Are the comics worth reading?

[Silverspike]

Oh It's nothing to do with the choice, It's the fact that Whedon didn't actually let he make a Real decision there by his stupid 'she's a robot' get out clause.

 

[Puffy]

The pregnancy/robot fakeout is insulting.
The began by "seemingly" studying the pregnancy theme and attracted a lot of serious discussions. Then they say "just kidding! No pregnancy at all!"

The dull parts: W&H quest, Billy. And just any issue in which Willow/Xander/Dawn are absent. Dowling/Billy/Koh are not interesting enough to support a new Scooby gang.

We differ, but I understand your point. 😉
 

Oh It's nothing to do with the choice, It's the fact that Whedon didn't actually let he make a Real decision there by his stupid 'she's a robot' get out clause.

Perhaps I am too forgiving when it comes to (Mastermind) Joss Whedon, but for me its a perfect example of "expect the unexpected" 😉

 

[gite63]

Oh It's nothing to do with the choice, It's the fact that Whedon didn't actually let he make a Real decision there by his stupid 'she's a robot' get out clause.

But for me, the important thing is the mind, the choice; it was as real as it gets. The issue was addressed, and then the plot went on as it should in a fantasy story. If she went through the abortion - wouldn't that affect Buffy in some way? Right after, or years ahead, when she is old and maybe regret not being a mother, or whatever? Would people who like BtVS be interested in follow this type of storyline? It's the same thing with her having the baby - I was sure that she would not be a mother, because that's not a story for Buffy, for the Buffyverse. So, it was something unusual that happened with the lead character, and it turned out to be more "crappy Slayer stuff", and I'm OK with that...

 

[Silverspike]

For me there is 'unexpected' but well written compared to just plain stupid. I file the robot pregnancy idea under the latter.

Because Buffy was in a damn robot it meant the whole set up made her decision pointless. There was no real consequences behind it.

 

[Puffy]

For me there is 'unexpected' but well written compared to just plain stupid. I file the robot pregnancy idea under the latter.

Because Buffy was in a damn robot it meant the whole set up made her decision pointless. There was no real consequences behind it.

Your are only looking at theater utensils. Its the modern times shakesphear Joss Whedon. Its all about the metaphors.

 

[gite63]

I file the robot pregnancy idea under the latter.

Well, her body could have been really pregnant, and the mind in the robot could have picked that out and made it "real" for Buffy, and then when mind and body were reunited, she would have gone through the abortion... better? 😳 I prefer the comics...
 

Because Buffy was in a damn robot it meant the whole set up made her decision pointless. There was no real consequences behind it.

But Buffy (if she wasn't a robot) could miscarry the baby while fighting the zompires. Still, her prior decision would be valid IMO. But it would be a very poor way to get rid of the baby - and of the issue. The robot was more unexpected and interesting - and addressed other things, like the old Buffy's idea of having a normal, suburban life.

 

[Silverspike]

None of it was valid imo. Her so called pregnancy was an illusion. It would have taken more guts to have made it 'real'. I mean even the damn robot wasn't pregnant! 😀

See, pointless, but of course Whedon and co made great publicity from it, as if it was somehow groundbreaking.

 

[vellavu]

See, pointless, but of course Whedon and co made great publicity from it.

Yes!

I love the Buffy/Satsu part and I have not much problem with Angel Big Bad part, though some people accused them to be PR stunts.
But the Buffybot pregnancy part? I have to agree it is PR stunt. And I can smell some desperation in it.

 

[thetopher]

Female body violation by a guy used as a plot device, again, and it sucked, again.
What Andrew did to Buffy- something very akin to date-rape since he did it to her wiithout her consent after drugging her- was pretty unforgivable. And during the subsequent plotline where its revealed and their busily hunting the 'real' Buffy, he's continually making dumb nerd-jokes and not at all sorry. Quite frrankly I was stunned by the cruddiness of the storyline and simply wanted Spike to kick Andrew's teeth in. Alas he did not.

At least we focused on Buffy's reaction to events this time, but all-in-all it felt like half-cop out, half-did they really just do that to the main character?

Veronica Mars did a much better (and more heartbreaking) story about the main heroine waking up after a night of badness, that led to real drama. This in contrast was utter drivel that that failed thematically and dramatically. It was a childish, attention-grabbing trick I would expect from a hack soap writer.

 

[vellavu]

What Andrew did to Buffy- something very akin to date-rape since he did it to her wiithout her consent after drugging her- was pretty unforgivable.

After rereading I now have a new viewpoint to the Andrew stuff.

The Scooby gang treat Andrew as a kid. His real age is not important. Buffy is a parent of Andrew. This is why he's forgiven, because he's not an adult. This thought makes me feel better and can enjoy his jokes a little more.

 

[thetopher]

The Scooby gang treat Andrew as a kid. His real age is not important. Buffy is a parent of Andrew. This is why he's forgiven, because he's not an adult.

Under understand your view but...

