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white avenger

white avenger
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Most people here by now know about my obsession with Edgar Rice Burroughs' character, John Carter and my disappointment that the movie didn't get the praise and success that it rightly deserved. For those few other fans on the Boards, I just thought that you might be interested in this interview with Lynn Collins. (It's an old interview, but I hadn't seen it until today)

(Anyone who would name her sword "Kitten" just has to be cool)

http://www.adventuresbydaddy.com/20...n-carter-andrew-stanton-and-her-sword-kitten/
 
Hmm, you know that I like the book and really didn't like the movie, but maybe I need to give it a second chance. And I definitely need to keep reading in the series. Oh- and I do really like Lynn Collins. Great interview!
 
Hmm, you know that I like the book and really didn't like the movie, but maybe I need to give it a second chance. And I definitely need to keep reading in the series. Oh- and I do really like Lynn Collins. Great interview!

When you literally wait half a century to see your all time favorite book/hero make it to the big screen, like I have, you're willing to make a few concessions as to the final product. Let's face it, "A Princess Of Mars" could never be made into any kind of movie, regardless of budget allowances, exactly the way that Burroughs wrote it. Changes were made in the story, not all of which I was really happy about, to "humanize" a character, John Carter, who was, literally, superhuman. I wasn't happy with those changes, but I could understand why they had to be made. "John Carter" should have been the first blockbuster movie of the year, topped only by "The Avengers," but for some reason, Walt Disney literally sunk their own ship by not acquainting the general public with exactly who and what John Carter actually is. Even now, I hear people saying that it was nothing but a rip off of "Avatar" or "Star Wars," when exactly the opposite is true.

Anyone who might be interested in the subject, I would highly recommend reading "John Carter And The Gods Of Hollywood," by Michael Sellers. It shows all of the mistakes made in marketing what should have been the first of a very successful trilogy, at least the equal of the "Lord Of The Rings" series, making what could, and should, have been a multibillion dollar epic into what is now being called the biggest flop in Hollywood history.
 
Anyone who might be interested in the subject, I would highly recommend reading "John Carter And The Gods Of Hollywood," by Michael Sellers. It shows all of the mistakes made in marketing what should have been the first of a very successful trilogy, at least the equal of the "Lord Of The Rings" series, making what could, and should, have been a multibillion dollar epic into what is now being called the biggest flop in Hollywood history.
I'm definitely interested in reading that! I think one if he biggest problems was naming it "John Carter" rather than "The Princess of Mars". In most peoples' minds, John Carter is an ER doctor. And I was unhappy seeing this Disneyfied. But I agree that marketing was a huge problem.
 
white avenger
white avenger
The movie was originally titled "John Carter Of Mars," but the studio dropped the "Of Mars" to avoid confusion with "Mars Needs Moms" from the previous year. Stupid reason in my opinion, but far from the worst one associated with this movie
When you literally wait half a century to see your all time favorite book/hero make it to the big screen, like I have, you're willing to make a few concessions as to the final product. Let's face it, "A Princess Of Mars" could never be made into any kind of movie, regardless of budget allowances, exactly the way that Burroughs wrote it. Changes were made in the story, not all of which I was really happy about, to "humanize" a character, John Carter, who was, literally, superhuman. I wasn't happy with those changes, but I could understand why they had to be made. "John Carter" should have been the first blockbuster movie of the year, topped only by "The Avengers," but for some reason, Walt Disney literally sunk their own ship by not acquainting the general public with exactly who and what John Carter actually is. Even now, I hear people saying that it was nothing but a rip off of "Avatar" or "Star Wars," when exactly the opposite is true.

Anyone who might be interested in the subject, I would highly recommend reading "John Carter And The Gods Of Hollywood," by Michael Sellers. It shows all of the mistakes made in marketing what should have been the first of a very successful trilogy, at least the equal of the "Lord Of The Rings" series, making what could, and should, have been a multibillion dollar epic into what is now being called the biggest flop in Hollywood history.

