Bangel in the Season Eight comics

VampireJason

Dangel Activist
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Well I'm doing my best to fit in here. Anyways, what do you guys think of the Bangel relationship in the Season Eight comics?

I seem to be one of the few who don't mind the whole Space-frakking but that's just me, and even if Twilight manipulated them I still believe they love each other more than anything right now.
 
I seem to be one of the few who don't mind the whole Space-frakking but that's just me, and even if Twilight manipulated them I still believe they love each other more than anything right now.


oh you're not alone, I'm totally on your side here, I nearly fainted with happiness when I got to the space-lovin' part 🙂
 
Well for one thing, I probobly shouldn't be posting in this forum, because if I'm correct, the rules are that Spuffies can't post in this club.

How do I feel about Bangel in Season 8? Well, for starters, I think it's a travesty. Secondly, an insult to the love they once/do share. Thirdly, it makes me physically sick the way Angel has manipulated Buffy, and it makes me equally as ill to see how easily she takes him back and forgives him after all he has done. I also think Buffy deserves better.

Also, space sex is lame.

That all said, I've talked this matter to death, and if you look at some of the Season 8 threads you'll see my many rants on the subject.
 
X
xaphania
[No message]
Kana
Kana
Bangel space sex at the expense of Angel's character will not be tolerated
X
xfivebyfive
Agree my hate for Bangel grew because of the space sex it destroy wat they had and Angels character
I'm a Bangel fan, but I'm going to have to agree with Joan.

In my opinion, Bangel was extraordinary because they loved eachother so much and they knew they couldn't be together, and it was tragic love. But to see that being thrown away in season 8 by having Angel be Twilight and see him manipulate Buffy is just unfair to the ship and both characters.
 
What do I think of it? Well, fan-frakking-tastic springs to mind.

I don't see how any of the B/A interaction can bee deemed unfair to the ship or harming it in any way. I've given my take on why Buffy trusted Angel and the explanation he gave her but I will add something that Kairos pointed out to me last week. She had just watched the episode Angel and she noticed how quick Buffy was willing to t accept Angel's explanation of being a vampire with a soul. As Kairos pointed out, Buffy would never have ever even heard of such a thing much less known that it held a distinction from your regular vamp. But she trusted Angel, even when she went to kill him she trusted her gut and in the most brazen act of acceptance produced her throat to him. The ultimate act of trust.

This was season one folks. B/A is full of similar acts of blind trust that seem utterly inexplicable. To say that Buffy and Angel trusting each other on the other's word alone is OCC is ridiculous. That's what they have always done.

As far as the whole Angel manipulating Buffy thing goes, it has been made abundantly clear that reunion between them was very much an act of free will, with Buffy even going so far as pushing Angel to confirm the reality of it because she didn't want it to be something she dreamed up. As well as this we have seen strong indications that Angel was manipulated into taking up the Twilight persona.

Sonic Boom sex is the complete opposite of lame, imo.
 
BibliophileAnn
BibliophileAnn
Kudos for the post. Everytime I see your banner I think it is so cool ;)
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Nice points Kean, and you make a great point about them trusting each other initially even though neither had a real reason too - yet, I still think Bangel deserves better then what we've been given in Season 8.
M
Misty
Great thread! I just think Bangel is a great relationship, and that it deserves better.
Taake
Taake
good to have you back :)
R
racheltng
[No message]
Thank you for your excellent post Kean. I don't think the space-frakking is as bad as what people think. Buffy and Angel were in love, Angel was only happy with Buffy and vice versa.

Was Buffy happy with Spike? (I don't mind the Spuffy romance in S7 just so everyone knows before I continue)I don't think she was. She was just using him to feel alive again.

And as for Riley? I think we all know, no explanation needed.

And on Angel's side, correct me if I'm wrong here but on the Angel spin-off series he was always depressed. When he was on Buffy he seemed to be a more happy person, because Buffy made him happy, not Cordelia, not Nina, Buffy. Sorry if I got off a bit strong here, I just get mad when people try to say Angel was happier with Cordelia. Since when? Anyways, I feel I've made my point.
 
