Anyone else ever feel like Whedon's true passion of his shows was Firefly?

Joshua

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IDKY but I always got the feeling that he stopped caring about both Buffy and Angel after Buffy season 5 and Angel season 2. His writing for both shows after Firefly got cancelled felt half assed to me. Like he took his resentment on Firefly being cancelled out on Buffy and Angel.
 
Killjoy
Killjoy
Ohh I can tell you right now he LOVES Firefly more then anything he's ever done. He'll go on Firefly panels with Fillion more then he ever did with Buffy Angel or whatever....and look like he's having more fun also.
I don't know if I'd say he necessarily cared less about the Buffyverse shows at that point: but rather that he cared very much to take advantage of their success, while he had the opportunity? And that pulled his focus from ats/btvs, even after Firefly was cancelled?

It was such a fun, kinda off-the-beaten-path show. On a major network, but almost felt like an independent series because it was quirky. Its premise leaned more into the realm of science-fiction: we weren't at a relatable-looking Sunnydale High or the Hyperion Hotel anymore. I'm not sure just any showrunner, at that time in TV, could have gotten it off the ground. At least not by the bigger studios.

Once Buffy/Angel were successful though, Joss was in a position to bring to life new projects: and had a loyal following of fans to support them. And since Marti Nixon was showrunning Buffy at that point, and he had David Greenwalt on Angel- he didn't need to be as involved, even after Firefly ended.

And I definitely think we feel that shift in leadership as an audience, after a while (and THAT wasn't a change I was a huge fan of all the time 😂)

I really enjoyed some of the eps he wrote after Firefly: Chosen, A Hole in the World, Not Fade away... but there wasn't a whole lot that he did write himself post 2002. And those written by Joss always presented different than the other episodes in their seasons, had a different tone to them. Sometimes that was a really good thing (like with the finales and Fred's last hurrah) but sometimes too he brought a vibe to the table wasn't my cuppa tea (with Conviction, Lessons). Those two I think just stand out like a sore thumb among the other eps of their seasons. And I do wonder if it's because his focus was shifted to other projects he was dreaming up, the next 'big thing'?
 
B
Btvs fan
I agree about Lessons which was boring but Convection was pretty good. Chosen though was a God Awful finale and he should be ashamed of that
fauxindigo
fauxindigo
I like how Lessons opens the season even though I dislike a lot throughout the season, I think Chosen is a perfect full circle conclusion for Buffys character- much better than the Gift would've been. Can't imagine why Whedon should be ashamed of it
IDKY but I always got the feeling that he stopped caring about both Buffy and Angel after Buffy season 5 and Angel season 2. His writing for both shows after Firefly got cancelled felt half assed to me. Like he took his resentment on Firefly being cancelled out on Buffy and Angel.

Admittedly, he had good reason to hold resentment against the studio for what happened.

Despite being a proven hit-maker, Joss’s newest show was shoved in a bad time slot and essentially marched into an early grave by the infamously cancel-happy Fox network. It died before anything truly excellent could come from it, and the saddest part is that it was really no fault of his own. The network just completely bungled the whole thing, which is a pattern with sci-fi programming that persists to this day.
 
B
Btvs fan
But Buffy was on UPN and Angel on the WB neither are Fox.
And he did get a Movie Serenity afternoon
IDKY but I always got the feeling that he stopped caring about both Buffy and Angel after Buffy season 5 and Angel season 2. His writing for both shows after Firefly got cancelled felt half assed to me. Like he took his resentment on Firefly being cancelled out on Buffy and Angel.

I agree .


I do remember him saying he had a 5 year plan for Buffy , though this is years after it ended.
Certainly at the time it felt that way. That 6 and 7 (which was reusing old plots) were just him dragging the show out for extra cash. Hell I always saw OMWF as a metaphor of him saying he was bored with Buffy "Going through the motions"


Angel was always a more collaborative effort between him and Greenwalt and then Tim Minear. As he himself said, Angel was the guy who beat him up at high school.
 
I certainly agree Whedons Buffy finished at the end of S5, season 6 was given to Noxon who completely ruined Buffy by pushing Spike to much, I got the feeling everybody was going through the motions in S7 just waiting for the end, after firefly was cancelled although he wrote odd episodes or part episodes he had finished with Buffy and Probably Angel as well
 
fauxindigo
fauxindigo
Would you rather have had Riley stick around for Season 5, 6 & 7? Or nobody for Buffy? Someone new?
I think he had a true passion for both BtVS and Ats at the start, then Firefly being the new baby probably took over and it just wasn’t the same after it was cancelled.