I really, really enjoyed that book. It was a great read that explained the John Carter movie brilliantly. Even if you aren't at all familiar with the Princess of Mars series, if you have any sort of interest in Hollywood or the production process you'll find that book endlessly interesting.

I think the minds behind John Carter were majorly spooked as to how to write the character in the face of all the standard archetype male leads of today. I heard so many people complain that the movie and the character were just derivative of movies like Avatar, when in reality it's the other way around.
 
I read/watch a lot of interviews with television/movie/book people and I've only ever heard John Carter fans claim John Carter as the inspiration/archetype of other character, and a lot of character creators have no problem saying they based their character on someone, but I've never seen John Carter mentioned.

I also saw the movie, knew nothing about the series, and the problem with the movie wasn't it's marketing, it was a terrible movie.
 
I read/watch a lot of interviews with television/movie/book people and I've only ever heard John Carter fans claim John Carter as the inspiration/archetype of other character, and a lot of character creators have no problem saying they based their character on someone, but I've never seen John Carter mentioned.

I also saw the movie, knew nothing about the series, and the problem with the movie wasn't it's marketing, it was a terrible movie.

Well, you weren't looking very hard then 🙂. This is a direct quote from Jerry Siegel, which I found on Wikipedia, who created Superman:

"Carter was able to leap great distances because the planet Mars was smaller that the planet Earth; and he had great strength. I visualized the planet Krypton as a huge planet, much larger than Earth"
.

This is from James Cameron to the New Yorker in 2009, on John Carter being the inspiration for Avatar:

With Avatar I thought, do something in the Edgar Rice Burroughs mould, like John Carter of Mars." - James Cameron talks to The New Yorker, 2009

And while this is not a direct quote from the creator, it's an interesting comparison between Star Wars and the original Princess of Mars:

http://www.scifinow.co.uk/cinema/19458/john-carter-versus-star-wars/

The first two are not made by "John Carter fans", they are straight out admissions of inspiration from the creators of Superman and Avatar. I don't know which articles and sites you've been going through, but I found those with a Google search.

The movie was certainly not golden, it had things I didn't like about it, but was hardly the wasteland it was made out to be. And, for the record, I hadn't read the books prior to seeing the movie either. Saying that the marketing had nothing to do with it is absurd. Transformers 2 was a smash box office hit and it was one of the worst blockbusters I've ever seen.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
[No message]
The first two are not made by "John Carter fans", they are straight out admissions of inspiration from the creators of Superman and Avatar. I don't know which articles and sites you've been going through, but I found those with a Google search.

It just seems like JC gets made out to be the inspiration for every sci-fi character, im sure it has for some but it doesn't seem to be as wide spread as it's made out to be.

I've never seen the quote from Cameron, yet I've seen loads of interviews about it.

The movie was certainly not golden, it had things I didn't like about it, but was hardly the wasteland it was made out to be. And, for the record, I hadn't read the books prior to seeing the movie either. Saying that the marketing had nothing to do with it is absurd. Transformers 2 was a smash box office hit and it was one of the worst blockbusters I've ever seen.
No it wasn't the wasteland it gets made out to be, but it wasn't good. I think it only gets made out to be a wasteland because people try and defend it so much.
I'm not saying the marketing had nothing to do with it, but I saw LOADS of ads for it at the time, on TV and poster/billboards, enough that it made me want to see it as it looked like the type of movie I'd like, but by the half way point I was checking what time it was on my phone to see how long was left. Marketing is important for a move, but so are reviews, if a movie is good, people talk about it and get good reviews, I saw it with 3 other people and we all thought it was shit, the general feedback I head from people was it was crap and the reviews weren't great. I loved Lord of the rings, and Avatar, saw them multiple times in the cinema and own them on DVD, so it is my type of movie, but I thought it was incredibly boring.
 
by the half way point I was checking what time it was on my phone to see how long was left. Marketing is important for a move, but so are reviews, if a movie is good, people talk about it and get good reviews, I saw it with 3 other people and we all thought it was shit, the general feedback I head from people was it was crap and the reviews weren't great. I loved Lord of the rings, and Avatar, saw them multiple times in the cinema and own them on DVD, so it is my type of movie, but I thought it was incredibly boring.

