Batsu, The True Meaning

[white avenger]

This is a question for anyone who may have enough Japanese language expertise to answer: I read on another web site that the term "Batsu," that we've been using to refer to the Buffy/Satsu relationship actually means "wrong," or "punishment" in Japanese. Can anyone either verify or deny this?


Never mind, I just checked on the internet, and the term "batsu" does, in fact, mean "punishment."


So do we continue to refer to this relationship by its rather ironic name, or come up with something else? Suffy? Buffsu? Satffy?

 

[percepto girl]

Haha. I think Batsu is just fine, especially now that we know the true meaning of this word (well, in Japanese at least). In a way, Joss IS punishing us with this ship, and many DO consider it 'wrong' 😉. Eh. I'm not a Batsu shipper, obviously.

 

[T.I.P]

How about Satbuffsuy. Or Buffyandsatsuarestupid

 

[LorneyTunes]

Well

I think that this Satu thing is horrible it makes out Buffy to be not in control again which i guess we already knew. But shes using another person for her needs (like spike) Satu knows this am guessin ! But its still horrible makes me not want to like Buffy x

 

[Kean]

That's incredibily ironic. There are two things that Buffy doesn't believe in, leprachuans and conincidence. I can't help but wonder was the name intentional? Joss must have known the fans would throw their names together. I think it fits perfectly, Batsu is a bit of a punishment.


Apart from a few funny lines Batsu has been one of the most disappionting aspects of S8 for me. Maybe the fact that we are seeing played out in comic book form is the reason but I genuinely believe that this NEVER would have happened on screen. I just don't buy it.

 

[white avenger]

That's incredibly ironic. There are two things that Buffy doesn't believe in, leprechauns and coincidence. I can't help but wonder was the name intentional? Joss must have known the fans would throw their names together. I think it fits perfectly, Batsu is a bit of a punishment.


Apart from a few funny lines Batsu has been one of the most disappointing aspects of S8 for me. Maybe the fact that we are seeing played out in comic book form is the reason but I genuinely believe that this NEVER would have happened on screen. I just don't buy it.

Let's face it, if there had been a Season 8 on tv, it most likely wouldn't be ANYTHING like it is in the comics. Sunnydale would never have been destroyed, there would have been no Slayer army, no giant Dawn, Spike would still be on the show. and the Willow/Kennedy relationship would almost certainly never have happened.

 

[Kean]

Let's face it, if there had been a Season 8 on tv, it most likely wouldn't be ANYTHING like it is in the comics. Sunnydale would never have been destroyed, there would have been no Slayer army, no giant Dawn, Spike would still be on the show. and the Willow/Kennedy relationship would almost certainly never have happened.

Most of those changes happened because the show was ending so I wouldn't really have a problem with them. They were necessary to finish the Sunnydale stage of the verse. I still think Willow and Kennedy would have happened because Amber Benson would still have refused to come back. Dawn and Batsu on the other hand I have issue with, if it wouldn't happen on the show than it shouldn't happen in the comic.

 

[white avenger]

Most of those changes happened because the show was ending so I wouldn't really have a problem with them. They were necessary to finish the Sunnydale stage of the verse. I still think Willow and Kennedy would have happened because Amber Benson would still have refused to come back. Dawn and Batsu on the other hand I have issue with, if it wouldn't happen on the show than it shouldn't happen in the comic.

I would like to have seen Faith stay on for awhile, though, like for a half season, then get her own show at mid season. She could have driven Buffy crazy like Spike did Angel in his Season 5, and maybe there she and Spike could have a little fling.

It would have been nice if someone like Renee would come along for Xander, too, provided, of course, that she didn't turn out to be another demon. (though with her and Kennedy on the show, there would be almost wall to wall Slayers)

 

[Tranquillity]

Apart from a few funny lines Batsu has been one of the most disappionting aspects of S8 for me. Maybe the fact that we are seeing played out in comic book form is the reason but I genuinely believe that this NEVER would have happened on screen. I just don't buy it

.

