Question "Back To The Beginning"

[NoShip]

Whedon has always, from Sep 2002 on, said that "Back to the Beginning" was the theme of Season 7.

Outside of some very cool callbacks, s7 did not seem to follow any "Back to the Beginning" theme.

What did I miss?

 

[AlphaFoxtrot]

Okay, if I had to guess, Joss was hoping for both an “MTV” spinoff, aka “Untitled Dawn & Friends Project” to appeal to audiences born in the late eighties, as well as the “VH1” spin-offs, the untitled Willow, Faith and Spike projects to give the early eighties audience something to continue watching. Reintroducing the High School, giving Dawn a friend group, even hiring some actors born in the 80s, all work towards that goal of refreshing the series's appeal to 15 year olds.

Weaker, I think the MOTW episodes were intended to feel more like season 1, trying to chip off some of the lore and long term plots. I suspect removing things like the long term relationships and settings like the magic shop were to make the cast and characters seem younger and less developed.

But aside from that, season themes are really Joss rewritting every episode until it fits what he is trying to say. I don’t think he was doing that in Season 7, to the degree he was in Season 2. So, all the season theme for seven really meant is that it effected the first few weeks of the season, until the audience was sold that Season 7 would be more like season 1 than season 6.

 

[thrasherpix]

It was deceptive marketing, a long tradition in all forms of media.

It's more prevalent now that exploits nostalgia, but in baffling or even idiotic ways that makes it feel as if those putting in the moments or easter eggs have done it randomly at best without any thought to the meaning of it. I suppose they do it so they can't be sued for false advertisement (pure technicality), or so they can slip it into the trailers to make it appear different than what they have planned (that is they know it's utter crap, and their job is to get your money first before you know it, too).

Really blatant examples would be those who made Jem make statements about how the cartoon affected them, and then lied about how they were talking about the movie, which made a lot more ticket sales, and if fans (including those they used deceptively) complained, well the makers already had their money, so why should they care?

Or how "Eddie is back" is released in the trailer or announcement for Terminator: Dark Fate, only to briefly show him before killing him, which is different from what was implied. Deliberately so. And countless other example.


After season 6 hurt the rep of the show, they needed deceptive promos and announcement to keep their dwindling viewers. And that lie was it. So don't think about it too much. Especially Buffy season 7 where any amount of thought is more thought than anyone involved in making it put into it.

 

[hoponlilmama]

Whedon has always, from Sep 2002 on, said that "Back to the Beginning" was the theme of Season 7.

Outside of some very cool callbacks, s7 did not seem to follow any "Back to the Beginning" theme.

What did I miss?

I guess in reference to the 'First' evil, and the appearance of past characters through The First. The more primitive vamp with the Ubervamps.

There should've been a focus on the core-four. Buffy and Giles reconnecting with their watcher/slayer relationship.

 

[TheXandyman]

I always found it a bit naff that the first was taking on form of all the previous big bads. Why??

Yeah that 'right back to the beginning' never made sense to me either. The First had a lot of meaningless babble-logue

 

[hoponlilmama]

I always found it a bit naff that the first was taking on form of all the previous big bads. Why??

Yeah that 'right back to the beginning' never made sense to me either. The First had a lot of meaningless babble-logue

The First Evil....in babble.
Guess there wasn't much else for it to do besides taunt, being incorporeal. 🤣

 

[NotASlayer]

As @thrasherpix said, it just seemed like an attempt to undo the terminal damage done to the show by season six in order to get a season 8/spinoffs. But it would have needed a miracle by that point and instead we got season seven and the recycling of one of the few monsters of the week to survive, one so boring I do not even remember it from its own episode, as the supposed big bad. Which showed they really and truly had run out of ideas by this point. You do not undo that sort of damage with some lying marketing.

 

[Cohen]

Whedon has always, from Sep 2002 on, said that "Back to the Beginning" was the theme of Season 7.