This proves without doubt that you saw the movie with 3 other people who shared your opinion. Here are a few places where you will find people who disagree

http://backtobarsoom.com/

http://johncartertwo.com/#/

http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/...barsoom-facebook-group-to-lobby-for-a-sequel/

http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/...om-facebook-group-closing-in-on-6000-members/

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=57373

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/03/john-carter-did-not-bomb/254376/

and here's one that mentions some of the mistakes that Disney made in marketing the movie

http://cinemapots.blogspot.com/2013/01/was-john-carter-biggest-flop-in-2012.html

I never said that "John Carter" was a movie that everyone would love, it certainly wasn't. I know of at least 4 people (you and your 3 friends) who thought that it was pure s*it. However, far more people who took the time to see it, not just rely on the opinion of some review, actually did enjoy the movie, and the simple fact that it was much more successful in Europe and Asia, where the advertizing and promotion were much better, and where Burroughs' works are generally more well known, which would seem to indicate that those factors did, indeed, contribute to the movie's success, or lack thereof, here in the United States.

Interestingly, this "flop" was one of the leading DVD/Blu Ray sellers the month that it was released

http://www.the-numbers.com/news/7355

with just short of a million units sold.

"John Carter" certainly isn't everybody's movie, but far too many authorities far more qualified than I will ever be agree that it wasn't given the chance at the box office that it deserved.
 
This proves without doubt that you saw the movie with 3 other people who shared your opinion. Here are a few places where you will find people who disagree

http://backtobarsoom.com/

http://johncartertwo.com/#/

http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/...barsoom-facebook-group-to-lobby-for-a-sequel/

http://thejohncarterfiles.com/2012/...om-facebook-group-closing-in-on-6000-members/

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=57373

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/03/john-carter-did-not-bomb/254376/

and here's one that mentions some of the mistakes that Disney made in marketing the movie

http://cinemapots.blogspot.com/2013/01/was-john-carter-biggest-flop-in-2012.html

I never said that "John Carter" was a movie that everyone would love, it certainly wasn't. I know of at least 4 people (you and your 3 friends) who thought that it was pure s*it. However, far more people who took the time to see it, not just rely on the opinion of some review, actually did enjoy the movie, and the simple fact that it was much more successful in Europe and Asia, where the advertizing and promotion were much better, and where Burroughs' works are generally more well known, which would seem to indicate that those factors did, indeed, contribute to the movie's success, or lack thereof, here in the United States.

Interestingly, this "flop" was one of the leading DVD/Blu Ray sellers the month that it was released

http://www.the-numbers.com/news/7355

with just short of a million units sold.

"John Carter" certainly isn't everybody's movie, but far too many authorities far more qualified than I will ever be agree that it wasn't given the chance at the box office that it deserved.


4 of the 5 of those links are dedicated John Cater sites, so I'm not surprised they are in favour of it, while the more neutral sites like IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes, give it a 6.6 and 51% respectively.
So I think it's more then me and my 3 friends 🙂

I didn't say it was pure shit, I agreed with Robb Stark that it isn't the complete pile of shit it gets made out out be, but it's still an incredibly boring movie.

That article on how Disney screwed up is TOTAL crap. The movie was a flop becasue they didn't release toys and a video game??
I have very rarely seen people rave about a movie tie in video game, they are usually awful and not well received in general, that is complete nonsense made up by fans to excuse the film not doing well.
Avatar had a game out a few days before the movie, but Avatar is in a different league, Avatar wasn't successful becasue it was a brilliant story, it was successful becasue it was a stunning film, that was using pioneering technology and the first of it's kind and people wanted to see that, pretty much everyone says the story was okay, basically Pocahontas, but it was amazing looking, plus the fact it was James Cameron led to it being successful, I have Avatar on DVD, I saw it 3 times in the cinema and have never watched it on DVD, just becasue it is a cinema movie, part of the appeal was the huge screen and 3D.

