HarmonysMinion
Townie
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2012
- Messages
- 23
In "Superstar" we learn that when one manipulates people's minds/memories like Jonathan did it creates a Demon. Did this happen also when the monks created Dawn and changed everyone's memories?
Any negative effects when the monks made Dawn?
- Thread starter HarmonysMinion
- Start date
Valjavertjinn
I am, I am, I am.
Oh, maybe! Maybe there's some big ol' demon out there that was tearing apart some Californian town all through Season Five! I wonder just how big it would be, though. The one in Superstar was pretty small, despite the fact that its summoner had changed the whole world...
But do you think that Dawn's would have gone away if the portal had opened?
But do you think that Dawn's would have gone away if the portal had opened?
SlayerOfVampyrs
VuffytheSampireBlayer
I can't remember any negative effects from the creation of Dawn. At least none that were mentioned. Which I always thought was odd, as Joss and co seem to be pretty bent on making every action have a reaction.
sisterofmercy
Ray of Sunshine..
Well it brought out the knight guys, but I'm not sure if they were there before or were just brought into the realm when Dawn was.
brinkster130
[No message]
I've always considered Joyce's tumor to be a side effect from the spells and magic used by the monks to implant so many memories into a mother's head so that her love for Dawn could be created. The rest of the people "got away" since so many memories weren't necessary, or the amount of love.
One can ask why Buffy didn't get sick, since as a sister the monks would also have to implant many memories to her, like in her mother, and to create love as well. But Buffy as a slayer, she was able to heal, unlike Joyce who got a tumor. Magic always comes with a price, and a heck of magic was used for Dawn.
One can ask why Buffy didn't get sick, since as a sister the monks would also have to implant many memories to her, like in her mother, and to create love as well. But Buffy as a slayer, she was able to heal, unlike Joyce who got a tumor. Magic always comes with a price, and a heck of magic was used for Dawn.
SlayerFest
Wiley Dairy Gnome
Well they made her pretty um...whiny haha 😉. Some people have suggested that Buffy's dad's affair with his secretary was created along with the false memories of Dawn. Keeping Buffy's dad away would lower the possibility of him trying to take Dawn away or it would stop her from visiting him...something like that.
That's a really good question, I never really thought of it. The idea of Joyce's tumor fits nicely but I don't want to believe that because one of the things that gets me most about her death is the fact that it was just a normal human one instead of a vamp or a demon or something that Buffy could fight.
Perhaps because when Jonathan created his little world he did it for personal gain, that's why he got a demon but because the monks had some decent intention it didn't create one. Or maybe not. Didn't they all die though? That's a pretty big consequence even if it wasn't the magic that did it. So maybe there was no one left to suffer the consequences and since Buffy and co weren't the people that did it, whatever it was didn't bother them. Or maybe something was just let loose and they killed it without even realising what it was! So many possibilities!
Damn, I'd never thought of it before but now it bothers me 😛
Perhaps because when Jonathan created his little world he did it for personal gain, that's why he got a demon but because the monks had some decent intention it didn't create one. Or maybe not. Didn't they all die though? That's a pretty big consequence even if it wasn't the magic that did it. So maybe there was no one left to suffer the consequences and since Buffy and co weren't the people that did it, whatever it was didn't bother them. Or maybe something was just let loose and they killed it without even realising what it was! So many possibilities!
Damn, I'd never thought of it before but now it bothers me 😛
scoobygang
Potential
I don't remember any negative effect about the creation of dawn.
The only negative effect i can constate is the death of the slayer which plunges the city on the chaos.
Concerning the joyce's tumor, i think it's different.
In more, buffy find an incantation to protect her mother against the forces of darkness in vain she don't find anythink because the problem is medical and not supernatural.
The only negative effect i can constate is the death of the slayer which plunges the city on the chaos.
Concerning the joyce's tumor, i think it's different.
In more, buffy find an incantation to protect her mother against the forces of darkness in vain she don't find anythink because the problem is medical and not supernatural.
shadcat
Confidant & Sex Poodle
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
- Messages
- 330
- Age
- 35
Dawn.
I can't believe nobody has said that yet!
I can't believe nobody has said that yet!
Taake
lol was just gonna say that!
ashleigh
I love Dawn, but I still feel the need to give Karma for this. :D
S
SlayerOfVampyrs
You. You. I love you. Will you marry me? :P
H
Hale Caesar
lol
VaderSpike24
Potential
There were several side effects:
1. The monks made The Key into Dawn to make Buffy protect it, resulting in the creation of the worst character in the Buffy universe.