Kean
Kean
Oh don't worry hun, this is positively civil compared to what this topic usually creates but as we said, this is a place for the B/A love, not hate. :)
Thank you for your excellent post Kean. I don't think the space-frakking is as bad as what people think. Buffy and Angel were in love, Angel was only happy with Buffy and vice versa.

Was Buffy happy with Spike? (I don't mind the Spuffy romance in S7 just so everyone knows before I continue)I don't think she was. She was just using him to feel alive again.

And as for Riley? I think we all know, no explanation needed.

And on Angel's side, correct me if I'm wrong here but on the Angel spin-off series he was always depressed. When he was on Buffy he seemed to be a more happy person, because Buffy made him happy, not Cordelia, not Nina, Buffy. Sorry if I got off a bit strong here, I just get mad when people try to say Angel was happier with Cordelia. Since when? Anyways, I feel I've made my point.

I'm not going to get into a Spuffy/Bangel debate because this is the Bangel sanctuary and I won't bring that craziness in here. For what it is worth though, I agree. The happiest either of them have ever been is in each other's arms.

Joan the Vampire Slayer agrees: Nice points Kean, and you make a great point about them trusting each other initially even though neither had a real reason too - yet, I still think Bangel deserves better then what we've been given in Season 8.

I'm not sure what you mean here when you say deserve better. I think B/A have been treated wonderfully in S8. They have been reunited, they have been given the chance to be intimate with each other, they were told each other how much they mean to each other, they shucked off the will of destiny and went back to fight the good fight hand in hand. We have been told that they are ying and yang, that they are each other's "it". I don't see how much better B/A could have been treated.

Now, I know all of this means that we will ultimately be given tragedy but all the fans asked for was the reaffirmation of their connection and feelings. We got that in spades.
 
V
VampireJason
This really is a Bangel Sanctuary, didn't mean for this to turn into such a heated debate
Well, not to nit-pick, but I find it hard to believe that Angel was happiest with Buffy. What do you have to actually substantiate that opinion? Would you be happy in a situation with someone whom you deeply loved, and not be able to consummate that love without turning into a monster who would attempt to kill said love and all of her family and friends? Bangel was doomed from the get-go. That's why it's so endearing, in a way. Tragic love. It's a re-telling of a classic story.

As for Buffy being happy with Angel; sure, they had their moments, and no one is arguing that they didn't truly love each other, but if I'm not mistaken, the majority of their scenes involved her crying, or having to sacrifice something - am I wrong? Meeting Angel was the worst thing that ever happened to her. Angelus destroyed her, and having to send Angel to Hell disturbed her so much she quit slaying and left town. All Angel ever brought Buffy was pain. And now? I see no different.

Just because she loves him does not mean he is right for her.

As for who Buffy was "happiest" with - well, that's relative. I think most would choose Riley. That is, until she found out that he was allowing vamp whores to get off on sucking his blood because he felt inadequate. Buffy was very insecure after that. She blamed herself for Riley leaving, when she had done NOTHING wrong.

Spike? Well, Buffy wasn't really happy at all during Seasons 6 and 7, so one can hardly say she was happy when she was "with" him, because she wasn't happy... at all.

---------- Post added at 04:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 PM ----------

I'm not sure what you mean here when you say deserve better. I think B/A have been treated wonderfully in S8. They have been reunited, they have been given the chance to be intimate with each other, they were told each other how much they mean to each other, they shucked off the will of destiny and went back to fight the good fight hand in hand. We have been told that they are ying and yang, that they are each other's "it". I don't see how much better B/A could have been treated.

What I mean is that IMO Bangel deserves better then their real, authentic love being used as leverage (and each character, by extension, as pawns) by the Universe to bring about the destruction of mankind - a feat that both Buffy and Angel, in character, would be very much against.

Also, in the wake of Twilight's actions, Buffy loving and accepting him, taking him back - just feels so wrong to me.