And while a March release date for John Carter isn't great, lots of other movies were released in March that didn't bomb, as they weren't boring movies.

One of the articles also says the movie had extensive marketing costs?

Totally blaming the failure of the movie on marketing is stupid. It wasn't a good movie on top of any marketing problems it had, thats why everyone that saw the movie and rated it 49% think it's crap on Rotten Tomatoes, the problem isn't just that not enough people saw it, it's that of half the people that did, they were bored by it, you can't just ignore that fact and blame marketing.
 
That article on how Disney screwed up is TOTAL crap. The movie was a flop becasue they didn't release toys and a video game??
I have very rarely seen people rave about a movie tie in video game, they are usually awful and not well received in general, that is complete nonsense made up by fans to excuse the film not doing well.
Avatar had a game out a few days before the movie, but Avatar is in a different league, Avatar wasn't successful becasue it was a brilliant story, it was successful becasue it was a stunning film, that was using pioneering technology and the first of it's kind and people wanted to see that, pretty much everyone says the story was okay, basically Pocahontas, but it was amazing looking, plus the fact it was James Cameron led to it being successful, I have Avatar on DVD, I saw it 3 times in the cinema and have never watched it on DVD, just becasue it is a cinema movie, part of the appeal was the huge screen and 3D.

And while a March release date for John Carter isn't great, lots of other movies were released in March that didn't bomb, as they weren't boring movies.

One of the articles also says the movie had extensive marketing costs?

Totally blaming the failure of the movie on marketing is stupid. It wasn't a good movie on top of any marketing problems it had, thats why everyone that saw the movie and rated it 49% think it's crap on Rotten Tomatoes, the problem isn't just that not enough people saw it, it's that of half the people that did, they were bored by it, you can't just ignore that fact and blame marketing.

I would suggest that you read "John Carter And The gods Of Hollywood" for the complete story about what happened to "John Carter" and the several main reasons for its failure, written by Michael Sellers if you honestly care about what really happened with "John Carter," or if you might just be curious about what contributes to the success or failure of a movie.

This is a quote from the Amazon description of Mr Seller's book:

"How did Disney's film become a calamity of historic proportions? Michael Sellers, a Hollywood filmmaker himself, saw the disaster approaching and fought to save the project - but without success. In John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood, Sellers details every blunder and betrayal that led to the doom of the motion picture - and that left countless Hollywood careers in the wreckage.

JOHN CARTER AND THE GODS OF HOLLYWOOD examines every aspect of Andrew Stanton's adaptation and Disney's marketing campaign and seeks to answer the question: What went wrong? It includes a history of Hollywood's 100 year effort to bring the film to the screen, and examines the global fan movement spawned by the film."

As I said, "John Carter" isn't a movie for everyone, but I believe that far more people never saw it simply because they either had never heard of the character or Burroughs' Mars series, things which Disney Studios could have done far more to correct than they actually did, or they relied solely on the reviews of those critics who gave the movie a bad review without bothering to see for themselves, or both. Your experience to the contrary, I have never talked to a single person, including those who never heard of either the character or the books before seeing the movie, as well as people who are not science fiction/fantasy fans, who didn't enjoy the movie once they saw it.

As I said from the beginning, I waited 5o years to see this movie, and I feel that it was worth the wait. That in no way says that it was perfect, and I was, frankly, disappointed with some of the changes that Stanton made in the original story and in Mr Kitch's portrayal of Carter in general. Over all, though, I do believe that it was a good movie, and I also believe that it wasn't given the consideration that it deserved. And, finally, I sincerely hope that I don't have to wait another 50 years to see the sequel, but if that's what it takes, I'm more than willing to wait. I like the story that much.

And consider yourself uninvited to my "Welcome Back To Barsoom" party when the time comes.
 
"John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood" is actually a really good read, regardless of any predispositions one has. It provides a really interesting and in-depth look at the way the film was created, marketed and released, and even if you didn't like it, it's worth reading. There's a lot of stuff I had no idea about that do kind of give a neat perspective.
 
