As a parent, do you understand why Angel did what he did?
- Thread starter Joshua
- Start date
Honestly... probably yes. It's not really something I'm proud over I suppose but if someone threatened to do something or did something to my kid... oh man, the term 'seeing red' makes a lot of sense all of a sudden.
BuffyElevated
Scooby
I agree with [MENTION=9799]Taake[/MENTION]. As a mother, I can definitely attest to the fact that no one knows rage until their children have been threatened. I know Angel was trying to make the best life possible for Connor, and I can accept that was what was in his mind when he did what he did.
patriot1123
... in a tutu. Pillock.
Agree with both responses. As a mother, I'd go into full grizzly bear mode if someone threatened, or harmed, my child.
Taake
lol, yuppers. Just the thought of it gives me an eye-twitch and a grizzly growl building somewhere in the back of my throat ;)
BuffyElevated
Scooby
Definitely. I have a bad temper, anyway, and when someone messes with my kids, it's like I turn into the She Hulk or something. A few weeks ago a little girl pushed my oldest off the slide at the playground and we thought Emily's back was broken... I think I officially terrified all the kids in the neighborhood. LOL
patriot1123
... in a tutu. Pillock.
Yikes - was Emily okay?
BuffyElevated
Yeah... She was sore for a couple days but she didn't break anything... The fall did knock the wind out of her, though, and seeing my child in pain and not being able to breathe brought out Big Bad Momma.
white avenger
white avenger
It's understandable that, as a parent, Angel would be mad, as in snarling, clawing, snapping, furious at Wes for endangering Connor's life, regardless of the very best of intentions, and I can completely agree with his initial actions in this case. I do find it more than a little bit ironic, however, that Angel would act the way that he did, considering that Wes was acting, as far as he knew, with the greater, ultimate good in mind, in not discussing his fears and beliefs with someone else before acting. This is the very thing that Angel himself has done time and again, making decisions that affect the very lives of others without so much as giving them the courtesy of knowing what he was about to do or had done. That's why I see so much poetic justice in Season 5, when his plan to erase Connor's memory from all of the others came around and bit him squarely in the ass.
Just as a side thought, how were a couple of human hospital orderlies able to restrain a quite obviously furious super powerful vampire? Do the hospitals in LA hire their own super powerful demons for just such emergencies? That would make an interesting story. Vampires as working stiffs, working, not for peanuts, but for blood.
Just as a side thought, how were a couple of human hospital orderlies able to restrain a quite obviously furious super powerful vampire? Do the hospitals in LA hire their own super powerful demons for just such emergencies? That would make an interesting story. Vampires as working stiffs, working, not for peanuts, but for blood.
K
kittenpoker
excellent points!! and I think the hospital orderlies more like helped snap angel back to his senses more than anything else.
Skytteflickan88
Proud Spikette
Since I'm not a parent, I just came to this thread to say that if Angel wanted Wesley dead, he'd be dead. They might both have thought Angel wanted to kill Wesley at the time, and I think Angel accepted that as a possibility, but Angel didn't really want it. He seemed enough able to control himself, from what I remember(been a while since I saw the ep), talking to Wesley at first, which seemed weird. It's almost like he choose to lose control, or giuve in to his darker impulses. Maybe he even debated in his head wherther he should or shouldn't kill Wesley, and for a moment the pro-kill arguments won.
Now, as a non-parent, I can still say I understand why Angel lost control, while still being able to say his reaction isn't ideal (I personally never blamed Wesley, he acted well considering the info he had).
xfivebyfive
Because its Fate.
I'm not a parent but I think angel is totally justified in trying to kill Wesley. It was his son. He loves Connor more then anything in the world. Wesley was his friend and he betrayed him.
brinkster130
[No message]
kittenpoker
Raising penguins in Guam
I can understand angel's feelings. This is one of those (I believe) - you can't really know what you'd to till you're there - things. But my kids mean more to me than anything in the world. I'm sure I would die and kill for them. But I'm really on team wesley here (as a viewer). This whole story arc makes me love him just so much more.
Not a parent. I do have a niece though, and while I don't think it very much compares, I do feel a maternal instinct towards her. Especially considering her mother...lacks in that department, so I look out for her in places where her mother does not.
I understand Angel. Losing that baby when he was exactly that, a baby is a really hard blow...not getting to watch him grow up, experience all of his milestones. If anyone did something to my niece or any one of my family members for that matter, I'd wager that person would want to leave town.