Now, I know all of this means that we will ultimately be given tragedy but all the fans asked for was the reaffirmation of their connection and feelings. We got that in spades.

This I agree with; that it will end in tragedy. Of course it will. Because that's what Bangel is; a tragic and doomed love story.
 
M
Misty
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S
StarSlayer
Well said! I also think by S7 with Spike, Buffy may not have felt "happy" because she herself wasn't happy, but she did gain strength from him. IMO, that could imply he did make her happy because she gain a positive approach toward her war :)
white avenger
white avenger
[No message]
"Kean agrees: Oh don't worry hun, this is positively civil compared to what this topic usually creates but as we said, this is a place for the B/A love, not hate. 🙂"
Exactly. This is a place for B/A love, not going all anti B/A just because it's not B/S. I sorry if you were a die-hard Spuffy and it didn't work out. But this thread is really about appreciating the love that Buffy and Angel share, more specifically in the Season Eight comics. And I'm doing my best not to make anymore enemies when voicing my opinions, I already have enough.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
LOL did you just refer to Kean as a SPUFFY!? *stifles laughter*
What I mean is that IMO Bangel deserves better then their real, authentic love being used as leverage (and each character, by extension, as pawns) by the Universe to bring about the destruction of mankind - a feat that both Buffy and Angel, in character, would be very much against.

Also, in the wake of Twilight's actions, Buffy loving and accepting him, taking him back - just feels so wrong to me.



This I agree with; that it will end in tragedy. Of course it will. Because that's what Bangel is; a tragic and doomed love story.

Exactly what I meant when I said Bangel deserved better.
 
Well Season Eight is not done yet. And Bangel deserving better? You can't help who you're in love with. Angel was in love with Buffy, Buffy was in love with Angel. Love can change a lot. I'm sure you would want them to be with the people they love rather than somebody who they don't love and just have because they can't have the one they love.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Of course I want Buffy to be with who she truly loves - just not like this, in this context.
Well, not to nit-pick, but I find it hard to believe that Angel was happiest with Buffy. What do you have to actually substantiate that opinion?

One moment of true happiness seems a strong enough indication for me. Apart from that there is IWRY.

When Buffy and Angel are given the chance to just love each other without the world falling down around them it is then, and only then, that we have ever seen either of them contented and blissfully happy.

And even when they can't have that contented bliss, which lets face it is not a small portion of the time, they stabilise each other. Just look at how they were with each other in End of Days. I don't think we had seen either of them have a smile reach their eyes for about two seasons before that. They look at each other though and they are all glowy.

Would you be happy in a situation with someone whom you deeply loved, and not be able to consummate that love without turning into a monster who would attempt to kill said love and all of her family and friends?

We all know how terrible their situation was, this is exactly why Angel had to leave. However, if he hadn't loved her, if the simply being in love with her, and she him, wasn't bringing Angel joy then we never would have had a problem.

Of course they both hated the curse and what it did to them but that didn't stop them loving each other and the inherent joy found in that emotion.

Bangel was doomed from the get-go. That's why it's so endearing, in a way. Tragic love. It's a re-telling of a classic story.

I would say the opposite. If Buffy and Angel were to go along with the so called prototype "doomed relationship" then they would have died from their separation alone. They would have ceased to exist without each other. Buffy and Angel are endearing because they reject this. Apart they continued to love each other but also evolved as people. They have had experiences and relationships that have nothing to do with each other. They continue on with their lives in the full knowledge that they may never get a chance but in the fullest hope that they will. That's a hero's kind of love, it maybe tragic but it certainly isn't a tragedy.

Their reunion in S8 is the same. They got mere moments where they could be the lovers that they have always been but who they are and the responsibilities of their roles gets in the way of them making the selfish decision and so they go back. They have no idea what will come of them but they will continue to love each other regardless. Together and apart.

