Are movies responsible for our actions?

Morbid_Much

Much Morbided
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For those of you who have seen Scream 2 (maybe alot of you since SMG is in it...) you know that one of the killers motives are (and this might be a spoiler... Although I doubt any of you even think about this movie anymore) to blame his/her murders on the movies. And earlier on in the movie, the film class has a discussion about weather or not movies can be or can't be held liable (sp?) for our actions. SMG, Jamie Kennedy, and some others were saying that it's reality and it doesn't immitate(sp?) anything (in other words... No, movies aren't responsible)... And others were saying it's a classic case of art imitating life imitating art or sumthing like along those lines... (in other words, yes, movies are directly responsible)





My question to you is do you think movies are responsible for our actions? Why or why not? I'm excited to hear everybody's thoughts on this!
 
This is a pretty difficult topic to debate... So many different things would have to be taken into account... I mean, movies have been crossing the lines of "influential" for as long as they've been made... In my personal opinion, I don't believe that they should be held accountable for our actions, but I do think that they are more influential than any other form of "entertainment". There is always the possibility of someone seeing murders on-screen and thinking it's a good idea. There are risks with everything. Some people can be lead like sheep to believe anything. That's why there are several warnings and precautions that the film industry takes in order to protect themselves from being held liable.

If you are lead by movies to commit crimes or whatever, I think there was something way wrong with you to begin with, and movie influence wouldn't be the biggest of your problems.
 
S
Soulgasm
totally agree with you amber...
If you are lead by movies to commit crimes or whatever, I think there was something way wrong with you to begin with, and movie influence wouldn't be the biggest of your problems.

i couldn't have said it better...

people are responsible for their own actions...

and even if movies are influential...how far do we go...what guidelines do we setup to ensure that movies don't influence in a bad way...how far do we censure...it's a very slippery slope...
 
Hmmm, I don't really think that movies are responsible for our actions, I mean everybody has a brain, and makes their own decisions, and if that's to imitate the things on movies, TV, etc, then that's their choice. I mean, say a kid grows up basically just watching horror movies, or murder show/movies, you would probably say that they might become a criminal of some sort. But, when their older, they should know right from wrong, even if it wasn't instilled in them when they were little, they should still have a sense of it. I do think that movies are influential, but that is no excuse for people's actions.
 
I couldn't agree more. People are what they are. If you are a balanced individual then no matter how many movies you watch or video games you play you still won't suddenly decide to go out and murder a bunch of people. I've seen countless horror movies and my bodycount is still zero! 🙂

These days people are always looking for something to blame. They hear that a serial killer once saw Nightmare on Elm Street as a child and immediately decide to blame that on how he turned out. Thing is that the serial killer was always going to end up an unstable freak and would have done what he did anyway, even if he had grown up watching nothing but Police Academy movies.

Actually if i'd grown up watching nothing but Police Academy movies i would probably want to kill a lot of people too, so bad example! 😀
 
Yea... I agree that movies can't be responsible, at all, people can get ideas from movies but that's still not the real reason for them doing what they're doing and so on... When it comes to horror and that kind of movies. But, I have a different opinion when it comes to pornography... I'm not exactly blaming porno movies for rape and the really weird view some people have on sex but... yea, okay, I kinda am (partly) blaming those movies for that, more or less.
 
See, i see the porn issue as being the same thing.

Porn doesn't make you a rapist, nor does it make you suddenly start wanting to abuse children or any of the other sick things that people do. You have to be that way in the first place before you go looking for that kind of porn on the internet or in movies or whatever.

The truth is that very few people in this world over the age of 18 can truthfully say that they have never looked at porn or enjoyed an erotic movie. In fact there are probably very few people over the age of 14 or 15 that can say they have never hunted through the late night adult channels for a peek at the freeview. Pretty much all human beings like sex and porn is a part of that. A heterosexual guy wanting to see a naked girl (over the age of 18 and consenting, obviously) is perfectly normal. So is a girl wanting to check out a naked guy, a gay guy wanting to look at another gay guy or any varaition on the same theme. There are couples all over the world who like to watch porn movies together to spice up there love life. No big deal. As long as it is legal and nobody is getting hurt or being forced to do anything they don't want to do then i have no problem with porn.

