Bargaining(6.1/2)opinion featured please read with caution!!!!!!!!!

[TabulaRasa]

I'm so not a fan of these 2 episodes. They had a few good moments, but overall dullsville.
Willow killing the deer (was it a deer?) was quite upsetting.. it was suppost to be. If you listen to the commentary they talk about how Ally was hysterical filming it, and needed to keep taking breaks, and in the end you don't hardly see anything. The point was to show that Willow was willing to slip into the dark magics a little bit too far... which helped to justify her going evil at the end of the season etc.

I agree the episodes were dull. But I still liked them, I mean come on, my Buffy was back!!! 🙂

 

[TrueVengeance]

That was supposed to signify that what Willow was doing was darker, and started off the darkest season. Also, wouldn't you kill a dear to bring back your best friend (practically sister) who was thought to be in hell? I certainly would.

It was just part of the dark magic, and was just the beginning of what lies ahead for the season I think. And I like my seasons dark 😀

 

[Rebecca]

I'm not too keen on these episodes.. but i guess they had to do something drastic to bring a slayer back! I agree with TrueVengeance it was showing that Willow was gonna go darker.

I didn't really like the majority of Season 6 though, most episodes were too dark but the comical episodes were good 😀

 

[DarlaFan2011]

I agree the episodes were dull. But I still liked them, I mean come on, my Buffy was back!!! 🙂

As I watch more episodes and see that Buffy didn't want to come back it is like a ha!moment for me.

 

[SMGfan17]

the deer wasn't really killed. so i didnt really have any problem with it. Yes, it was graphic and upsetting to some, but then they should not watch it.

 

[SMGfan17]

As I watch more episodes and see that Buffy didn't want to come back it is like a ha!moment for me.

Just out of curiosity why do you hate Buffy and SMG so much?

 

[bradlee]

I was actually wondering the same thing.


I loved these two eps.I thought it was a pretty epic opening for the season. The whole deer thing just showed the disparity that Willow felt. She would stop at nothing to bring Buffy back, not to mention, propel her arc of the season.

 

[InsaneMystic]

Even though I have no dislike towards either SMG or Buffy, I've got to go with FaithFan2005 on the deer thing. The scene is horrible to bear, no matter how often I see it; and the contrast with the soft lighting may be unsubtle, but it's damn effective. The killing was wrong, and deeply dark.

Consider this:
- Buffy was at peace with dying, willingly offered herself in the place of her sister. Wherever she may have gone after death: bringing her back demeans the sacrifice she's made.
- I don't see it as a logical assumption at all that she would be trapped in Hell; that would have made PERFECT sense if no body had ever been found, but that obviously wasn't the case, now was it? Thus I'd go for "she went wherever she deserved to go". And if that were Hell for Buffy, you'd have to assuming she was "evil". Would they bring back any other "evil" person just because they miss them?
- I don't buy into the "her life is worth mor than that of a wild deer" line either. We need a Slayer? Why? One dies, another is called. Fixed in the system already. And if you leave that out, you're stuck with "what's one life taken compared to hundreds saved", and when Faith argued this way, everyone seemed to consider that a sign that she was on a downward spiral. (And the food analogy is off. Taking another life for food is ok, because it's demonstrated by thousands of nonhuman species to be natural. Taking a life in self-defense will probably also raise little argument from most people. Taking a life for any other reason: hello Darkside.) And no, I would abso-f***ing-lutely NOT kill a stray cat even if that gave me a chance of seeing my dead Grandpa again, and I loved that man to bits.

So, what it boils down to is, this is the same unnatural and selfish thing Dawn went into trying to bring back Joyce, plus some slaughter of innocent life put on top. I wonder how they EVER got Tara to go with the plan? I can see Willow's line of thinking there (though I don't agree with her at all, she did more or less hand Dawn that book after Joyce died, and she was "it sucks, so I fix it with magic" as early as S4, so it's absolutely in character), and I can see her drawing Xander and Anya on her side, but Tara? Gaping plot hole for me, she's acting WAY out of character in this ep.

Nonetheless, I like the ep. It succesfully sets the mood for a depressingly dark season dealing with the scariest Big Bad of all - the Abyss Within.

 

[hidden]

well firstly it is a logical assumption to assume she went to a hell dimension because glory opened to portal to go back to her HELL DIMENSION so when buffy went in instead it is logical to assume she went to the place glory was going to

secondly the existence of heaven was never confirmed in either buffy or angle only the existence of heavenly dimensions
although it seems certain that hell exists(not just hell dimensions)as its referenced quite a bit

thirdly buffy's dying didn't result in a new slayer and anyway how long did buffy expect dawn and her friends to survive without her(im saying spike was right in fool for love)

so buffys friends had to bring buffy back to keep saving the world

now maybe willow had an idea that buffy may have been somewhere else but she wouldn't have been sure and even if she new it was a possibility there is no doubt she would have hidden it
xander and anya had no idea and tara would have just gone along with whatever willow said(i dont remember tara challenging any of willows decisions before)

and faith was right about the whole 1 against 100

by the way i like this episode and my favourite part is the deer part

 

[InsaneMystic]

thirdly buffy's dying didn't result in a new slayer

We "merely" have Joss's word for that. Nothing seen on screen disproves that another Slayer was called when Buffy died, and indeed, I still hold it to be the most logical assumption that another one did get called (but in the end, I will have to accept that Joss is the Buffyverse God and stands above the logic of mere mortals :lmao🙂... Probably in some out-of-the-way location since she never came into the storyline. :wink:

tara would have just gone along with whatever willow said(i dont remember tara challenging any of willows decisions before)

I don't think so, seeing how much she was opposed to the idea of Dawn bringing Joyce back. No matter how much she loved Willow and tended to take the back seat to her in decisions - when it came to use and abuse of magic, she has always come across to me as much more principled than Willow, so I find it strange she went along with this plan.

 

[hidden]

well it was dawn who was for bringing joyce back and tara never found out willow helped so we dont know how she would have reacted

 

[orpheusxi]

I meant in general.Like those people who are killing the baby seals for sport-those people won't go to jail.

Its not like they constantly kill animals on BTVS so i dont understand whats the big deal. Plus usualy dark magic requires some animal sacrifice. Im not condoning killing animals for black magic but the magic is just that "black" something dark and evil.

 

[FluffyBuffy]

I think that Willow's actions had a lot to do with selfishness on her part. I could say the same for the other Scoobies. They couldn't deal with losing Buffy and brought her back for their own selfish reason. The excuse that Buffy may have been in a hell dimension was exactly that . . . I believe. Nothing more than an excuse.



Willow and the others didn't even bother to find out whether Buffy was in a hell dimension or not. I think it was an excuse on their part, due to their inability to let go and allow Buffy to rest in peace.

I never understood the whole selfish part....I mean like someone pointed out in this thread they brought Buffy back because obviously they missed her and Willow was her best friend. Heck, if it was me I would do the same thing.

I loved that episode it was so sad and tragic, when she slit the deer that was unexpected, I loved how they made the scene so sweet and then BAM onto the killing of the poor deer.

 

[sosa lola]

Actually I can see Tara siding with Willow more than Xander and Anya and I'm glad the writers showed us that Xander and Anya had doubts about Willow's plan while Tara was blinded by her love to Willow.