I know there is a preception that all ''pro-life'' people are dogmatic and tribalistic morons. If you have this view, don't worry, I partially agree with you! sometimes they annoy me too with their leaky arguments especially when they invoke the 'God argument' which is a non sequitur. By all means, my point of view is not set in stone, and I am open to criticism.
''Pro-choice'' arguments however are also not without their faults, in my opinion, major faults. Of both camps ''Pro-choice'' people annoy me the most, as they patronize people with caricaturizes of complex and important issues, triviallizing monumentally important moral and social issues.
I enjoy a good laugh as much as the next person, but some of the Pro-choice slogan campaigns are not at all funny, especially when they are without a basis in reality, and are designed to influence public opinion.
This. If people can accept Willow wanting to destroy the world or Anya, the funny serial killer, I don't see how an abortion can be such a big deal. Mind you, I'd much rather not have any of the "good" guys be murderers but since many of them are the line has already been crossed long time ago.
It's a show where demons kills people and even some of the 'heroes' kill people
The thread has evolved from one discussing Joss' Buffy abortion story, and how it seems completely uncharacteristic of her, especially due to her previously being a role model of 'Protecting the innocent'. To now being a discussion generally debating the morality of Abortion in the real world.
SPOILER - Willow never killed anyone, as revealed in Season 8, furthermore wanting to kill 7 billion people, and actually doing it, are two completely different things.
Anya - As a human, she never kills a single person. On reverting to being a Demon again she ultimately does kill those college guys, but once again she is stripped of being a demon and reverts back to being human again.
Like Anya, is Angel guilty of all those murders when he had no soul? I personally don't think so, but would like to hear other points of view.
True there is a questionable moral message in the episode 'Once More With Feeling' it could be construed that Xander is an accessory to murder. But at best this argument really doesn't stand up.
Both Faith and Andrew, and to a degree Giles, all have killed at least 1 person. Giles' murder is morally justified, Faith spent time in jail and repents and begins to make amends, but importantly
her immoral actions are never forgotten. The same applies to Andrew.
If someone doesn't want an abortion then that's fine, but if they do then that should be up to them.
The idea that someone can tell me what I shouldn't be doing with my own body is appalling imo. If you can't even allow women the choice to make up their own minds about something predominantly affecting their own lives... screw what anyone else thinks.
The attitude of ''screw what anyone else thinks'', or ''it's may body I can do what I want'' is something I too have subscribed to at one time. However as I got over my irrational adolescence I realized that, these attitudes are morally bankrupt
Here's an example why:
Is tax money not forced out of your wallet in order to fund research for STD's, and Abortion clinics etc? Money forced out of your pocket to help those who selfishly and irresponsibly conducted sexual activities? How then was the sexual act a private matter between two consenting adults when it clearly has a much larger impact than you wish to acknowledge?
I'm certainly glad in my country Money that could be better spent on more virtuous tasks like child education and adoption services, isn't being squandered on abortion clinics.
Granted it is being squandered in other ways but at least I'm not paying for murder- which is the case in many countries, like Canada were a woman can have an abortion right up to her deliverly date, right up to 9 months.
Surely no sane minded person can stomach that, I sure can't.
So how then can you honestly say ''screw what anyone else thinks''?
I have sympathy for young people, or drunk people who did not know what they were doing and end up with an STD or become accidentally pregnant with a random person.
However if a grown person presents themselves with the attitude ''Screw what anyone else thinks'', I think that person should really think about what they are actually saying, by imagining what the world would be like if everyone acted like that.
As Cordelia eloquently puts it in How she was bad - 'Spank your inner moppet, and get over it/yourself'.
As I've already mentioned we have no qualms about Male Conscription, and mandatory male military service. Men getting told they have to do certain 'things' with their bodies.
Many nations ensure that their male youth are trained in war, despite a lot of men not being too keen on the idea of spending 2+ years in boot camp.
(the following isn't a popular opinion, I know, but I'd still like to hear criticism and responses)
It is the responsibility of men to defend their home and country (even if they don't want to), much like it is the responsibilty of women to, once they get pregnant, to have the baby.
Both Genders have to do things they may not 100% want to do, but that's life.
At the end of the day, most abortions are simply women shirking their responsibility.
I can imagine that feminists would not agree, and many of you might be outraged, but the way I see it, I am not blind women do have a role, as they do things much better than men. Likewise men do certain things better than women.
We all have our parts to play, to help each other and keep the world safe and protect the innocent.
I know this is controversial, but as ever, would love to continue to discuss it with you.
But the furore over what is a Buffy plot makes me laugh in all honesty, It's a show where demons kills people and even some of the 'heroes' kill people, yet you don't see the same hysteria.[/I]
The Show also includes moral lessons and real world analogies. Fact of the matter is, people look up to the Buffy character, she is a role model to millions of men & women. BtVS is not in its own hermetically sealed bubble, its stories are very real and do have an impact on readers and the real world, a reality that Joss is clearly aware of, even if you disagree.
Furthermore you are caricaturizing the opposition to this story. I'm not seeing any hysteria at all. Could you perhaps point it out?