2. Because Dawn was created, Glory was forced out into the open to cause havoc.
3. Becasue of Glory coming, she sucked people's brains out and turned them insane.
4. Becasue people's brains got sucked out and turned insane, the Crueller was summoned and killed some of them.
5. Because of the insane people being killed, The Knights of Byzantium were alerted that Glory and The Key were out there, so they came to destroy Dawn to destroy Glory and end the insanity.
6. Because The Knights of Byzantium tried to kill Dawn to destroy Glory, Buffy was 'forced' to give up her life to save Dawn's.
7 . And finally, because Buffy died to save Dawn from the Knights and Glory, the town of Sunnydale was left to the mercy of the demonic forces because there was no Slayer.
If those aren't side effects, I don't know what else can be.
And by the way, why did the monks have to protect The Key for? Why didn't they just destroy it? The Key only existed to open the gates to other dimensions, right? Well, if the dimensions opening meant the world would be thrown into chaos and the gates aren't meant to be opened, then wouldn't destroying The Key ensure that the gates were never opened? Wouldn't that have averted all the side effects mentioned above? If the monks never made The Key into Dawn and simply destroyed it, none of that would have happened.
Simple logic.
1. The monks made The Key into Dawn to make Buffy protect it, resulting in the creation of the worst character in the Buffy universe.
2. Because Dawn was created, Glory was forced out into the open to cause havoc.
3. Becasue of Glory coming, she sucked people's brains out and turned them insane.
4. Becasue people's brains got sucked out and turned insane, the Crueller was summoned and killed some of them.
5. Because of the insane people being killed, The Knights of Byzantium were alerted that Glory and The Key were out there, so they came to destroy Dawn to destroy Glory and end the insanity.
6. Because The Knights of Byzantium tried to kill Dawn to destroy Glory, Buffy was 'forced' to give up her life to save Dawn's.
7 . And finally, because Buffy died to save Dawn from the Knights and Glory, the town of Sunnydale was left to the mercy of the demonic forces because there was no Slayer.
If those aren't side effects, I don't know what else can be.
And by the way, why did the monks have to protect The Key for? Why didn't they just destroy it? The Key only existed to open the gates to other dimensions, right? Well, if the dimensions opening meant the world would be thrown into chaos and the gates aren't meant to be opened, then wouldn't destroying The Key ensure that the gates were never opened? Wouldn't that have averted all the side effects mentioned above? If the monks never made The Key into Dawn and simply destroyed it, none of that would have happened.
Simple logic.
EVIL UU
Scooby
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2011
- Messages
- 1,755
Buffy's father was turned into an asshole.
When you think about it, it's one of the most unfair, horrible things that happen on the show. Hank was decent, OK? He loved his daughter, he cared. The monks brainwashed him and killed the love he had for his own child.
How ****ed up is that?
When you think about it, it's one of the most unfair, horrible things that happen on the show. Hank was decent, OK? He loved his daughter, he cared. The monks brainwashed him and killed the love he had for his own child.
How ****ed up is that?
moonshadow
northern novice
Dawn was created out of part of Buffy, that may have changed Buffy in some way.
It did make her give up her life to save Dawn...and everybody else.
It did make her give up her life to save Dawn...and everybody else.
Maybe Dawn's stealing tendencies were actually caused by a rare, parasitic Klepto demon? Haha, just kidding, that was definitely the 'naive and teenage younger sibling' inside of her.
Anyway, a really good question! I'd hesitate to say it was Joyce's death because I'm a firm believer in the whole 'natural causes' (as Joss called it) lesson that was learnt in the aftermath. But I can imagine all of the possibilities for a vessel for all that demonic energy required for her fabrication. That was one big mind-twist on the monks' parts.
Anyway, a really good question! I'd hesitate to say it was Joyce's death because I'm a firm believer in the whole 'natural causes' (as Joss called it) lesson that was learnt in the aftermath. But I can imagine all of the possibilities for a vessel for all that demonic energy required for her fabrication. That was one big mind-twist on the monks' parts.
DeadFlagBlues
Townie
What gets me every time is that the magic to alter reality was permanent. It's hard to believe harsher consequences didn't occur. Wish they had mentioned something about it cos in my book, Dawn should have disappeared and everything gone back to normal after Glory was defeated.