Bangel Thread.

[Taake]

Oh I love that episode, it is just... fantastic. DB and SMG are amazing in their scenes together.
And I love the "love is forever" theme because though it sounds good in theory I think that James and Grace were an embodiment of how dangerous that sentiment really can be. At least when one person decides that 'forever' isn't as long as was originally intended... which often happens outside of fairy tales.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

I just love watching David runing like a little girl in that episode 😀

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Wow, interesting thoughts Joan! And also, good analysis, GrrArgh. 😀 We have some smart people in this thread. 🙂

To be totally honestly, I've never really thought much about I Only Have Eyes For You. I guess I thought that it was well- written, like Are You Now or Have You Ever Been, but since I generally gravitate towards the more fun episodes I skip this one a lot. Also, I'm REALLY not into the whole Angelus/Buffy thing (It reminds me of Buffy/Twilight 🙂 ) so that kinda makes me uncomfortable.

But now that you guys mention it... It really is a great episode, probably with hidden Bangel, so I'll be sure to rewatch it tonight and post my thoughts on it here tomorrow. 🙂

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Oh yeah, you have to see Bangel somewhere in there. The script, it's so for them. I'm glad you'd watched it, because it's such an amazing episode, full of hidden stuff you had to find out 🙂

 

[dan k]

After watching that Halo video i've been convinced, its Bangel all the way for me now. Where do i sign up?

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

After watching that Halo video i've been convinced, its Bangel all the way for me now. Where do i sign up?

Welcome to the fold, Dan! Even though I'm only a temporary member to the cause, I welcome you with open arms. *hugs*

(Later, of course, white avenger, wishing oceans, and I will attempt to allure you over to the the Spuffies' "Adopt A Bangel' campaign with cookies and possibly candy, but for now, you're safe). 😉

 

[Wishing Oceans]

After watching that Halo video i've been convinced, its Bangel all the way for me now. Where do i sign up?

Welcome, Dan! *Writes down name* Ok, I think I can fit your name in right here for my Bangel BFF's list, it's a tight squeeze though...

Lol just kiddingg! Well, I'm Oriana, your resident 'ship switcherooer (along with Joan), and I will be you guide (if you want me to be)! 😀

If you have any bangely questions, or any questions at all, just p.m. me dearie. 😀

And you can sign up here: https://www.buffy-boards.com/showthread.php?t=48797

Yupp... 😀 Glad to have you on our side. 🙂


(BTW, is anybody else interested in the whole bangel fanfic thing?)

 

[dan k]

I just think Buffy and Angel fit. As Spike famously said when Buffy told him she loved him. No you don't but thanks for saying it.

With Angel and Buffy it was sheer passion for one another. They couldn't bare to be in the same room as one another. Angel had to leave and whenever he came back it was like he had never left.

I'am quite certain that Buffy loved Angel, in regard to Spike i'am not so sure.

Thanks for welcoming me aboard.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

I think it was more lust then passion in regard to Spike. Don't get me wrong i think as time went by those two also had a special relationship but if Angel hadn't have left Sunnydale Buffy and Spike would never have happened. She wouldn't have even looked at him.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I just think Buffy and Angel fit. As Spike famously said when Buffy told him she loved him. No you don't but thanks for saying it.

With Angel and Buffy it was sheer passion for one another. They couldn't bare to be in the same room as one another. Angel had to leave and whenever he came back it was like he had never left.

I'am quite certain that Buffy loved Angel, in regard to Spike i'am not so sure.

Thanks for welcoming me aboard.

---------- Post added at 09:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 PM ----------

I think it was more lust then passion in regard to Spike. Don't get me wrong i think as time went by those two also had a special relationship but if Angel hadn't have left Sunnydale Buffy and Spike would never have happened. She wouldn't have even looked at him.

Lol, well, you're a newbie, so I'll go easy on you this time 😉, but Spuffy is the passion 'ship, and bangel is the romance 'ship.

That's why the loved Bangel fanfics are always super fluffy and romantic with Buffy as a housewife who enjoys baking cookies and talking with old ladies, and loved Spuffy fics are the more P with P (porn with plot) stories with lots of action and smut. 😀

Haha, you just met me, true, but you'll come to learn that I love arguing so... Many debates between you and me await. 😀

Also, did you watch Chosen? That whole thing with the burning clasped hands is meant to symbolize the passion that has always existed between them. 🙂

But I digress, this isn't the place to discuss the ethics of Spuffiness. 😀 So, what's your fav part of Bangel, Dan?

Kean agrees: Honey, you CLEARLY have not been reading the same Bangel fics that I have.

