Are 'modern' vampires related to something real?...

Grayson

Oh God... I'm English!
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I'd like to submit that the subject of vampirism has gotten somewhat tangled with the separate subject of physical immunity/immortality. The romantic vampire of today's popular literature is first and foremost a beautiful, incorruptible IMMORTAL. The conventional pre-1800's vampire, however was a fetid, monstrous revenant. A horrible creature that chewed its own limbs and clumsily attacked its own family!

But NON-supernatural highly-immune people ("immortals" if you will) are more plausible and might fit most of the definition of a romantic vampire. Consider if the occasional human has come along (through genetic mutations) with expanded resistance to disease, superior healing abilities, and/or slowed natural aging. These people could be killed, but only through direct injury (burning, blood loss, hanging,etc.). In more ignorant times, would be branded as 'witches' as soon as their talent was noticed and subject to a very REAL death!To protect themselves from suspicion, that meant a wandering life (ex. Casanova, St. Germaine), or one of quiet isolation. Some even believed the hysteria of their day, and made themselves into the supernatural beings others believed them to be (ex. Rasputin).

A successful immortal, who worked to integrate themselves would be a charming but imposing individual. They would possess lifetimes of experience that make them a bit 'larger-than-life'. They would be highly intelligent, and accumulate wealth and status. They may retain the tastes of an earlier day, and have adopted dated romantic modes of dress and social comportment. They would generally (except for perhaps a single lifetime) avoid the public limelight.

But for the lack of murderous blood-drinking, does this not sound like an Angel, Spike, Lestat, or a Dracula-like character?

I'm just speaking hypothetically of course! 😉
Your feedback is welcome.
 
Personally I've always found it interesting that Vampires seem to be a universal mythological creature (like dragons). Almost every culture in the world has stories about creatures that drink the blood of others. Makes you wonder sometimes...
 
My own conclusions are based on the worldwide variations on the vampire theme. While most cultures have a vampire legend, the creatures vary from ghostly (the succubus) to fantastic (the lamia), to horrific (the Eastern European vampir). The idea is similar, but the manifestations are so different that it makes me feel we're not talking about the same creatures.

The beautiful, immortal vampire did not come into the mix until 'modern' fiction, and later the movies and TV. That's why I searched for something a different common thread. Hence my theory.

My next observation - The "Holy Roman Empire" was neither holy, nor Roman, NOR an empire!
 
Well the similarity to the phenomanen of Dragons is significant, there have been a lot of tales about Dragons, from fearless, agressive wild beast to intelligent courageus protectors of the Earth. Even their forms differ from time to time, as indeed is the same with vampires. But I guess it's not only due to modern literature, that the concept is changig, but also because of the globalisation. Many cultures have mixed these times, and for everybody to agree with a general concept vampire, it had to be redefined with aspects from all of their different cultures and forms tehy appeared in.
 
Ok my opion, and remember its just my opion is pretty much the same as Grayson. I belive that vampires are an exsadurated(sp?) version of humans. Humans all have different tolarance levels for pain and disease and its not hard to imagine poeple from say an hundread years ago beliving someone who had a high tolarance level to be super human. Also, and its still the same to this day, things we dont understand, like super humans, would scare poeple and when we are scared are imaginations get carried away and it isnt hard to imagine someone beliving a myth like vampires to be true when faced with what they would belive to be evidence.
 
Ok the site doesn't work (anymore) so do you still have it somewhere else?
 
Does anyone have insight/references on my referenced "Immies" (non-supernatural humans with resistance to disease/injury and extended lifespans).

Here are some existing references that come to mind...

Biblical:
- Adam
- Cain
- Noah
- Methusaleh
- Samson (though not long-lived, other "immie" characteristics)
- King Solomon's "Mighty Men"
- In the Scriptures, human lifespans were only reduced after the Tower of Babel incident.
- The Wandering Jew: a man who participated in Christ's execution; reputed to wander the earth to this day.

Mythological:
- Merlin
- Faerie folk/Elves
- Dragons
- Dwarves
- Santa Claus

Legendary:
- Rhamses
- King Arthur
- Robin Hood
- Casanova
- Cagliastro
- St Germaine
- da Vinci
- Dracula
- Shaka Zulu
- Rasputin
- Hitler
- Jim Morrison
- Elvis Presley

Fictional:
Gregory Widen's "Highlander" series (this was developed based on his reading of the Clan MacLeod's "Faerie" lineage legends).

You have any more?
 
Originally posted by Allycat
Ok the site doesn't work (anymore) so do you still have it somewhere else?