The problem is that there are people out there that are sick and twisted and are not satisfied with what is normal or legal. Those people are not that way because they have seen porn however. They are like that because they are born that way. The only reason that kind of depravity exists is because people are like that in the first place. They make that kind of porn and then sell it to others that get off in that way.

The fact is though that checking out porn will not make you a sick pervert or rapist anymore than checking out a horror movie will make you want to slaughter a bunch of teenage kids in a wood. You have to be the kind of person that wants to see children being abused before you would ever dream of looking for it on the internet. If you start making excuses for how these perverts are and blaming it on things that are the end result rather than the cause, then you are focusing on the wrong issue.
 
uh...oh...were talking about porn....sirens...sirens...

good thoughts watcher...i got something to add...

. As long as it is legal and nobody is getting hurt or being forced to do anything they don't want to do then i have no problem with porn.

some people like it when it hurts...and it's legal...so...

The problem is that there are people out there that are sick and twisted and are not satisfied with what is normal or legal. Those people are not that way because they have seen porn however. They are like that because they are born that way.

i agree...although monsters can be made as well...they are not all born...

from what i'm learning now...is that ordinary human beings...have the potential for great good...and great evil...i think we like to think of evil people as isolated incidences...derived from certain genetic markers...yet history shows that people follow leaders...and whatever those leaders proclaim...no matter how terrible...people will execute orders....no matter how terrible...

so...my point is...Don't be sheep...hold yourself accountable and responsible for your actions...
 
Soulgasm said:
some people like it when it hurts...and it's legal...so...

Hehe, true enough, but again as long as everyone involved is okay with what is going on then i don't have an issue with it.


Soulgasm said:
i agree...although monsters can be made as well...they are not all born...

from what i'm learning now...is that ordinary human beings...have the potential for great good...and great evil...i think we like to think of evil people as isolated incidences...derived from certain genetic markers...yet history shows that people follow leaders...and whatever those leaders proclaim...no matter how terrible...people will execute orders....no matter how terrible...

True again, however i tend to believe that only those with an inclination towards evil in the first place are willing to go along with the actions and orders of another evil person. A person with a solid moral code will choose to disobey those orders that he or she considers to be wrong, even at the risk to their own well being.

We all have the potential to be good or evil, however some are mentally incapable of knowing the difference and where the line is, or more to the point don't care to see it. They are the ones that you have to worry about.

Soulgasm said:
so...my point is...Don't be sheep...hold yourself accountable and responsible for your actions...

On that one, i could not agree more! 😉
 
First of all, no, porn does not make you a rapist, I definitely agree about that. But, porn very often gives young guys a wrong view on sex and women. Yes I say guys and I mean guys 'cause let's face it it's mostly guys watch porn since it's made for guys, and there's a reason many girls/women feel sick when watching porn. I'm sure there are movies with lots of nudity and sex that give people a great and realistic view on sex but they're pretty few, most porno movies are very sexistic. Porn is not just about wanting to see naked people, heh...
And again, although I don't agree about the "perverts are born that way"-theory, I am not saying that porn makes you a pervert or a rapist. But, what is a "rapist"? Most rapists do not attack strange girls in the middle of the night, most rapists rape someone they know, or is involved with in a way or another, or like an almost-girlfriend or whatever.. and they would probably not even consider themselves a rapist, although they did force someone to have sex with them, or did sexual stuff to a person although that person didn't want that and so on.
And that kind of things have a lot to do with porn, in my opinion. To me, porn is in many ways responsible for the weird views on sexuality in our society... and that has got nothing to do with me thinking it's wrong to want to see naked people, it's got to do with the fact that porn is totally sexistic and to me it's unbelievable how anyone can find that kind of stuff interesting in any way... It's just completely horrible to me...
 