As for Buffy being happy with Angel; sure, they had their moments, and no one is arguing that they didn't truly love each other, but if I'm not mistaken, the majority of their scenes involved her crying, or having to sacrifice something - am I wrong

If Buffy and Angel didn't sacrifice they wouldn't be the champions they are. If you want to see how he makes her happy look at season 3 and the dichotomy between the Buffy of the first 3 episodes and the Buffy of the next 19. The first girl is awash in absolute misery, the second girl is very different. Her life is far from perfect, but simply having Angel back in her life made her worlds happier than she had been.

As for the crying, well honestly I think it is a null argument. Apart from the time when he broke up with her, I can't think of a single time Buffy cried because of something Angel intentionally did to her. The rest of the time it was the situations they found themselves in. Those situations are no more Angel's fault then they were Buffy's. She cried because she cared, because her life was so unfair, not because Angel was hurting her.

Meeting Angel was the worst thing that ever happened to her. Angelus destroyed her, and having to send Angel to Hell disturbed her so much she quit slaying and left town. All Angel ever brought Buffy was pain. And now? I see no different.

There aren't words strong enough to say how much I disagree with this. Apart from the fact that if she hadn't met him that night she would probably be dead at the hands of Luke, you are boiling love down into something that only causes happy, fluffy emotions. Angel didn't bring Buffy pain, pain came to them. And despite all that they still loved each other. Neither of them or the people around them would be who they are if Buffy and Angel hadn't met.

Just because she loves him does not mean he is right for her
.

No it doesn't, it's because they still love each other, when they have been given every reason not to, is why they are right for each other.

As for who Buffy was "happiest" with - well, that's relative. I think most would choose Riley. That is, until she found out that he was allowing vamp whores to get off on sucking his blood because he felt inadequate. Buffy was very insecure after that. She blamed herself for Riley leaving, when she had done NOTHING wrong
.

Of course she had. She had completely neglected him and their relationship. She wasn't in love with him, he reached out to her and she would push him away. That isn't her fault, you can't will your heart to feel what it won't but she could have treated him better.

What I mean is that IMO Bangel deserves better then their real, authentic love being used as leverage (and each character, by extension, as pawns) by the Universe to bring about the destruction of mankind - a feat that both Buffy and Angel, in character, would be very much against.

Angel is destiny's bitch and always has been. It makes perfect sense for him to get fecked over like this by fate. The fact that Angel was manipulated and their love making brought evolution on to the next stage has no impact on their love or the bond they share. In fact, the Universe had intended for them to keeping going and completely wipe existence out. Instead, very much in character and very much against it, Buffy says Hell no and refuses to do as the Universe wants. And Angel, also very much in character, in an act that uncurls Twilight's vice grip around him, decides to go with her without a second's thought. Because he loves her.

If anything I would say this arc highlights how real, authentic and untouchable their love his. I don't think the even the Universe had banked on it.
 
white avenger
white avenger
If I were not an outsider here, I would elsborste, but your argument applies just as well to an alcoholic and a bottle of Jack Daniels. Sure, initially, it makes him happy, but in the long run it destroys him.
Kean, as usual, your arguing is intelligent and convincing as always - yet, you know where I stand, and what couple my heart belongs with. Nothing can conflict with that. The fact that I even admit that Angel is Buffy's true love was a big step for me, lol. I will respect how the story ends, and if the two end up together, but I'll be disappointed. Or, if Buffy is forced to leave Angel again (or vice versa) I'll be sad, too because Buffy does not deserve more pain and God knows she's had to sacrifice enough.

Kean, if you are so sure that Buffy and Angel's love will end in tragedy, how can you feel so happy about what's going on? Do you really believe that their love was worth all the pain they've been through, and the pain that's undoubtedly ahead?

I respect your opinions always, it's just that I see the situation completely differently, which is what I find so interesting. As usual, your passion for this couple inspires me, and I am trying to see it in the positive light you and others do.
 