Works when I click the link...but for those with strange computers:

Vampire Mythology

Introduction
Vampires have been around in mythology since the written records began. Do vampires have any basis in fact, where do the vampire traits come from and who "invented" them? There have been many books, both fiction and non-fiction, films and TV programs on the subject of Vampires, ranging from the classic "Dracula" by Bram Stoker to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer". Most of these works contain similar characteristics for the vampire.

Vampire "Facts"
The most common Vampire traits are:
  • Evil
  • Undead
  • Pale Skinned
  • Drink Blood
  • "Special" skills, such as super-strength, speed etc.
  • Repulsion to certain artefacts
  • Form new vampires by some ritual

Most works agree that vampires are evil, though this is probably more due to story lines than anything else. The fact that vampires are undead means that a person must die before becoming a vampire. In Buffy, a demon inhabits the body of the human. In other works vampirism is due to an infection, the film "Blade" is a good example. In all works (that I've read anyway) a vampire is made from a human by a ritual. This can either be drinking the blood of a vampire (Buffy) or draining the blood of a victim repeatedly (Dracula). There are many variations on this theme. The look of the vampires is usually pale complexion, have some kind of monstrous features (teeth, face or claws). They are also cold (which is from being dead I guess).

To kill a vampire you need to:
  • Put a wooden stake through the heart
  • Expose them to sunlight
  • Set them on fire
Vampires are also repulsed by:
  • Crosses
  • Holy water
  • Garlic
Various authors introduce other traits, such as they must sleep in soil from their homeland, or that they can only drink human blood. Most authors give their vampires supernatural powers such as turning to "mist", transforming to bats, mind control or great strength.

Historical Vampires
The term "vampire" has been used for many centuries, by many different cultures. The ancient Greeks believed in the strigoe or lamiae. These creatures ate children and drank blood. In Nepal, a picture found in a cave depicts the "Lord of Death" drinking blood from a goblet made from a human skull. This picture may be around 5000 years old. Stories from India (around 3500 years ago) tell of Rakshasas. These creatures, again, resemble vampires. However, these creatures were spirit-type creatures with no physical form and they did not pass on their affliction. Most modern ideas of vampires originate from Eastern Europe. The word vampir is Slavic in origin. "Nosferatu", another word describing vampires may also be Slavic in origin. Most vampire stories are actually based in history. The classic example is Vlad the Impaler. Vlad II was a member of the "Order of Dragons". In Romanian the dragonis drucul. Vlad became known as "Vlad Dracul". It doesn't take much to get to Dracula. Vlad III was Vlad the Impaler.
Some of the things he liked to do were:
  • Stake his victims
  • Kill sick and crippled people "in order that they represent no further burden to other men, and that no one will be poor in my realm."
  • Nailing hats to the heads of those who refused to remove them in his presence
  • Ate meals next to thousands of staked bodies, killing those who didn't like the smell
Many scholars believe Stoker based Dracula on Vlad III, however some disagree. Another historical vampire is Elizabeth Bathory, a noble woman in 1560. She liked to drink the blood of young girls, which she believed gave her youth. She didn't just kill the girls (of which there were six hundred or more!), she tortured them over months.

Vampire Places
Certain places are steeped in vampire mythology. Classical examples are Transylvania and Whitby. Transylvania was the setting used in Stokers novel for the castle of Count Dracula. Whitby was another setting in the novel, where Dracula first came onshore in Britain. Ann Rice has made New Orleans another classical vampire place, setting her first book "Interview with a Vampire" here. New Orleans is an interesting place due to the swampy ground, meaning that crypt burials were more common than traditional underground burials, at least after the 18th Century.

Medical Conditions
There are some medical conditions which could account for some of the Vampire myths. Conditions such as Porphyria and Xeroderma pigmentosum give sufferers sensitivity to sunlight. Porphyria also causes the skin to tighten around the teeth and gums, making the incisors more prominent. It also causes sensitivity to garlic. Another condition, Catalepsy causes the nervous system to effectively shut down the body, slowing heart rate and breathing until they are barely observable. This could cause a great many myths. Severe anaemia has symptoms such as paleness and an inability to eat food - classic traits of vampires and those that have been attacked by vampires.

Vampire Works
This list is of books, films, TV shows etc which besides having vampires as main characters are what I consider fantastic pieces of work. I've also included links to web pages I've used while writing this:

Buffy the Vampire Slayer - TV show on BBC2
Dracula by Bram Stoker - a brilliant novel and film
Blade - film starring Wesley Snipes with a modern look at vampires
Interview with a Vampire - novel and film by Ann Rice
Nosferatu - 1922 film
Salem's Lot - Stephen King novel and films
Pathway To Darkness
VLAD TEPES - The Historical Dracula
Vampire's [Fact, Fiction, or Fantasy]
Vampires: Origins of the Myth
Vampire Myths in Fiction
Vampire Evolution

P.S Sorry about the length and that took smegging ages. You'd better appreciate it 😛
 
hmm...
It would seem that even J.R.R. Tolkien got in on the act...