S
Soulgasm
good thoughts....porn...for the young...can be misleading...
I totally agree with you hun, 100% (I was gonna rep ya, but can't 😛)

ALL of my guy friends watch porn, and I was subjected to watching it the other day, and I can't really see the point of it... I'd watch the "talk-show" ones, but only because it's fricken hilarious some of the stuff they talk about.. But I don't see the appeal of watching other people have sex... I wouldn't want anyone else watching me... AND I don't know what other people are doing in their bedrooms, but in mine, it's DEFINATELY not what they show in porn... I've seen animals mating that were more genuine than that... Some of the things they say... How is that a turn-on AT ALL??
 
Epo, i've no idea how things are where you are but from my experience i know as many girls who check out porn as i do guys. I absolutely disagree with your comment that porn is more a guy thing simply because i don't believe that to be true. Guys might be more blatant and open about it but girls are far from innocent in that respect.

At the end of the day it would depend on what kind of porn you are talking about. Softcore is pretty much just about checking out naked girls (or guys) where as hardcore is images or movies of sexual activities. Either kind is not a problem as long as it does not include acts that are not acceptable in society, be that rape, child molestation or whatever else.

The fact is that you are getting it a little backwards. Nothing you see in porn videos or magazines is anything new. It has all been going on for as long as humankind has existed. The only difference is that now it is appearing in magazines and on the internet more frequently and in greater amounts. That said, i stand by my belief that people will still only hunt for what turns them on anyway. Most people who have a normal attitude towards sex will only ever want to see the legal stuff. Those that are looking for the illegal stuff will find that in the same way that they will be the ones that carry out the acts in real life.

It isn't porn that is changing peoples attitudes towards sex, it's the attitudes of certain people that are creating the offensive porn.
 
S
Soulgasm
in certain cultures...objectification of woman does go far far back...
The Watcher said:
The fact is that you are getting it a little backwards. Nothing you see in porn videos or magazines is anything new. It has all been going on for as long as humankind has existed. The only difference is that now it is appearing in magazines and on the internet more frequently and in greater amounts. That said, i stand by my belief that people will still only hunt for what turns them on anyway. Most people who have a normal attitude towards sex will only ever want to see the legal stuff. Those that are looking for the illegal stuff will find that in the same way that they will be the ones that carry out the acts in real life.

Okay, I have a problem with this... Completely... It goes without saying that what they used to show, in ancient egyptian times, and what you're referring to, is in no way the same category as the pornography today... The act of sex used to be seen as a way to pay tribute to the Gods and Goddesses and it was said that you never reached true Nirvana, and was seen as a natural and blissful act, not the way its seen now. It's been objectified, and made to seem more like a carnal act. Why do you think that they made it a "sin" to do so before marriage? (But I'm not getting into religious discussions)... Not only that, but women have also been objectified by it, in the sexual acts "perfomed" in porn, making them the submissive beings. Why is it that a woman who has "been with" the same amount of partners as a man is seen as dirty (for lack of a family-board word), where as the man is praised?
 
The reason I believe girls like watching porn less than guys is not 'cause girls are more innocent or anything, it's because porn is obviously made for guys. I don't know any girls who watch porn, I know lots of guys though. The reason my (girl) friends don't watch porn is because they (like me) feel sick when they do and consider it to be sexistic and humiliating. It's definitely objectifying women. (And humiliating both to men and women, in my opinion.)

The Watcher said:
That said, i stand by my belief that people will still only hunt for what turns them on anyway. Most people who have a normal attitude towards sex will only ever want to see the legal stuff.
Yeah maybe you and me have different opinions about what's a "normal attitude" towards sex. But I very much believe porn makes people attitudes pretty un-normal.
To quote Amber Benson, heh, "AND I don't know what other people are doing in their bedrooms, but in mine, it's DEFINATELY not what they show in porn..."
 
