BillieHunter
~**Hillbilly Hunter**~
yes there evil but its not necassarily their fault. They have no souls, no conscience. Therefore, no ideas of right and wrong. They just kill to survive, sorta.
WatcherWes
When we were muck
Lady Lavina, are you retarded? You think it was a feat of strength on Buffy's part that she was able to stab Angel in the stomach? He had just had the curse reapplied to him, and was very much confused, and as souled Angel, had no intention of hurting Buffy.
Jacklyn
Now a Scapenerd too...
Respect each others opinions or expect the closing of this thread! Name calling is for Kindergarten Children. Let's have a civilized discussion here.
WatcherWes
When we were muck
there was no opinion disagreement here, Lavina made a statement that made no sense, and I called her/him on it
A
Allycat
Guest
Jacklyn
Now a Scapenerd too...
Thank You Allycat. Now if we can't agree to disagree without the overt insults, I will close this thread. This board is meant for people to share their opinions with each other-nobody should be shot down when they do.
A
Allycat
Guest
WatcherWes
When we were muck
yes, I can. They are evil. They are sentient but lack souls. They may not feel the guilt that should go along with murder, but they certainly know of other options that would maintain their health, and choose to ignore them.
killerdwarf
Scooby
LadyLavinia:
Just because someone doesn't moan, groan and self-flagellate doesn't mean that they don't feel remorse (oooo, a triple negative...could I be any less direct?) Remorse is not always expressed, to the victim especially, but IMO most people will feel it. It's the way they react to it that determines the goodness, or lack thereof, of the person. If you get in someone's face right after an act and expect guilt or remorse, you probably won't get it...that comes later, after the true ramifications come clear, and after some reflection on the act. You can tell the ones on the evil train...they are the ones who justify their hurtful actions unequivocally, deny they were hurtful, refuse to apologize or even acknowledge any harm, and actively attack the person/people who call them on their actions. Guilt is a strong motivator, even in these jaded times. Even you seem a bit cynical...hope it's just a passing thing...
Just because someone doesn't moan, groan and self-flagellate doesn't mean that they don't feel remorse (oooo, a triple negative...could I be any less direct?) Remorse is not always expressed, to the victim especially, but IMO most people will feel it. It's the way they react to it that determines the goodness, or lack thereof, of the person. If you get in someone's face right after an act and expect guilt or remorse, you probably won't get it...that comes later, after the true ramifications come clear, and after some reflection on the act. You can tell the ones on the evil train...they are the ones who justify their hurtful actions unequivocally, deny they were hurtful, refuse to apologize or even acknowledge any harm, and actively attack the person/people who call them on their actions. Guilt is a strong motivator, even in these jaded times. Even you seem a bit cynical...hope it's just a passing thing...
BillieHunter
~**Hillbilly Hunter**~
many people do not understand how hurtful it is to be called that unless you know somebody who does have a learning disability, but lets just drop it and go back to teh subject,
A
Allycat
Guest
nerd4hire
Certified Uncloneable
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2002
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When I consider this Good/Evil question as relates to Buffy Characters, I can't help thinking of the whole Freudian; Id, Ego, Superego thing.
Take Angel for example. You can divide him into three separate personas
Id Angel; would be Angelus. He is a slave to his most basic motivations, and hubris such as self-gratification and vanity.
Ego Angel; would be Season 3 Angel, where he is only concerned with what's functional in order to combat Evil, and has no concern with what it takes to be Good. He has guilt, but he can ignore it, if it gets the job done.
Superego Angel: would be Angel. He's the complete package. He still has Id Angel's desires, but they are controled by guilt. He has Ego Angel's need to get the job done, but now he is also motivated by the full range of human emotion. It's no longer enough to stop evil. Now he has to create good.
You can do the same thing with Spike.
Id Spike would be season 1 Spike, where the only thing that matters to him is what makes him feel good at the time.
Ego Spike would be chipped Spike, where his priorities would be governed by what he can and can't do to get what he wants. He wants Buffy.
Superego Spike would be the ensouled Spike we're starting to see now who is willing to sacrifice his own gratification, or need for self preservation to create happiness for others.
Take Angel for example. You can divide him into three separate personas
Id Angel; would be Angelus. He is a slave to his most basic motivations, and hubris such as self-gratification and vanity.
Ego Angel; would be Season 3 Angel, where he is only concerned with what's functional in order to combat Evil, and has no concern with what it takes to be Good. He has guilt, but he can ignore it, if it gets the job done.
Superego Angel: would be Angel. He's the complete package. He still has Id Angel's desires, but they are controled by guilt. He has Ego Angel's need to get the job done, but now he is also motivated by the full range of human emotion. It's no longer enough to stop evil. Now he has to create good.
You can do the same thing with Spike.
Id Spike would be season 1 Spike, where the only thing that matters to him is what makes him feel good at the time.
Ego Spike would be chipped Spike, where his priorities would be governed by what he can and can't do to get what he wants. He wants Buffy.
Superego Spike would be the ensouled Spike we're starting to see now who is willing to sacrifice his own gratification, or need for self preservation to create happiness for others.
killerdwarf
Scooby
Awesome analysis N4H. I never really thought of those characters in Freudian terms and in quite that way (never really got into Freud). That dovetails nicely with the soul theory from the "Definitions" thread!
As it has been said by Jacklyn lets just stick to the original topic. And that goes for everyone. Otherwise the thread will be closed.
If anyone wishes to discuss this with me further then they may do so via pm.