April 18-23 episode discussion led by Marisa

Marisa

Liver Alone
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Hey everyone sorry for posting a day late!
Okay so my discussion is going to be around Cordelia and Connor. My question is if Angel and Cordelia had not been romantically linked in some form or another would you be okay with Connor and Cordelia? I would also like to ask if Cordelia had not been such a prominent role in Connor's childhood would it be okay to you if they had a romantic bond?

Episodes to review: Dad, Provider, Apocalypse nowish, awakening, inside out
 
if Angel and Cordelia had not been romantically linked in some form or another would you be okay with Connor and Cordelia? I would also like to ask if Cordelia had not been such a prominent role in Connor's childhood would it be okay to you if they had a romantic bond?

My problem with Cordy/Connor never had much to do with whatever entanglements she had with Angel, that never bothered me 🙂

So I'll jump on ahead to question 2. This was one of my main concerns back when this aired... maternal figure turning into lover...? Icky to say the least.

That said... I've made me peace with this. And this is how:
A.) Cordelia is not Connor's mother. 'Mother figure' is a weak subsitute and no less one that only lasted for a very short time. They had baby Connor around for a few months tops. Barely enough time to bond on a significant level.

B) Upon Cordy's return when she first starts to bond with Connor she doesn't remember any of that so her connection to him is independent of whatever thoughts of feelings she had of baby Connor. Those are dumped back into her brain later but by then she already has a connection to him and those old memories are bound to confuse her yes, but they can't change what's happened or how she feels (which is clearly trust and being safe with him. I would not say that amnesia Cordy fell for Connor just to clarify!!)

C) I've realized that my biggest Cordy/Connor issue is skin deep in it's biggest part. Charisma Carpenter and Vincent Kartheiser looks wrong together in my opinion, she looks far older than how old Cordy is supposed to be (a lot closer to Connor's age than Angel's btw). He looks like a teen and she looks like a fully grown thirty something woman (who no less is pregnant. And no that's not in the show by then but that's just knowledge I can't turn off). Basically she looks a bit like a cradle robber and that is what to me makes it rather icky.
 
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Spikefan31
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zobothehobo
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Wishing Oceans
Wishing Oceans
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Tome
Tome
:)
I'm bothered by Cordelia and Connor because I thought they were awkward together and kinda creepy. I never thought it in relation to Angel because I never believed in that farce that is Cangel (sorry guys). As Taake said, they physically looked so far apart..like Cordelia was 40 and he was 15...they chose the wrong actor for the role of Connor...if we think about it..Xander at his age looked much older and so this all added up to the creepy factor. I never thought she had such a prominent role in baby Connor's life since it was just for a few months anyway. My issue with them (if we can call it that) is that they look too far apart and their all dynamic is kinda weird, not natural at all.
 
they chose the wrong actor for the role of Connor...if we think about it..Xander at his age looked much older and so this all added up to the creepy factor.

I think Vincent looked perfect as Connor actually, he looked like a real teen to me, especially compared to the rest. It's just sad that they decided to pair him with Charisma when she so clearly wasn't 🙂
 
I think Vincent looked perfect as Connor actually, he looked like a real teen to me, especially compared to the rest. It's just sad that they decided to pair him with Charisma when she so clearly wasn't.

Yes, he was perfect for a teen (he really looked young) but I meant that in a tv show they always look older so he wasn't the exact choice for this especially because that's what brought to the distance with Charisma..that's, as we both said, the whole point I guess...🙂

---------- Post added at 12:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

Comments on this post
Taake agrees: I just wanted to clarify my love for Vincent as well as Connor. I wouldn't change him for anything in the world for Vincent was perfect to me I'd rather have them reconsider the putting him and Cordy together.

I'd prefer the second option too...not putting them together even if I don't care much for Connor..but he did a good acting job, that I admit.
 
Taake
Taake
I just wanted to clarify my love for Vincent as well as Connor. I wouldn't change him for anything in the world for Vincent was perfect to me :) I'd rather have them reconsider the putting him and Cordy together ;)
I think that Vincent was perfect for the role but he did look way younger than Charisma to be fair though when he shot Another day in paradise the director didn't even think he was old enough to do the mature scenes. He just ages well I guess. Taake I am with you and love how he actually looked like a teen to me him and Michelle always looked their ages.

I think you guys said it well maybe the thing is they don't look right together. Him looking so young and Cordy going through all she had already and being so mature made her seem way older than she was plus Charisma looked 30's by that time so it was a little weird.
 
Part of my problem with Cordy in general is that Charisma ALWAYS looked older than other people who were supposed to be her age. Even in season 1 of Buffy IMO. But it got way more noticable in Ats when they started dressing her like someone twice the character's age. Sure, the clothes looked nicer... but they also made her look way older. And then they started making her ACT way older. Also with the pregnancy, her boobs grew like WOAH... And her wardrobe never hid this.. so she looked older than that. Also the way her character was written... it felt like they were making a thirty something have sex with a teenager... and that's wrong. It felt disgusting... not only that but the only version of Cangel I ever liked at all (other than friendship) was the mom and dad Cangel. It wasn't that she was involved with Angel... it was that if Connor had been raised with Angel, Cordelia would have been the closest thing to "mom" he had. In fact, in my mind, they raise him calling her mom.
 
Goby
Goby
Agree!
In fact, in my mind, they raise him calling her mom.

That's pretty outrageous to me actually... I think Angel would have put his foot down and been very clear there. I'm sure he would have loved for Cordy to have been a part of Connor's life, as a mother figure perhaps (had things turned out that way) but I don't think he would ever have denied the memory of Darla and the fact that she was Connor's actual mother. I think he would've made sure Connor knew that no matter what.

Sorry, off topic... back to Connor/Cordy yay or nay-ness
 
Z
zobothehobo
i don't disagree with you, I think that's what would have happened... but in my mind I like to believe it would have happened my way.
I'm pretty much in agreement with Taake about this... What bothered me was mostly the fact Connor looked like a teen and Cordy like a 30+ grown woman... That and some scenes between them are really creepy. *looks at Connor_holtz* 🙄

Oh and... I know how ironic what I'm saying is with the banner I'm using. LMAO!
 
The age thing is a little yicky for me, since I have never and can't ever imagine myself being attracted to someone that much older or younger than me. However, if Cordelia had no personal ties to Angel, I wouldn't have seen such a big issue with Cordela and Connor being together. The fact that Cordelia was sort of Connor's mother figure when he was a baby and then ends up having a sexual relationship with him felt incestuous to me, even though it wasn't. *shudder*
 
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Marisa
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