I can’t really blame him though, like I love Supernatural and am happy that there are 15 seasons to watch, but even Kripke tapped out after the first five.
I think the shows are similar - late shoots, lots of stunts, visual effects, specific dialogue style (may effect length of scripts and pages needed to get through), budget constraints, tricky-evolving mythology… it is a lot of strain and pressure on the showrunners, so it makes sense that the fire goes out and you want to do something else, change it up.

So not sure Firefly was his ”true” passion, so much as it was a welcome change at the time that Whedon needed. Even without it he may have lost zeal and interest in the other two.
 
I think Whedon is the type of artist who gets really into one thing at once. Firefly was his baby for sure. The show was groundbreaking and different and I think he got really caught up in being included in that. Buffy and to a lesser extent, Angel was established and he had a great team working on them. I think he figured he could pass that torch and move on to creating and focusing on a new project.

But honestly I think if you were to ask Joss which show he was the most proud of, he'd say Firefly.
 
Reason: Spelling
As others have said, Joss originally had a five-seasons plan for Buffy, so that part I get. Although, he seemed to have quite a lot of fun writing season 6 along Marti Noxon.

Concerning Angel, I'm pretty sure the storyline past the first two seasons had less and less to do with him, and more to do with David Greenwalt and Tim Minear. He only started focusing more on AtS in the fifth season when his favorite, Spike, crossed over.

With that said, while I agree that the quality of Buffy took a small dip after season 5, I much prefer the last three seasons of Angel to the first two. It got a lot more interesting as there was a long-running story arc and the main cast gelled together.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I love all of Angel but agree that S5 was a gem!
I don't know if Joss' "true passion" is Firefly, if that was the case he would have tried to revive it. I think that it was a new project that he was excited about, because it was different. Angel and Buffy are in the same universe and he had been with those characters for years. But Firefly was a new creative outlet for him, so I can see why he wanted to prioritize it at the time. Things would have been different if Firefly didn't get cancelled, but Joss did want to do a 6th season of Angel, so I don't think it's because he didn't care about Buffy and Angel, it's just that he wanted to do something different, but it didn't work out.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Great points, I agree.
B
Btvs fan
He did revive it. There was the movie remember
Joss didn't write many episodes overall in the later seasons-- Waiting in the Wings, Once more with Feeling, Lessons, Spin the Bottle, Chosen, Conviction, Smile Time, Hole in the World & Not Fade Away; these episodes don't feel half-assed to me. I think they are great episodes, but he was spread too thin between Buffy, Angel, Firefly & everything else in his life. So it's a shame all three shows suffered because of it but they were still well done imo, in spite of being created/aired at the same time.

I think many other writers contributed greatly to the series' anyway besides Joss so who cares if he cared, I still like what other writers did as well, if not more than Whedon. Marti Noxon wrote Surprise, The Wish, The Prom (she wrote the class protector award!), Bewitched Bothered & Bewildered which has one of the best Cordelia moments ever when she tells off Harmony, Living Conditions, New Moon Rising, Forever, Consequences & Villains- all great, well written episodes in my opinion; her episodes have great dialogue. Marti also directed Forever which I think was pretty beautifully done. The only episodes that Marti wrote in S6 were Villains, Wrecked & Bargaining p1. Bargaining p1 isn't extraordinary (p2 always makes me cry w/Buffy & Dawn reuniting) but Willow breaking down after the car wreck in Wrecked always makes me cry (even if more bc of Alysons acting than Martis' writing). The seasons development with Buffy & Spike was surely Joss' overarching direction, not Martis just because Whedon gave her power to run the show day to day.

Doug Petrie wrote some of the BEST episodes of Buffy & Angel - and he only wrote two episodes of Angel (In the Dark & The Trial- both great); On Buffy, Petrie wrote some of my better episodes of Season 7 (Beneath You, Get it Done & End of Days) some of the absolute best of s3 & the entire series (Revelations, Bad Girls & Enemies), and some of the best of the series overall with This Years Girl, Checkpoint, Two to Go, No Place Like Home & Fool for Love. Even Petries lesser episodes are still decently good (The Initiative, The Yoko Factor, Weight of the World, As You Were, Flooded & Bring on the Night).

Steven S. DeKnight wrote some of my absolute favorites with Blood Ties, Spiral, Shells, Inside Out, Hell Bound, Dead Things, Deep Down & Apocalypse Nowish.

Drew Goddard wrote some iffy ones (Never Leave Me, Lies my Parents Told Me & Why We Fight) but also some of the absolute best imo with Conversations w/Dead People, Dirty Girls, The Girl in Question, Lineage, Origin & Selfless.

David Fury wrote a great closer to Season 6 with Grave and some of the most underrated episodes in both Buffy & Angel (The I in Team, Real Me, Crush, Disharmony, The Price, The House always Wins, Peace Out, Just Rewards, Destiny, You're Welcome, Power Play... even Go Fish imo.)