Outside of some very cool callbacks, s7 did not seem to follow any "Back to the Beginning" theme.

What did I miss?

I think there was a vague idea of fighting the First, which is why you get those potential slayings in the teasers of the first few episodes. Taking Buffy back to the high school had the *ahem* potential to be good, but they completely disregarded that concept as soon as they had it. They wanted a mystery of “why is the high school back” and “is the principal evil” and instead of making him evil, they made him good for a *twist* and it never paid off. Had they kept the potential list smaller (read: 6 or less), and fleshed out the First as a big bad that COULD be killed; then, the season could have been good. But the concept was not fleshed out and it became too big for the story they had left. Ironically, if they would have started the storyline in season 6, and bled it into season 7, it could have been a good storyline. But it was a directionless season, and it shows. It’s 22 episodes of “what is the First planning” that was never REALLY answered, and left the audience feeling like they should have checked out 2 seasons prior. It’s the exact opposite of the clearly fleshed out season 5.

 

[hoponlilmama]

I think there was a vague idea of fighting the First, which is why you get those potential slayings in the teasers of the first few episodes. Taking Buffy back to the high school had the *ahem* potential to be good, but they completely disregarded that concept as soon as they had it. They wanted a mystery of “why is the high school back” and “is the principal evil” and instead of making him evil, they made him good for a *twist* and it never paid off. Had they kept the potential list smaller (read: 6 or less), and fleshed out the First as a big bad that COULD be killed; then, the season could have been good. But the concept was not fleshed out and it became too big for the story they had left. Ironically, if they would have started the storyline in season 6, and bled it into season 7, it could have been a good storyline. But it was a directionless season, and it shows. It’s 22 episodes of “what is the First planning” that was never REALLY answered, and left the audience feeling like they should have checked out 2 seasons prior. It’s the exact opposite of the clearly fleshed out season 5.

Most definitely. As it's been written here on the forum (possibly by you, Cohen!) that it would've made for a good excuse for Giles to up and leave Sunnydale in s6, that there were stirrings of a great evil.

Which would've fixed the poor excuse that Giles gave for leaving Buffy and the gang, and would've allowed the story of The First to grow in a more organic matter.

 

[Cohen]

Most definitely. As it's been written here on the forum (possibly by you, Cohen!) that it would've made for a good excuse for Giles to up and leave Sunnydale in s6, that there were stirrings of a great evil.

Which would've fixed the poor excuse that Giles gave for leaving Buffy and the gang, and would've allowed the story of The First to grow in a more organic matter.

We also have like 20 years of digestive experience and can indicate multiple places to strengthen the show in seasons 6 and 7. I often wonder if our thoughts are similarly thought by new watchers because I cant remember my initial reaction to the show as it aired weekly 20 years ago.

 

[hoponlilmama]

We also have like 20 years of digestive experience and can indicate multiple places to strengthen the show in seasons 6 and 7. I often wonder if our thoughts are similarly thought by new watchers because I cant remember my initial reaction to the show as it aired weekly 20 years ago.

True!
That might have an impact on new BTVS fans, especially binging the series. You might not pick up on things, or have a different reaction when you're blitzing through one episode after the other.

It's often on re-watches (I find) you can really analyse the nuts-and-bolts. Hindsight, I suppose is the key word. You're often swept up in the emotion, story, and characters at the time of viewing to question something.

I certainly don't remember my reaction and thoughts on every single episode as I watched it at the time.

Ask a new watcher in a couple of years how they feel about a certain storyline or a character's actions and it may be a completely different answer than one they'd provide you now.

I do love reading input on what fans would do differently for a particular season, there's been some fantastic ideas presented.

Heck, SMG would be first in line to change s6, maybe even s7!

 

[NotASlayer]

If defeating the First's plan required incinerating the Turok Han army and destroying the Hellmouth, and "Chosen" certainly implies it did, these seem to be the important elements from the season that actually accomplished that.