Haha, I guess not! The ones I read are all awfully romantic and fluffy and ridiculous perfection and OOCness: Angel is almost always human, they're married, couple o' kids, baking cookies, housewife, NORMAL life... Honestly, it's like they erased the entire show and wrote their own "perfect little family" book. 😀 But I only read a couple, I probably just need to search for different genres. 😀

 

[Kean]

Question: Why does Ghost!James decide to posses Buffy and why does Grace decide to possess Angelus? How do they know Buffy and Angel are connected? Buffy says that James can relate to her - how? Because they both "destroyed" the one they loved in a moment of blind passion? ...I think I get it now;
does Buffy think she should apologize to Angel for "destroying" his soul?

I think James chose to possess Buffy because they shared the same shame and guilt. I don't think Grace picked Angelus though, I think Buffy did. The fact that Dru got a vision that Angelus was to go to Buffy indicates that some sort of force was compelling the two together in the school and that it wasn't just by chance. Ultimately, I think perhaps it was a small gift to Buffy from some higher power. As Giles said, forgiveness is given because someone needs it not because they deserve it. She needed to be forgiven for what she viewed as the murder of her lover. Whether she was absolved is a point of contention but she did appear to be slightly more at peace with herself after the ordeal than she had before. Although, she was still incredibily sad.

Angel feels violated by having forced to kiss Buffy - why? He washes his hands like he has her blood on them. Then, he expresses the desire to go kill something to get her love out of his "system." What's this all about? I'm not understanding the significance.

When Angelus first returned he tells Spike that Buffy "Made me feel like a man. That's not something you just forgive." To Angelus any pure, joyous emotion is an afront to everything he is. That Buffy, once again, caused him to feel the purity of love, ironically, left Angelus feeling dirty.

I think the scene is supposed to highlight the stark contrast between soul and demon. Angel found perfect happiness in Buffy's love while Angelus was disgusted by it.

If James "shot" Grace, why did Angelus rise and stop Buffy from killing herself? Was it really him doing that? Was he no longer possessed by Grace?

It wasn't Angelus rising, it was Grace. Finally, she was able to say how she felt about the whole situation. It's obvious from the scene that she was still very much in love with James when she broke up with him but was trying to do the right thing. While James' spirit was tortured by the belief that he had murdered the woman he loved (which he had technically but you can see by the way he was shaking the gun about that he never meant to pull the trigger) I get the feeling that Grace's spirit was destressed at the thought that James believed that she didn't love him. Very similar to Buffy and Angel.

---------- Post added at 10:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------

After watching that Halo video i've been convinced, its Bangel all the way for me now. Where do i sign up?

Welcome aboard the good ship Bangel Dan! 😀

We're the best ones! 😛

 

[dan k]

Favourite part well i'am not really sure. I think the "I will remember you" is a great episode. I've said it in another thread but it frustrates me that Angel doesn't tell Buffy what happened. Its the fact its clear they love each other but circumstances make it impossible, which in a strange way makes there love all the more powerful, if you get what i am saying.

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Yeah Dan, we get it, right guys?

That's why their love is so beautiful. They can't be together. There's always going to be something that's more important. Their way of living, their obligations, they're always going to put their love on the second place, because they are heroes. They're not ordinary people. Most of us would sacrafice one or two people for never ending happiness. They can't. They saw too much, and felt too much, they can't destroy a life for something that is good for them. They find it selfish. So, WHEN they END UP TOGETHER (as we all want and belive) it's going to be more sweet and beautiful 🙂

 

[dan k]

I also have to disagree when it was said their love wasn't passionate. Personally i think a Vampire coming out in the day time and embracing with his lover who he has never been in the daylight with is more passionate in comparison to a couple who got together when Buffy was in an awful state and just used Spike sexually. I refer to one of the early scenes where Spike asks do you even like me and she replies "sometimes" which sums up how at the beginning the relationship was just sex and nothing else, that's not passion for me.

Tearing up and killing the person you love , breaking down with tears coming down her face when he comes back from hell that is passion. Also in season 7 when they embrace almost instantly shows Spike didn't come into the equation when your talking about passion its Bangel, i'am getting quite passionate all of a sudden.

That's not to say as time goes by she didn't go on to love Spike but with Angel the love was always there and so was the passion.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I also have to disagree when it was said their love wasn't passionate. Personally i think a Vampire coming out in the day time and embracing with his lover who he has never been in the daylight with is more passionate in comparison to a couple who got together when Buffy was in an awful state and just used Spike sexually. I refer to one of the early scenes where Spike asks do you even like me and she replies "sometimes" which sums up how at the beginning the relationship was just sex and nothing else, that's not passion for me.

Tearing up and killing the person you love , breaking down with tears coming down her face when he comes back from hell that is passion. Also in season 7 when they embrace almost instantly shows Spike didn't come into the equation when your talking about passion its Bangel, i'am getting quite passionate all of a sudden.