Immaturity is dangerous when coupled with power/ability.
I mean, Glory was basically a child- spoilt and self-centred- but she was incredibly powerful and insane as well.
Anya was pretty much emotionally a child for much of the show but she still spent an entire episode trying to get Buffy and co. to wish harmful death on Xander (because she couldn't do it herself).

Immaturity doesn't negate responsibility, otherwise Faith and Connor should totally get a pass for killing people in cold blood as well, but they don't.

To be honest, imo this was possibly the worst thing done to Buffy in terms of personal violation. Weeks, possibly up to a month of being out of sorts, of throwing up, of wondering about a possible scary future, of having to face it alone, of freaking out about how she can't deal with normal life problems, etc. All that angst.
And it was all a lie concocted by a horrid little man-child who failed what he was trying to do in the first place- protect Buffy from Simone- because Simone finds the real Buffy anyway, kidnaps her and easily could've killed her.
The Buffybot thing is probably the main reason I hate Andrew and why I think he should die.

...No actually, thats not it. Its the fact that he's one of those characters that's allowed to do whatever he wants; mess up, kill, betray/violate trust, make stupid jokes, put lives in danger, with no consequence for himself because he's always forgiven (hell, sometimes he's apologised to because people might've made him feel bad), allowed to be whoever he is because certain fans like him that way and never really changes.
He's shallow, stupid and loathsome.

 

[gite63]

And Willow violated Tara's mind (and some argue she violated her body), and Faith violated Riley, and Angel violated the minds of all his friends, and Faith violated Buffy's body; what Andrew did was wrong, but this PC BS that any silly story cannot be written - in a fantasy show - because the character is a female, is what offends me. Concerning the lack of punishment for Andrew - other characters did worse things than him, and all of them got a pat on the back as soon as things were sorted out.

 

[Silverspike]

I'm afraid what offends me more is crap writing....😀

 

[thetopher]

And Willow violated Tara's mind (and some argue she violated her body), and Faith violated Riley, and Angel violated the minds of all his friends, and Faith violated Buffy's body;

And all of them went to greater lengths to make amends to their victims that say, oh, NONE. (And none of them were as bad as 'Now, I replace you with a robot double, stick your soul in that robot for weeks without telling you, and give your actual body some residual programming so it can potter about in suburbia. ' yeah, real smart plan.

Willow got dumped by Tara (rightly so) and had to hit rock bottom, become a pathetic junkie, give up magic, but it was too late and she ended up losing Tara forever.
Faith recently saved Riley's life from vamps, and also went to prison partly on Buffy's say so- but she clearly thinks she has more to do to make amends for what she's done- even now.
Angel did what he for Connor, to save his son- wrong but he was kinda desperate, He had to sell his soul to do it. And he accepted the consequences of those actions- see the end of S5.

Andrew went on to steal the book of magic from his 'friends' so he could ham-fistedly resurrect Tara because he felt guilty and felt like his 'friends' were judging him.
And in the end they apologised to him!!

what Andrew did was wrong, but this PC BS that any silly story cannot be written

Not any silly story, how about just rape-attempts and date-rape. Not when the writers have no clue how to write about the victims of such things as body-violation.

in a fantasy show - because the character is a female, is what offends me.

Boo frigging hoo. I'm offended by actual offensive things, not by other people thinking something's offensive. 🙄

Concerning the lack of punishment for Andrew - other characters did worse things than him, and all of them got a pat on the back as soon as things were sorted out.

Uh, murdered and betrayed their best friend even though they knew it was wrong? Screw up as a Watcher so badly that Simone became a power-hungry psycho-slayer, creates an extinct demon race that he can't control, does what he did to Buffy, the book theft...

Andrew never, ever recieves any 'punishment' (he had a good cry once when he thought Buffy might hurt him) at all. He gets free passes all the time. And it isn't like he's useful or anything, he's simple comic relief. He is utterly expendable kept alive because he's funny.
Characters need more than that to justify their existance imo, especially when they act in such a way.

 

[gite63]

And in the end they apologised to him!!

And it isn't like he's useful or anything, he's simple comic relief. He is utterly expendable kept alive because he's funny.

Well, Xander apologised to Angel!

Seriously, the key word is "comic relief". And they have use for him here and there, sometimes overusing (in the comics), I agree, but I don't mind; the things he does and are dismissed quickly happens because he is not as important as the other characters.

 

[thetopher]

Seriously, the key word is "comic relief".

Yeah, Jonathan got murdered by the comic relief. No big deal right? Nope, evil is evil. Stupid, dangerous things do not get undone simply because of the person doing it. Actions have consequences, or at least should do. Lessons should be learned.

Well, Xander apologised to Angel!

That was more about Xander and his silly therapy/anger issues than Angel. Angel pretty much said that he deserved to get beaten up like that (I more than agree) and dismissed the apology as unnessesary.
Willow apologised to Andrew for Andrew, it was disgusting given what he'd tried to do.

Btw, this one of the things that's crap about Buffy S10- characters saying dumb shit to each other.

 

[HowiMetdaSlayer]

After reading all that, I'm still not sure. I would like to check out that new Buffy High School Years one coming up, tho. Maybe a few of the Willow (&Tara) centric comics too.