"Wheather it was from bird of beast that Melkor bred the evil bloodsucking Bat of Middle Earth no tale tells. But in the First Age of the Sun, it is told how, in this winged form - made large and armed with tolons of steel - Vampire spirits came into the service of Melkor the Dark Enemy."
- Tolkien: The Illustrated Encyclopedia
 
well whatever vampires are really like, i believe that they exist...why else would there be so much written about them? maybe they arent the kind of vampires we know, but there are some sort of vampires...
 
While I'm not entirely sure that vampire mythology has become entwined with mythology about "super-beings", it is an interesting concept. Most mythology has roots in many different cultures. Many people take this to mean that the myths could be (or could have been) true. I prefer to take this an a great example of how the human pysche works. We all evolved form a common ancsetor, it is therefore, reasonable to assume that humans of all races and cultures share some common need for believing in higher powers. The vampire mythos fills that criteria. My last post explored some of the origins of the myth, bringing in ancient myths, medical conditions and literature. This shows how mythology snowballs, collecting things that add to the mystery along the way. Grayson's arguement of including physical immunity/immortality is another example of this. Centuaries form now the myth will be distorted some more and who knows what the common view of vampires will be then.

So in my personal opinion, vampires do not exist (neither do dragons), but the mythos is so pervasive that it really does seem that vampires and other mythical creatures, may have, or still do exist.
 
To sum that up, you believe in Carl Marx' (communism was based on his theories) line: "Religion (incl. superstition and supernatural) is the opium of the people" and also in his projection theory!

Back to the more technical insights on vamps, some people also believe that whenever a vamp kills somebody, the spirit wil leave the body and this will haunts the nearby's as some sotrt of zombie, a "ghoul".

I don't believe in them ... yet, because I believe that with modern genetic moderation, the creation of both vampires and dragons should be possible!
 
Originally posted by Allycat
To sum that up, you believe in Carl Marx' (communism was based on his theories) line: "Religion (incl. superstition and supernatural) is the opium of the people" and also in his projection theory!

I do?! I'll have to take your word for it 😀 I'm a scientist, so I need evidence of things before I can say what's what and although I like to think I'm open minded, I know that I'm not. Been trained to think cynically for too long!

*wanders off to look up Marx's theories*
 
Yes you seem to do, but a lot of people unconsiously do, which is not very strange since Marxism and Communism are the fairest way of arranging society, unfortunatly people aren't ... fair, that's why the system doesn't work!

Anyway back to vampires we've talked about modern vampires compared to historical vampires and about the different historical vampires, but we haven't talked about the differences between the different modern vampires, not only their rules, they can be our subject later on. Let's look at appearance first. Here are some screencaps:

blood-the-last-vampire-creature.jpg

Ordinary Vampire from "Blood the Last Vampire"

blood-the-last-vampire-sharon.jpg

Sharon from "Blood the Last Vampire"

meier05.jpg

Meier Link from "Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust"

d01.jpg

D from "Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust"

alucard13.jpg

Alucard from "Hellsing"

Well I'm sure you can find some more, maybe some real-life, anyway I think I've shown that there's still variation in vampires!
 
BtVS and Angel have (to my knowledge) dealt with the following vampire variations...

Angel, Spike, Dru, et al...
The classic vamp.

The Master...
old, evolved vampire (losing human semblance)

???...
The old vamp in Season 3 with the hoof-like hands. Almost no humanity remained.

Dracula...
A decidedly different vamp. Shape-changing (mist, wolf, bat), did not get the 'grr' face when he bit, and able to recover(!) after being staked! He seemed to be the most in control of his condition (thus more human) than any other vamp... though per Spike, these were just 'old gypsy tricks'😉

The yet-unnamed Hellmouth vamp...
The Nosferatu-looking little bugger that came out of HM this season. We'll see what he (she?) has up his (her?) sleeve.
My own take (not a spoiler, just a suspicion) - it may just be a Slayer that was turned into a vamp... talk about a 1-2 punch!!
 
On the new thing ->
It is not a actual Vampire, it is a vampire of the vampires, so it kills and feeds of vamps and it turns them.

Yopu forgot to mention the thing Angel changed in, the supossedly "real" vamp in Phylea.

In other modern stories, we have also seen things as different races, and vampyr-gods!
 
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