I agree.
At the moment Batsu seems merely like unnecessary titillation - because really, what point did the whole Batsu thing have in the wider story of the arc? I mean, if you took it out could have the story still have happened? yes? so I question its inclusion.

That being said....NEVER has Joss given us gratuitous sex - it has always had a purpose in the context of the story so i do believe that the whole Batsu thing will have its full purpose revealled as the story progresses. How - don't know, not going to even try to guess but i do think there is more to it than meets the eye (at least i'm hoping there is, or i'll be back to being disappointed)🙂

 

[bufsum]

How about Satbuffsuy. Or Buffyandsatsuarestupid

: peek: I am going to jump into the conversation, with a ditto on that! However, on a deeper meaning you have to feel bad for both of them... Buffy needs to find someone who can relate to her, and stop sleeping with people in order to feel better about herself. The second destructive relationship in a row (at least that we've seen). At this rate I am vying for Xander and Buffy... and I have never said that before.

... or Angel. :redwink:

 

[palabravampiress]

I think that this Satu thing is horrible it makes out Buffy to be not in control again which i guess we already knew. But shes using another person for her needs (like spike) Satu knows this am guessin ! But its still horrible makes me not want to like Buffy x

I totally agree!

This is my problem with Batsu. I don't so much mind that Buffy experimented with a woman (I'm not thrilled because it kinda came outta left field; Faith would have made more sense, but whatever). What I mind most is that after all of that season 7 character development between Buffy and Spike (in which Buffy was supposed to have learned the whole using people = bad lesson), she's right back to using someone! That leaves me feeling very disappointed in her. I'll give her some credit. I mean, at least she's not beating the crap out of Satsu every chance she gets. Or sexually assaulting her. Or calling her a dirty, evil thing. I mean, she is being considerate of Satsu's feelings in that she's being more emotionally gentle with her, too, but still... she's still using Satsu. And I don't like it! Grr. I wanna like Buffy and care about her relationships, but that's really hard to do when she's forming this pattern of being a real bitca whenever she sleeps with someone.

The Spike thing, I can forgive and maybe even understand given the whole back-from-the-dead depression and the slayer/vampire thing and whatnot. But Batsu seems to be repeating that pattern (or, at least, a watered down version of it) without leaving room for any of those mitigating factors. I really just don't understand why she's being so needlessly cruel... or why Satsu is letting her use her. Like I said, I sort of understood the Spike thing. But I don't understand why she's doing it again or why she's doing it now, even if I am glad it's less violent and disturbing this time.

 

[Kean]

I'm beginning to think that you may be getting your wish before this season's over, though you just might not be as happy about it as you think.

Cryptic much?

Care to explain yourslef old man?

 

[white avenger]

Cryptic much?

Care to explain yourslef old man?

Imagine two lonely broken hearted people sitting late into the night sharing a bottle or several crying on each others' shoulders about lost loves and the general foul ups of their mutually mixed up lives. The night progresses, the stories and old memories become more and more angsty, there are tears, hugs of mutual comfort, tear filled brown eye looks deep into equally tear filled hazel ones, the background music rises, the camera moves in for a very tight close up shot of two sets of slightly trembling lips touching slightly, then more hungrily, there is a soft whimper...Fade to black.

The next morning two badly hung over moan into wakefulness, each coming to the realization that they are not alone in bed. Fearfully, they turn, each becoming aware of who they have just shared a night of hot sweaty naked passion (that neither of them can remember the full details of, by the way), two vioces mingle in a shout of "HOLY SH*T!!" ...Fade to black once more.

(And, Miss K, if this "old man" can imagine it, Joss certainly can, and it's just the kind of kink he would love to throw in his fans' plow line...young lady.)