Well personally i wouldn't call a girl "dirty" just because she has slept with a number of guys anymore than i would a guy. I don't see there to be a difference in that respect no matter what sex you are and, again, neither do the majority of the people i know.

As far as porn making women out to be submissive, well i'm sure that is true for certain movies but i've seen just as many where the woman is the forceful, dominant one who is instigating the action and getting equally as much pleasure from it as the guy. Again, i'm not saying that all porn movies are like this but in the same way you can't condemn porn with this argument as it is not true overall.

As for your Egyptian example, that may well be true for that culture, but i was talking about the wider issue. Everyone from the first cavemen to the ancient greeks through to Elizabethan society. There has always been a culture of pornography and explicit sexual activity. I would imagine that there was most likely a great number of the Egyptians you mentioned who were a lot more into the sex than paying tribute to the Gods regardless of what went down in the history books.

Basically i'll go back to what i originally said. People are people and there will always be those that are perverted and depraved. They are not that way because they have seen porn, they are that way because they are inclined to be that way. It's in their nature. They may check out porn as a result but it is not to be blamed. If it was then every guy on the planet would be a danger to women and children sooner or later and that is just not the case.

Epo, i get that you and your circle of friends may not like porn but i would still argue that porn is not just made for guys, simply because i know too many girls who enjoy it as well. As for porn altering your attitude towards sex, all it has ever done for me is make my sex life better. Nothing like getting a few pointers from the experts! 😀
 
The Watcher said:
Epo, i get that you and your circle of friends may not like porn but i would still argue that porn is not just made for guys, simply because i know too many girls who enjoy it as well. As for porn altering your attitude towards sex, all it has ever done for me is make my sex life better. Nothing like getting a few pointers from the experts! 😀
I don't even know what to say. I disagree with you so completely that I can't even try... I'm sorry, I'd love to go on with this discussion but I'm pretty sure I'd break my computer, heh, I just care about this way too much... (I have problems controlling myself while debating, heh...) I feel a bit weird you saying this is about "me and my circle of friends" having these opinions and thinking this way, since I gotta say I've almost never met anyone who has not got these opinions, to me it's pretty much facts... (Pretty interesting to know there are those people though.)

(And again, I'm not trying to say everyone who watches porn is a pervert or anything, it's got nothing to do with that... But...)
 
eponinethen said:
I don't even know what to say. I disagree with you so completely that I can't even try... I'm sorry, I'd love to go on with this discussion but I'm pretty sure I'd break my computer, heh, I just care about this way too much... (I have problems controlling myself while debating, heh...) I feel a bit weird you saying this is about "me and my circle of friends" having these opinions and thinking this way, since I gotta say I've almost never met anyone who has not got these opinions, to me it's pretty much facts... (Pretty interesting to know there are those people though.)

(And again, I'm not trying to say everyone who watches porn is a pervert or anything, it's got nothing to do with that... But...)

Epo, no offense was intended with my comment about the opinions of you and your friends, i simply meant that you have only your own sphere of reference to work from. My particular circle of friends clearly has a very different attitude to porn and what we consider it's effects on society to be than those in your experience. It's not an insult, i was just pointing out that we clearly come from very different standpoints.

I don't know if it is anything to do with the fact we come from different areas of the world but in my experience the UK has a much more openminded view of legal porn. Obviously no right minded individual will ever argue the case for the perverted images that are out there but all you have to do is listen to the DJ's on the national radio stations and people on television to know that legal porn is become an everyday thing here. It just isn't as frowned upon as it was a decade or so ago. There is little or no stigma to it anymore.

I'm not saying it is for everyone, nor that i think you should check it out yourself if you are so adamantly against it. However it really isn't that big a deal anymore and i have to say i'm surprised that you have the strong views you have on the subject. I get the feeling that if you were to live in the UK for a while you may be surprised to see just how commonly the topic is discussed and acknowledged.
 