V
VampireJason
Oh and about the comment that possibly referred to Kean as a Spuffy, that was un-intential and not aimed at her
Kean, as usual, your arguing is intelligent and convincing as always - yet, you know where I stand, and what couple my heart belongs with. Nothing can conflict with that. The fact that I even admit that Angel is Buffy's true love was a big step for me, lol. I will respect how the story ends, and if the two end up together, but I'll be disappointed. Or, if Buffy is forced to leave Angel again (or vice versa) I'll be sad, too because Buffy does not deserve more pain and God knows she's had to sacrifice enough.

I know hun, and even though I don't say it, I have respect for your dedication to your ship. I don't like it, or even really understand it, but I get the passion of truly shipping a pairing.

I don't even argue with the intent of converting you in any way at all. I just hate to see B/A slammed like that and not argue their part. lol

Kean, if you are so sure that Buffy and Angel's love will end in tragedy, how can you feel so happy about what's going on? Do you really believe that their love was worth all the pain they've been through, and the pain that's undoubtedly ahead?

I suppose because I used to it. We have been given tragic situation after tragic situation and somehow B/A always pulls through and we find ourselves with another shot. No matter how dire it becomes, B/A is NEVER over.

I respect your opinions always, it's just that I see the situation completely differently, which is what I find so interesting. As usual, your passion for this couple inspires me, and I am trying to see it in the positive light you and others do.

You don't really need to strive to see it in a positive light though. That isn't necessary at all. As with any form of literature (and yes I regard BTVS as literature) the way you interpret it is very much like looking in a mirror. What I see when I look at it and what you see are always going to be worlds apart.

The only thing we have to strive for is to ensure our take on the story doesn't colour our opinions of each other. That distinction is very often not made in this fandom.
 
I know hun, and even though I don't say it, I have respect for your dedication to your ship. I don't like it, or even really understand it, but I get the passion of truly shipping a pairing.

I don't even argue with the intent of converting you in any way at all. I just hate to see B/A slammed like that and not argue their part. lol


Agreed. I get all bristled too when fans bash Spuffy. 🙂

The only thing we have to strive for is to ensure our take on the story doesn't colour our opinions of each other. That distinction is very often not made in this fandom.

Agree in spades.
 
Oh hey, look at me being referenced on a thread I hadn't read until now. Cool.

(Sidebar, I feel kind of lame about joining these forums and then not being active, but they really are kind of overwhelming! Maybe I should go get myself adopted.)

Kean pointed out the number one thing that I had to say about Buffy/Angel in the comics, but as a general sort of remark I'd like to add that love does not necessarily equal happiness. The more you care about someone, the more you're going to share their pain, and Angel has a lot of pain to share. So does Buffy.

They want each other anyway because the relationship isn't about feeling good, it's about mutual completion through selfless love. If they never see each other again, they might be happy, they might love others, but the connection between them will never be severed.
 
G
GrrArghx
[No message]
Taake
Taake
wise words
I'm pretty much, not surprisingly, in the same boat with Kean & Kairos.

I just really don't understand how people have come to hate Bangel just because of what is happening in S8. Especially when we don't know the whole story yet. I mean, we still don't know why Angel became Twilight. I don't want to jump to conclusions before we get all the information.
 
I'm pretty much, not surprisingly, in the same boat with Kean & Kairos.

I just really don't understand how people have come to hate Bangel just because of what is happening in S8. Especially when we don't know the whole story yet. I mean, we still don't know why Angel became Twilight. I don't want to jump to conclusions before we get all the information.

thats fair enough...i want the info already!!!
 
Hmmm...I want to write a thoughtful post that doesn't dissolve into squee. Difficult. Must concentrate. Right! I think that season eight's handling of Bangel has been very respectful and true to the characters. Even without the Twlight spell, I'm pretty sure they still would have been all over each other. These two have been apart for 10 years, but they still have the same chemistry they did back in S1-3. The spell might have helped Buffy get over her misgivings faster, but she would have thrown caution to the wind eventually. In the end, they were standing together, facing the fight hand-in-hand. That's the most important part.



And now, because I can't help myself, the other version of this post: I loved it! LOVED it! OMG, their sex broke mountains! *happy dance, happy dance*
 
Taake
Taake
*squees* :D
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