 

[palabravampiress]

^ I don't know. That's pretty "When Harry Met Sally," don't you think? I mean... I always thought that if/when the Buffy and Xander thing happens, it would be more... intentional (on the part of the characters). I didn't think they'd go for the funny/shocking one night stand. I thought it would be more of a happy moment or a "duh!" moment. I always kinda thought it would just click, you know? I figured that suddenly, whilst they were in the process of working together like a well-oiled machine and having one another's respective backs, they'd realize "Hey! This is what we were supposed to be doing all along!" and, like, smile or something. Now, I think that ONS scenario may very well have happened after they closed the Hellmouth (what with Spike and Anya dying and their current super-closeness), but I think that if Buffy and Xander ever get together for real, it would be communicated with something more subtle and happy.

Crap... now I've gone all off-topicy. Sorry.

I do think Batsu and Xander/Renee might lead to Bander, though... especially if both Renee and Satsu die. Right now, I'm getting the impression that Buffy and Xander have some sexual tension that they are trying to avoid by dating other people (and encouraging each other to date other people). Maybe it's just that weird dream from the beginning. Maybe it's their uber closeness. Maybe it's wishful thinking. But whatever. I'm getting a big old Bander vibe.

 

[white avenger]

^
I do think Batsu and Xander/Renee might lead to Bander, though... especially if both Renee and Satsu die. Right now, I'm getting the impression that Buffy and Xander have some sexual tension that they are trying to avoid by dating other people (and encouraging each other to date other people). Maybe it's just that weird dream from the beginning. Maybe it's their uber closeness. Maybe it's wishful thinking. But whatever. I'm getting a big old Bander vibe.

Nobody else really has to die (read the discussion on Issue 15), it just takes Buffy and Xander spending some time together with some sort of catalyst to eliminate inhibitions on a temporary basis. I didn't really mean to imply a one night stand, just after morning shock followed by a period of embarrassment and doubt if not outright denial. Whatever happens afterwards, I'll leave to Joss & Co. I just think that things will probably progress in that manner.

 

[Tranquillity]

I did read somewhere (dark horse boards - maybe?) that someone met Georges Jeantry at a comic convention and he implied that in coming stories Xander would be hooking up with someone for a one nighter and when asked if it was Buffy, Jeantry said he couldn't say. mmm interesting....(for unsubstantiated gossip🙂)

 

[bufsum]

If/when Bander happens, I am hoping it is done right. The two of them have been friends for far too long for them to screw this possible relationship/one night stand up. And think of the aftermath. This could be a funny Friends Monica/Chandler thing... or the unfunny degrading opposite. It's really anyone's guess at this point.

...and I would much perfer... well, you know! :: vampire

 

[NightBird]

I like Satsu and think she gets alot of stick for doing something as simple as falling for Buffy.

Tara never got any stick (we all know she wasn't one for the timber) for falling for Willow, or maybe thats it.

Maybe the 'hate' for Satsu stems from the fact that she is the non-buffy part of a big change that most people don't like.

I think she should have been given a fair chance as a character and not as one half of what many see as a mistake.

 

[Kean]

I like Satsu and think she gets alot of stick for doing something as simple as falling for Buffy.

Tara never got any stick (we all know she wasn't one for the timber) for falling for Willow, or maybe thats it.

Maybe the 'hate' for Satsu stems from the fact that she is the non-buffy part of a big change that most people don't like.

I think she should have been given a fair chance as a character and not as one half of what many see as a mistake.

But that's the thing I think you will actually find most people like Satsu...it's Batsu that causes the problems.

 

[white avenger]

I agree that the whole Batsu thing was a mistake, but it really doesn't have as much to do with the girl/girl part as it does the fact that the general doesn't sleep with his or her second in command, because it can cause too many complications. The way everything worked out at the end of this arc is probably the best solution to the situation, but I hope that if it is re-visited in the future, as it almost certainly will be eventually, it's at least settled, as opposed to what usually happens between Buffy and her lovers: Angel leaves "for her own good," but keeps lurking around in the background; Parker turned out to be a total a**; Riley can't accept that he's the weak one in the relationship and runs off into the jungle; Spike burns to a crisp. Whatever else happens, it seems that Buffy always gets left. That's one of many reasons that I dread a Buffy/Xander relationship. Neither one of them ever have an affair that ends happily, and ultimately I think that they both deserve that happiness.