For this argument though, I think I will always side with Wesley. I just can't help it. His life is so terrible. I think he certainly got the shortest straw in the Buffyverse (though Giles comes close). Also I don't think Wes really betrayed Angel. It's a whole lot more complicated than that. He had the child's best interests in mind and while pretty damn crazy from seeing hallucinations, freaky dreams, and prophecies unfold before his eyes, I'd say he made a decent choice.
I understand Angel. Losing that baby when he was exactly that, a baby is a really hard blow...not getting to watch him grow up, experience all of his milestones. If anyone did something to my niece or any one of my family members for that matter, I'd wager that person would want to leave town.
For this argument though, I think I will always side with Wesley. I just can't help it. His life is so terrible. I think he certainly got the shortest straw in the Buffyverse (though Giles comes close). Also I don't think Wes really betrayed Angel. It's a whole lot more complicated than that. He had the child's best interests in mind and while pretty damn crazy from seeing hallucinations, freaky dreams, and prophecies unfold before his eyes, I'd say he made a decent choice.
You......all do realize that Angel would have killed and fed off of Connor, right? Just sayin'.
I won't disagree that Wes should have opened his mouth and voiced what was on his mind concerning all of that, that wasn't too kosher.....but it doesn't change the fact that Angel was a little bit out of his mind and Wes needed to get that boy away.
I won't disagree that Wes should have opened his mouth and voiced what was on his mind concerning all of that, that wasn't too kosher.....but it doesn't change the fact that Angel was a little bit out of his mind and Wes needed to get that boy away.
brinkster130
Riley's BFF
I'm not a parent, but I do find Angel's actions understandable. He was not only betrayed by one of him closest friends but he lost his son as well. I can't imagine a parent who wouldn't be absolutely devastated and furious in that situation.
But we don't know that for sure, right? I thought the prophecy "The father will kill the son" wasn't real. 😕
But we don't know that for sure, right? I thought the prophecy "The father will kill the son" wasn't real. 😕
Taake
exactly, and also Angel realized that his blood was being spiked by W&H
Hale Caesar
Sunnydale Nerd
Prophecy's in the Buffyverse are never 100% accurate. I'm not a parent but I can understand where Angel is coming from, Wesley stole his son and he was pissed. It was Wesley's fault for not telling anyone, he should have told Cordelia or someone what he was thinking
Hmmm, these moral issues is why I love Angel 😀
brinkster130
[No message]
^ Again, I won't argue that Wes should have said something. That's what wasn't so cool. And I do understand that any parent would be angry at having their kid taken that way, but I'm still not gonna fault Wes for wanting to protect the boy.
The prophecy wasn't real, but prophecy or no, the physical reality of the situation was that Angel was behaving erratically around the baby and borderline hungry vamp. He just wasn't right in the head, and Wesley felt he needed to act to keep that baby safe. His intentions were not evil in any sense of the word.
But again, I will not defend Wes in HOW he handled it, including trusting the enemy concerning that situation.
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The prophecy wasn't real, but prophecy or no, the physical reality of the situation was that Angel was behaving erratically around the baby and borderline hungry vamp. He just wasn't right in the head, and Wesley felt he needed to act to keep that baby safe. His intentions were not evil in any sense of the word.
But again, I will not defend Wes in HOW he handled it, including trusting the enemy concerning that situation.
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Willow My Love
Scooby
I agree with what people have said here. I don't think that Angel really wanted him dead, or he'd have been dead. I think it was more symbolic to show him that he cold kill him, and he needed to get far, far away from Angel & company.
I understand why Wesley thought he had to do what he did, but he really should have talked to someone about what he read. He should have taken into account how Angel would deal with this. Wes zeroed in on that one thing and blocked everyone and everything else out, when he really needed to let, at least, one person in on what he was thinking.
I understand why Wesley thought he had to do what he did, but he really should have talked to someone about what he read. He should have taken into account how Angel would deal with this. Wes zeroed in on that one thing and blocked everyone and everything else out, when he really needed to let, at least, one person in on what he was thinking.
VisionGirl
Newly Human
I agree with everyone else- as a parent, I completely understand Angel going bat-shit crazy. I do feel sympathy for Wes though. And no, I don't agree that Angel would have inevitably hurt Connor. They found out about the spiked blood, and while there would always be that kind of danger (& other types too) lurking around while trying to raise a child, it's the good thing about having a team to help. Angel had learned that he couldn't do it by himself, especially with the particular dangers surrounding Connor's birth. Even though Wes believed in Angel, he never really did trust him. But he should have gone to him, or someone. But he allowed the Fred & Gunn thing to put a wedge between him & the rest of the gang (besides, Cordelia was gone when all this was happening). So, maybe Wes never really trusted ANYBODY.