Jane Espenson wrote great episodes Band Candy, Earshot, The Harsh Light of Day, A New Man, Pangs, Intervention, I Was Made to Love You & After Life (Buffy's heaven confession to Spike) and she practically saved Season 7 by writing Same time Same Place & Conversations with Dead People alone. Her other s7 writing contributions Sleeper, Storyteller, First Date & End of Days are decently good if not great too.

So I didn't mean to hijack the thread, just wanting to point out that even if Joss wrote some great episodes and created the series to begin with, many other artists and writers contributed to the series' in the later seasons regardless of Joss' involvement.
 
D
Dora
Whedon wrote Buffy part in conversations with dead people
Tome
Tome
<3 Espenson episodes. :)
Joss didn't write many episodes overall in the later seasons-- Waiting in the Wings, Once more with Feeling, Lessons, Spin the Bottle, Chosen, Conviction, Smile Time, Hole in the World & Not Fade Away; these episodes don't feel half-assed to me. I think they are great episodes, but he was spread too thin between Buffy, Angel, Firefly & everything else in his life. So it's a shame all three shows suffered because of it but they were still well done imo, in spite of being created/aired at the same time.

I think many other writers contributed greatly to the series' anyway besides Joss so who cares if he cared, I still like what other writers did as well, if not more than Whedon. Marti Noxon wrote Surprise, The Wish, The Prom (she wrote the class protector award!), Bewitched Bothered & Bewildered which has one of the best Cordelia moments ever when she tells off Harmony, Living Conditions, New Moon Rising, Forever, Consequences & Villains- all great, well written episodes in my opinion; her episodes have great dialogue. Marti also directed Forever which I think was pretty beautifully done. The only episodes that Marti wrote in S6 were Villains, Wrecked & Bargaining p1. Bargaining p1 isn't extraordinary (p2 always makes me cry w/Buffy & Dawn reuniting) but Willow breaking down after the car wreck in Wrecked always makes me cry (even if more bc of Alysons acting than Martis' writing). The seasons development with Buffy & Spike was surely Joss' overarching direction, not Martis just because Whedon gave her power to run the show day to day.

Doug Petrie wrote some of the BEST episodes of Buffy & Angel - and he only wrote two episodes of Angel (In the Dark & The Trial- both great); On Buffy, Petrie wrote some of my better episodes of Season 7 (Beneath You, Get it Done & End of Days) some of the absolute best of s3 & the entire series (Revelations, Bad Girls & Enemies), and some of the best of the series overall with This Years Girl, Checkpoint, Two to Go, No Place Like Home & Fool for Love. Even Petries lesser episodes are still decently good (The Initiative, The Yoko Factor, Weight of the World, As You Were, Flooded & Bring on the Night).

Steven S. DeKnight wrote some of my absolute favorites with Blood Ties, Spiral, Shells, Inside Out, Hell Bound, Dead Things, Deep Down & Apocalypse Nowish.

Drew Goddard wrote some iffy ones (Never Leave Me, Lies my Parents Told Me & Why We Fight) but also some of the absolute best imo with Conversations w/Dead People, Dirty Girls, The Girl in Question, Lineage, Origin & Selfless.

David Fury wrote a great closer to Season 6 with Grave and some of the most underrated episodes in both Buffy & Angel (The I in Team, Real Me, Crush, Disharmony, The Price, The House always Wins, Peace Out, Just Rewards, Destiny, You're Welcome, Power Play... even Go Fish imo.)

Jane Espenson wrote great episodes Band Candy, Earshot, The Harsh Light of Day, A New Man, Pangs, Intervention, I Was Made to Love You & After Life (Buffy's heaven confession to Spike) and she practically saved Season 7 by writing Same time Same Place & Conversations with Dead People alone. Her other s7 writing contributions Sleeper, Storyteller, First Date & End of Days are decently good if not great too.

So I didn't mean to hijack the thread, just wanting to point out that even if Joss wrote some great episodes and created the series to begin with, many other artists and writers contributed to the series' in the later seasons regardless of Joss' involvement.

He had the main decision in choosing plots for the episodes, he also had uncredited writes for scenes or episodes (Church scene in Beneath You or pretty much all of Angel episode Untouched) . For example the episode Why We Fight was his idea , Goddard or DeKnight (can't remember which) said He'd watched U571 and had been a big fan of it and then came into the writers room saying let's have Angel and Spike on a Nazi Submarine. And that was it ! they had basically a week to write that episode.

Also not many people are aware that Marti wrote the Angel and Darla scene in Dear Boy.

He also then went and did Dollhouse , in which he said he most identified with the character Topher
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
Yeah but the movie was like 2005, and it hasn't gotten rebooted as a show, the movie was more of a closing of these characters.
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