all can ever imagine. She's stopped everything that's ever come up against her. (Buffy and Faith walk through the front door and overhear Xander's speech) She's laid down her life - literally - to protect the people around her. This girl has died two times, and she's still standing. You're scared? That's smart. You got questions? You should. But you doubt her motives, you think Buffy's all about the kill, then you take the little bus to battle. (Buffy tears up) I've seen her heart, and this time - not literally. And I'm telling you, right now, she cares more about your lives than you will ever know. You gotta trust her. She's earned it."

Camera turns to Andrew and he has tears rolling down his face.

Words cannot describe the reaction that got from me.
 
Dia DeLa Muerte said:
Yeah, theres no need for further discussion now that the show is over, we can't change anything....infact why bother continuing with the whole website....lets not stop at the basic threads, we should close all the websites because now the show is over we don't wanna discuss these minor details do we?
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But to be fair this topic have sorta come to a stop for now, ain't that much more anyone of us can say for now. Give it 6 months and open a new thread on the same topic you might get a bunch of interesting replies and have some fun once again, but for now I can understand the will to close it. Besides the original topic has been slightly abandond for the discussion of Andrew.....and mm, post like mine that's got nothing to do with it at all.
 
Raine said:
Wow, it's hard to believe Angel would be anti anything, except for stuff like terrorism. I get to school today and one of my friends pulls me aside to go on about how she got so upset near the end of the episode, stating that it was "anti-gay". Let's see why...

It was made pretty clear on Buffy that Andrew was gay. It was never said but was hinted at to the extreme!! At the end of "The Girl in Question", Andrew gives Spike and Angel a speech on how people change, move on, and whatever... He's implying that he has changed for the better when he comes out all slick and cool in his tux. Afterwards he goes to open the door to greet his two extremely attractive female dates. The scene was boldly stating that Andrew has changed for the better, going from "gay" to "straight".

I'm not sure whether or not to agree with my friend, but she does bring up good points...
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"It was made pretty clear on Buffy that Andrew was gay"

No, it wasn't. He sort of enjoyed Xander's company and was very fond of Warren, but it wasn't made clear that he was gay, so it is not canon. Since, it is not made clear that he was gay, I don't see any anti-gay reference in that scene.
 
VisionGuy
VisionGuy
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FahrbotDrusilla said:
if it was just in a friend way he wouldn't have corrected it and added "spending time with" when he got the looks from Jonathan.
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So, you mean giving someone the looks ultimately makes them gay? If so, how do you read the scene in where a girl asks "does anybody here didn't sleep together" and Xander and Spike gives looks to eachother?
 
postmortem said:
So, you mean giving someone the looks ultimately makes them gay? If so, how do you read the scene in where a girl asks "does anybody here didn't sleep together" and Xander and Spike gives looks to eachother?
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haha, no i mean he had to changes his story... I'd never say Spike and Xander were gay for eachother, although that scene was funny.
 
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