The Watcher said:
Epo, no offense was intended with my comment about the opinions of you and your friends, i simply meant that you have only your own sphere of reference to work from. My particular circle of friends clearly has a very different attitude to porn and what we consider it's effects on society to be than those in your experience. It's not an insult, i was just pointing out that we clearly come from very different standpoints.

Yea... I'm gonna step in here a little more... "Pornography" has many different definitions. Whether it be classy nude photos from Playboy, or the hardcore Tom and Pam video, it's all still porn. There is a reason that it is kept for audiences of more maturity. We learn about sex when we are young, atleast, most of us, but still porn is stricken from the sight of younger viewers, mainly because it is smut. It's not sex, the way it was intended to be. I'm not going to preach about what sex should and shouldn't be because well, that's not my place... But I can tell you, that to me, sex means a lot more than what they portray in porn. I'm not condoning anyone who believes it is, because that's your business, not mine.

But you talk about standpoints, like porn has been a way of life since the beginning. Your views of the "beginning" are entirely opinionated, and in no way factual. There is no other way to put it. Porn has, in my opinion and actual historical references, made sex the un-pure and vile act it is today. I'm not saying that sex has changed over the years, but the porn industry has changed the views of sex. In the 17th and 18th centuries, people could engage in sexual intimacy with another person, and no one would care any differently. Now, people use sex as conquests and entertainment, more so than they EVER did before.
 
(Well, yea I just couldn't keep my mouth shut could I..? Heh...)

The Watcher - Wow, you almost sound like I'm being conservative 'caues I'm against porn. Then I don't think you understand my standpoint very well. When you say "anymore", it's like I am old-fashioned 'cause I don't like porn eh?

And yes, I agree that this might have a lot to do with where/how you grow up/live. It must have since we have such different views on what "people in general" think about this. But yes, porn is very common here as well, as I said I too believe most guys watch or have watched porn (not the guys I'm friends with though 'cause they're very much feminists, lol).

You say you're surprised I have such strong views on this, but have you never had this discussion before, are my opinions like strange to you? (Which would be interesting to me since to me they're really really not.)
 
Amber Benson said:
But you talk about standpoints, like porn has been a way of life since the beginning. Your views of the "beginning" are entirely opinionated, and in no way factual. There is no other way to put it. Porn has, in my opinion and actual historical references, made sex the un-pure and vile act it is today. I'm not saying that sex has changed over the years, but the porn industry has changed the views of sex. In the 17th and 18th centuries, people could engage in sexual intimacy with another person, and no one would care any differently. Now, people use sex as conquests and entertainment, more so than they EVER did before.

No, what i said was that the sexual acts you see presented in porn have been a way of life since the beginning. porn itself has been around for a good long time too for that matter but that is beside the point.

My original point, from which we seem to have strayed, is that there is no way that porn is responsible for how people are when it comes to sex. The kind of porn you like is a result of the type of person you are, not the other way round.

Let me put it this way. If i was to see a porn movie that involved a guy raping a girl, this would neither turn me on nor would i want to suddenly go out and do that myself. Neither would i want to watch such a video. the kind of guy that would sit and watch a girl getting raped on film is already the kind of guy that would wish to do the same himself.

Same goes for child molesters. You don't watch a video where a child is being sexually abused unless you are the kind of person who would want to do such a thing anyway. There is no way that somebody in their right mind would sit and watch a child being abused as if it was any old porn video.

It's the people that make the porn, not the porn that makes the people, simple as that.

As for porn making sex vile and unpure, well i can only speak from personal experience but i've seen porn movies from being a teenager and my sex life is anything but vile or unpure, quite the opposite. But again that is down to the individual and what they take from watching porn. If a person wants to be vile then they will be vile regardless of what they watch, if they want a good, solid sex life with plenty of variety in the bedroom then they will take that from the movies.

Again, and i'm going to leave it here because i think i've put my views across and don't want to start repeating myself, porn itself is not the problem because many normal people enjoy it and use it as a healthy part of their sex life. The problem is the perverts whose tendencies are not so healthy or normal but they would be that way regardless of what movies they watch.
 
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