Wolfram & Hart give Angel a magical geegaw.
Angel shows up in Sunnydale with said geegaw.
Spike decides he wants to use the geegaw as whichever one of him and Angel does will, in Spike's mind, have the best chance of getting inside Buffy's pants again.
Spike is wearing the geegaw in the Hellmouth which incinerates the army and destroys the Hellmouth.

Conclusion: Buffy and the Scoobies should have spent the entire season in Tahiti for all the difference they made.

(@thrasherpix statement that little thought went into the season and @Cohen that it was directionless definitely ring true.)

 

[Cohen]

If defeating the First's plan required incinerating the Turok Han army and destroying the Hellmouth, and "Chosen" certainly implies it did, these seem to be the important elements from the season that actually accomplished that.

Wolfram & Hart give Angel a magical geegaw.
Angel shows up in Sunnydale with said geegaw.
Spike decides he wants to use the geegaw as whichever one of him and Angel does will, in Spike's mind, have the best chance of getting inside Buffy's pants again.
Spike is wearing the geegaw in the Hellmouth which incinerates the army and destroys the Hellmouth.

Conclusion: Buffy and the Scoobies should have spent the entire season in Tahiti for all the difference they made.

(@thrasherpix statement that little thought went into the season and @Cohen that it was directionless definitely ring true.)

Yes! This is the most infuriating thing! All season they are struggling against the First (read: waiting around for it to do stuff), and there’s very little MOTW episodes that either take us away from the waiting or progresses the story along and develops characters, and in the end, it wasn’t the slayer spell that stopped the First, it was a happy accident that Angel defeated Jasmine just in time to get the amulet from W&H’s deal. Also considering the timelines of each respective season (all of Angel: season 4 is episodic and takes place between roughly 2-3 weeks while Buffy’s story takes place over the course of 8-9 months), there was 0 thought there. Just plot convenience because they wrote themselves into a hole.

 

[NoShip]

We also have like 20 years of digestive experience and can indicate multiple places to strengthen the show in seasons 6 and 7. I often wonder if our thoughts are similarly thought by new watchers because I cant remember my initial reaction to the show as it aired weekly 20 years ago.

I worked in the industry so I had a decent idea of what was coming. The general audience reaction at the time was confusion & dislike of the show taking such a hard turn.

The audience dislike showed up in a softening of the favorability ratings and (depending on how you assess the incredibally high ratings Bargaining received) a slight, but growing, drop in viewers.

The real audience view of s6 showed up in s7's premiere episode (Lessons) where the permanent 20% drop in viewership made its appearance.

 

[NotASlayer]

Yes! This is the most infuriating thing! All season they are struggling against the First (read: waiting around for it to do stuff), and there’s very little MOTW episodes that either take us away from the waiting or progresses the story along and develops characters, and in the end, it wasn’t the slayer spell that stopped the First, it was a happy accident that Angel defeated Jasmine just in time to get the amulet from W&H’s deal. Also considering the timelines of each respective season (all of Angel: season 4 is episodic and takes place between roughly 2-3 weeks while Buffy’s story takes place over the course of 8-9 months), there was 0 thought there. Just plot convenience because they wrote themselves into a hole.

In truth, all the Slayer spell did was put everyone in a position to get utterly massacred (even by the pitiful "uber" vamps which made newly risen stake fodder look dangerous) if not for the deus ex machina of the geegaw. Buffy in season 7 shouldn't be put in charge of straightening a bent paperclip!

 

[Kendar]

It was deceptive marketing, a long tradition in all forms of media.

According to the front cover of the video, Grizzly 2 stars George Clooney, Charlie Sheen, and Laura Dern.....

All 3 die in the first 5 minutes.

 

[Kendar]

Yeah, Caddyshack started billing as staring Chevy Chase and John Candy. Again, Candy is in the last 5 minutes only.