I would suggest that you read "John Carter And The gods Of Hollywood" for the complete story about what happened to "John Carter" and the several main reasons for its failure, written by Michael Sellers if you honestly care about what really happened with "John Carter," or if you might just be curious about what contributes to the success or failure of a movie.

This is a quote from the Amazon description of Mr Seller's book:

"How did Disney's film become a calamity of historic proportions? Michael Sellers, a Hollywood filmmaker himself, saw the disaster approaching and fought to save the project - but without success. In John Carter and the Gods of Hollywood, Sellers details every blunder and betrayal that led to the doom of the motion picture - and that left countless Hollywood careers in the wreckage.

JOHN CARTER AND THE GODS OF HOLLYWOOD examines every aspect of Andrew Stanton's adaptation and Disney's marketing campaign and seeks to answer the question: What went wrong? It includes a history of Hollywood's 100 year effort to bring the film to the screen, and examines the global fan movement spawned by the film."

As I said, "John Carter" isn't a movie for everyone, but I believe that far more people never saw it simply because they either had never heard of the character or Burroughs' Mars series, things which Disney Studios could have done far more to correct than they actually did, or they relied solely on the reviews of those critics who gave the movie a bad review without bothering to see for themselves, or both. Your experience to the contrary, I have never talked to a single person, including those who never heard of either the character or the books before seeing the movie, as well as people who are not science fiction/fantasy fans, who didn't enjoy the movie once they saw it.

As I said from the beginning, I waited 5o years to see this movie, and I feel that it was worth the wait. That in no way says that it was perfect, and I was, frankly, disappointed with some of the changes that Stanton made in the original story and in Mr Kitch's portrayal of Carter in general. Over all, though, I do believe that it was a good movie, and I also believe that it wasn't given the consideration that it deserved. And, finally, I sincerely hope that I don't have to wait another 50 years to see the sequel, but if that's what it takes, I'm more than willing to wait. I like the story that much.

And consider yourself uninvited to my "Welcome Back To Barsoom" party when the time comes.


If it was for a movie I thought was good, I would totally read it, I find that stuff really interesting, but the fact is, I dont think the films main problem was it's marketing, so see no reason to read the book, as I'd take it to be a book of excuses - unless the book details ways in which Disney changed the story form the book.

People that review movies before it comes out have seen the movie, they are sent screeners and they didn't like it so gave it a bad review, they didn't just see no marketing, not see the film and gave it a bad review, same with all it's bad scores on movie review sites, all those people have seen the movie and didn't like it.

While many people not seeing the movie may have contributed to it not being a massive blockbuster, people seeing the movie and not liking it is what gave it bad reviews marketing plays no part in bad reviews.
 
R
Robb Stark
It does explain that. It's actually really interesting to see how much it all ties in together.
If it was for a movie I thought was good, I would totally read it, I find that stuff really interesting, but the fact is, I dont think the films main problem was it's marketing, so see no reason to read the book, as I'd take it to be a book of excuses - unless the book details ways in which Disney changed the story form the book.

People that review movies before it comes out have seen the movie, they are sent screeners and they didn't like it so gave it a bad review, they didn't just see no marketing, not see the film and gave it a bad review, same with all it's bad scores on movie review sites, all those people have seen the movie and didn't like it.

While many people not seeing the movie may have contributed to it not being a massive blockbuster, people seeing the movie and not liking it is what gave it bad reviews marketing plays no part in bad reviews.

And here we are against that brick wall again.

You saw the movie, didn't like it, and decided that it was a bad movie. Wonderful. At least you gave it a chance. Thank you and your three anonymous friends for the time that you spent suffering through something that you found to be such an unpleasant experience (I hope the popcorn, at least, was to your satisfaction. It's usually too salty for my taste) especially since you knew in advance that so many reviewers had panned the movie.

My advice to you is that if the sequel ever is made, save your money. Go watch something that is more to your taste, something that you can sit through without having to look at your watch and wondering how much more that you will have to endure, and be sure to take your three friends with you.

As for me and my friends, and quite a few others, I assure you, we'll be there on opening night, enjoying the hell out of ourselves and looking forward to the third movie in the series, salty popcorn be damned.
 