That's not to say as time goes by she didn't go on to love Spike but with Angel the love was always there and so was the passion.

Well, I REALLY don't want to get into this 'ole discussion, that's what we have the "Battle" areas for, so let's remember to keep it in the right area, people. 🙂

Anyway, here's my EXTREMELY limited take on it: In no way is Bangel lacking in the passion department. 🙂 But, the way I view Bangel, passion isn't what Bangel stood for. Yes, it had passion, but that's not what the 'ship was supposed to represent, on a whole, imo.

It was supposed to symbolize the tragic beauty of young love and loss. It was supposed to represent the magic, innocence, and romance that first love brings. It was supposed to represent a mysterious relationship that was filled with metaphors and similes. It was about love in it's purest form. It was about the romance and the desperation to keep that love even when you have no hope left. It's about never really losing that love, even when the relationship is long over, the love goes on forever. It's about commitment.

All and all, I think that that boils down to more about innocent love than blind passion, which is more spuffy's thing. 🙂

But that's just my take on it. 😀

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Well I think it's all about how you see passion. Passion can be what Buffy and Spike had, they couldn't stop touching each other. But Buffy and Angel could, their love was passionate, and they respected her because they knew if they stop it's going to disapear all over again. Passion can be defined in many ways.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

Well I think it's all about how you see passion. Passion can be what Buffy and Spike had, they couldn't stop touching each other. But Buffy and Angel could, their love was passionate, and they respected her because they knew if they stop it's going to disapear all over again. Passion can be defined in many ways.

True, true. 🙂 It's fun to have these Bangely debates with you guys. 😀

 

[Kean]

Lol, well, you're a newbie, so I'll go easy on you this time 😉, but Spuffy is the passion 'ship, and bangel is the romance 'ship.

That's why the loved Bangel fanfics are always super fluffy and romantic with Buffy as a housewife who enjoys baking cookies and talking with old ladies, and loved Spuffy fics are the more P with P (porn with plot) stories with lots of action and smut. 😀

Haha, you just met me, true, but you'll come to learn that I love arguing so... Many debates between you and me await. 😀

Also, did you watch Chosen? That whole thing with the burning clasped hands is meant to symbolize the passion that has always existed between them. 🙂

But I digress, this isn't the place to discuss the ethics of Spuffiness. 😀 So, what's your fav part of Bangel, Dan?



Haha, I guess not! The ones I read are all awfully romantic and fluffy and ridiculous perfection and OOCness: Angel is almost always human, they're married, couple o' kids, baking cookies, housewife, NORMAL life... Honestly, it's like they erased the entire show and wrote their own "perfect little family" book. 😀 But I only read a couple, I probably just need to search for different genres. 😀

Out of curiosity where did you read those stories? There is alot of Bangel fluff, can't lie about that but generally I would say that Bangel fic is all about the angst. Much like the canon. lol

 

[dan k]

I just this moment stopped watching Becoming part 2 and that whole episode is so emotional. Kendra dying firstly but then you have the moment where Buffy sends Angel to hell and the passion of that scene as a whole well its hard not to start tearing up. Especially with the music playing in the back up and then you have that last bit where he calls Buffy still oblivious to what is going on.

I don't want to get into an argument but what i will say is that if Spike was in the position of Angel i believe that scene wouldn't have been nowhere near as powerful. Some might disagree but i just don't believe Buffy ever loved Spike and felt that kind of emotion that she does for Angel especially in that scene. It may just be because i've just watched the episode but i think you'll find it hard to find a more powerful scene then that one.

In regard to Chosen of course that scene is powerful but its put into context when spike says he knows buffy doesn't love him and she does nothing to change his mind.

 

[Kean]

Wishing Oceans agrees: Everywhere, I guess, I find at least one on every Bangel site 😀

I will say this, when fluff is written well, much like everything, it can be very enjoyable.

If you were 6 years older I would rec you some meatier Bangel fic 😉

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

End of Becoming Part II. Eh, in my opinion, the scene with the most power. How many of us could do that? Send our lover to Hell? It was kinda ironic. She was talking for last 3 episodes how she's ready to kill him, and when that moment came, she found out she's not ready. Like I always say she was ready to kill Angelus, not Angel. But for me, Sarah is the most responsible for beauty of this scene. Her face shapes and good acting made me cry, because I could really feel Buffy's pain, with no words at all. Her face when she saw Acathla is activated, and her watery eyes when she kissed him, and then that confused face when she was watching him going to Hell, like a moment of insanity she was probably thinking "What have I done? Where is he going?" and then when she got back to reality, her cry and her blank stare when she was leaving Sunnydale. So thank you Sarah 😀