Bangel: On the Bubble?

[Kana]

I was having this discussion on another forum but anyway here it goes:

I was wondering how people felt about Angel falling in love at first sight with an adolescent. Now many say that Buffy was very mature for her age but the argument to contest that is that she is still little more than a child.

I was a little unsure. 15 years old is not quite adult but she was more than a child.

Some say that he comes from a different time but he isn't immune the effects of time. Even his behaviour and clothing is effected by the sign of the times.

While he isn't completely a product of society, it does make me think how he views adolescents in general. He actually referenced Faith as little more than a child and he said that Xander was just a kid. While Bangel is generally thought of as transcendent, can true love make up for the fact that when he fell in love with her she wasn't even a Slayer, she was just a girl, a girl who perhaps satisfies a wish fulfilment of becoming more than oneself, but a girl nonetheless who is on the cusp of adulthood but hasn't arrived.

What are your thoughts? While I wouldn't say it wasn't true love but is it a love with which you can identify? I'm not sure. Wish fulfilment? Yes. Falling in love with an adolescent? Not sure.

 

[Charlie Kaur]

I know it's a bit unpleasant if scrutinised too level headedly-which is why I don't! I like to just have a vague idea that Buffy is a part of an ancient line of slayers and that that wisdom she carries around as though she were a much older (perhaps like Angel, centuries older) being.

Physically it's still a tiny bit gross but then I like to tell myself he fell in love with her soul first (I think he even says that at some point). And by the time they slept together she was 17 so physically a woman.

I think he saw her for the first time after she was called.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I was having this discussion on another forum but anyway here it goes:

I was wondering how people felt about Angel falling in love at first sight with an adolescent. Now many say that Buffy was very mature for her age but the argument to contest that is that she is still little more than a child.

I was a little unsure. 15 years old is not quite adult but she was more than a child.

Some say that he comes from a different time but he isn't immune the effects of time. Even his behaviour and clothing is effected by the sign of the times.

While he isn't completely a product of society, it does make me think how he views adolescents in general. He actually referenced Faith as little more than a child and he said that Xander was just a kid. While Bangel is generally thought of as transcendent, can true love make up for the fact that when he fell in love with her she wasn't even a Slayer, she was just a girl, a girl who perhaps satisfies a wish fulfilment of becoming more than oneself, but a girl nonetheless who is on the cusp of adulthood but hasn't arrived.

What are your thoughts? While I wouldn't say it wasn't true love but is it a love with which you can identify? I'm not sure. Wish fulfilment? Yes. Falling in love with an adolescent? Not sure.

I'm really glad you brought this up. While I do think it was great that seeing Buffy inspired him to be a better person, there was def something else going on there. She was very young, and he was very old. I always thought Angel as her love interest was an interesting choice to make for Joss, consitering just this; the implication of what people might think about it. it's easy early on to get the wrong impession of Angel, I mean, he's pretty much stalking Buffy and is obviously in love with her. Funny he turned out to be such a popular character 🙂
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I think he saw her for the first time after she was called.

That is true. He didn't see her until after Merrick and her had visited the cemetary, and she had staked her first vamp. He feel in love with her but I think also felt very sorry for me. He wanted to help her. He knew she'd have a jard time ahead, being so young and all.

 

[Sweetescape]

Thinking back on it buffy was very young, and angel was very old. But many he saw all the hard things she'd have to go through and saw a connection between themselves. Which is why he went to sunnydale and that connection just happened to turn into love.
But yes very strange,angel really should have waited till she was abit older...kind creepy!

 

[Primal Slayer]

Thinking back on it buffy was very young, and angel was very old. But many he saw all the hard things she'd have to go through and saw a connection between themselves. Which is why he went to sunnydale and that connection just happened to turn into love.
But yes very strange,angel really should have waited till she was abit older...kind creepy!

lol I dont think it matters what age Angel decieded to hook up with Buffy, it would still be creepy since he still wouldve been 200+ years older then her. Angel always seemed to have the mentality of a person in their early-mid 20s since that was when he was turned so it wasnt that weird...: erm :

 

[palabravampiress]

The early days of Bangel are creepy, but that scene is *especially* creepy. It is entirely inappropriate for a grown man -- I don't care if he's 20 or 200 -- to pull up to a high school at closing time, slouch down in his seat, and check out one of the Freshmen students. That kind of behavior screams "sexual predator."

Joss mostly allowed us to view the Bangel relationship from Buffy's perspective, which is why we tend to see it as Big Romance. Even so, there were a lot of questionable moments like this one (I'm thinking here of his weird stalking behavior) that tipped us off to the fact that something just wasn't right. There was always an underlying insidiousness to the Bangel relationship, and I think Joss and co. morphed that beautifully into the Angelus arc of season 2. Part of what made Bangel a popular and interesting relationship was that it was wrong. To be together, Buffy and Angel had to overcome their natures (vampire vs. slayer), their ages, opposition from random demons galore as well as from family and friends, and, finally, a curse. I think Joss and co. did a great job of keeping us on the edge of our seats with Bangel... and one of the ways that he did that was to constantly sprinkle in little hints like this.

That said, I always feel crazy sorry for Joyce in all of this. My God! Can you imagine having your teenage daughter have an affair with an obviously unstable older man? How would you react? And then, at the end, she brings home *Spike* and goes off to do who-knows-what. Poor Joyce must have been at the end of her rope!

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

I know, right? Buffy put her poor mother through a lot...

 

[Kana]

I think he saw her for the first time after she was called.

What I meant was that she hadn't gained any experience in the role of being the Slayer. It was more or less a reference to Helpless when Angel said he saw her before she was called. Sure, she was preternaturally strong but she was still just a teenage girl in terms of her personality.

Like many, I grew up with Bangel as was a teen myself when it was on air so yes, I too saw it from Buffy's perspective but as I'm a little older, I simply cannot imagine standing outside the school gates and falling in love with a school girl. 15 years old? Yep on the bubble.

 

[PurplePoof]

Meh, she was old enough to have womanly parts...she was old enough to attract men. Plus, we can't argue she was forced to grow up a little faster than most.

 

[Professor Walsh]

That said, I always feel crazy sorry for Joyce in all of this. My God! Can you imagine having your teenage daughter have an affair with an obviously unstable older man? How would you react? And then, at the end, she brings home *Spike* and goes off to do who-knows-what. Poor Joyce must have been at the end of her rope!

I was thinking the same thing today. I see Joyce differently now than when I was younger and childless.

 

[white avenger]

I don't think that Angel fell in love with Buffy at first sight as much as hewas won over by Whistler's comment, "She's gonna have a rough time, that Slayer," (Or, maybe it was, "She's gonna need a lot o' help, that Slayer." I can't remember the exact quote). Angel saw helping Buffy as a way to atone, at least in a small way, for all of the pain, humiliation, death, and destruction that he had caused. I think that it waas more "admiration at first sight," than "love at first sight." That's in no way an attempt to belittle what they felt for each other in the later episodes and seasons, The more Angel was around Buffy, the more he admired her, and that admiration grew into love. I think that she was infatuated with, then in love with, him for at least a few episodes before he finally realized just how strong his feelings for her had grown. Even then, I think that he resisted the notion, for one of the same reasons discussed here: 200 plus year old vampire and jail bait teenaged cheerleader/Slayer. Creepy. Ultimately, Angel just couldn't resist anymore, even after he knew that being with Buffy could cost him his soul. That's why he left Sunnydale in the first place. (That, and to get to star on his own show)

(I bet somebody out there was expecting me to mention her other vampire boyfriend there somewhere, weren't you? Well, I ain't, so live with it.)