You really seem to have failed to grasp that it wasn't just me and "my 3 friends" that didn't like it, basically 50% of the people that saw it didn't like it.

I also didn't read any reviews of films before they come out, I like to make up my own mind up, same reason I saw Prince of Persia and Oz the great and powerful, two movies also by Disney, that were crap and slated in reviews.

If they make a sequel, I probably would see it, It's a genre of movie I like, and just cuz they messed up the first one doesn't mean they'll continue to make crappy versions, Franchises can often get better as they go on (Harry Potter, X-Men, Hulk).

Though since me and my 3 friends were some of the very few that saw it, I'm guessing we wont be seeing a sequel.
 
I went into the film completely unknowing and unbiased. I tried to watch it twice and bailed out each time because I was bored. I know nothing about the origins of the character or the universe, I still know absolutely nothing about it. I tried the film (twice) because I love Taylor Kitsch (Texas Forever) but it just couldn't hold my attention.
 
Black Eye Guy
Black Eye Guy
[No message]
white avenger
white avenger
As I've said, it's not for everyone. Thanks for at least giving it a second chance. You might try the original nover, "A Princess Of Mars," sometime, to get more of an insight into the character and to see just how much Stanton had to leave out.
[MENTION=5973]Black Eye Guy[/MENTION], have you read the book? Just curious as to your thoughts on the book vs the movie.

[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION], as I'm in a Pern phase right now (determined to read the whole damn series), I came across this recently published book that Todd McCaffrey wrote a chapter for: [ame="http://www.amazon.com/The-Worlds-Edgar-Rice-Burroughs/dp/145163935X/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1388253493&sr=8-14"]The Worlds of Edgar Rice Burroughs: Robert T. Garcia, Mike Resnick, Todd J. McCaffrey: 9781451639353: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51iXV1ighiL.@@AMEPARAM@@51iXV1ighiL[/ame]
 
[MENTION=5973]Black Eye Guy[/MENTION], have you read the book? Just curious as to your thoughts on the book vs the movie.

[MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION], as I'm in a Pern phase right now (determined to read the whole damn series), I came across this recently published book that Todd McCaffrey wrote a chapter for: The Worlds of Edgar Rice Burroughs: Robert T. Garcia, Mike Resnick, Todd J. McCaffrey: 9781451639353: Amazon.com: [email]Books

Yeah, I had that book preordered as soon as I found out about it. It's great to see how these other authors, who freely admit that Burroughs was at least part of the reason that they became writers in the first place, interpret his various characters. One of my favorites was the one that had Tarzan in Caspak, "The Land That Time Forgot." I do hate that it ended in something of a cliffhanger, however, since obviously Tarzan manages to return back to the real world, since it takes place immediately after "Tarzan At The Earth's Core" (1929) and "Tarzan The Invincible" (1931) Interestingly, it takes place between one of the rare "1 year plus" gaps gaps in the Tarzan series, whether by intention or accident, and it also gives an explanation of why the O-220 was never heard from again.

Hope you like the Pern series. I started reading the first one years ago and lost the book partway through. Then I started reading John Norman's "Gor" series, which was pretty good for the first four books, then Norman for some reason got fixated on male domination of beautiful young slave girls, and I lost interest. I've always intended to get back into the Pern series, but just never have.

Something else that you might like is Andrew Norton's Witch World series, if it's still in publication.
 
[MENTION=5973]Black Eye Guy[/MENTION], have you read the book? Just curious as to your thoughts on the book vs the movie.

Nope haven't read the book, when I saw the movie originally I didn't know anything about it.

I've never really seen people saw if it was accurate to the book or not, so I have no idea.
 
Though since me and my 3 friends were some of the very few that saw it, I'm guessing we wont be seeing a sequel.

Just as well, since I've already mentioned you in a couple of the Barsoom forums. Show up, and I won't be responsible for the consequences. Some of my friends can be violent when provoked. You'd best wait till it comes out on disc, then rent it on the net. Safer that way.
 
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