Fake Shemp
VH Hero
i wasnt happy with Angel at the start, i mean i was at the time... but from what he became he was a total different character
BBtv Discussion: Welcome to the Hellmouth & The Harvest
- Thread starter SpikedBuffy
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Washburne
Protector of the key.
Long time I saw this episode but here goes.
No ones mentioned the intro yet? Having Darla being the vampire wasn´t really what you expected was it? Great way of showing that this wasn´t just a "normal" show.
Seeing it for the first time I had no problem with Darla or Angel. It´s not like I had anything to compare with. Darla was a vampire but a chicken one that tried to act tough. Out of character compared to later season but a "human" trade so why couldn´t a vampire act like that? Angel seemed like a mysterious wuss but he wasn´t even supposed to be a vampire from the start so what can one really expect? I kind of thought he would get killed though.
And the quote that really sticks in my mind is this:
Buffy: Who are you?
Angel: Let's just say...I'm a friend.
Buffy: Yeah, well, maybe I don't want a friend.
Angel: I didn't say I was yours.
I´m not saying it´s the best or anything but what sticks sticks. Not much to do about it.
No ones mentioned the intro yet? Having Darla being the vampire wasn´t really what you expected was it? Great way of showing that this wasn´t just a "normal" show.
Seeing it for the first time I had no problem with Darla or Angel. It´s not like I had anything to compare with. Darla was a vampire but a chicken one that tried to act tough. Out of character compared to later season but a "human" trade so why couldn´t a vampire act like that? Angel seemed like a mysterious wuss but he wasn´t even supposed to be a vampire from the start so what can one really expect? I kind of thought he would get killed though.
And the quote that really sticks in my mind is this:
Buffy: Who are you?
Angel: Let's just say...I'm a friend.
Buffy: Yeah, well, maybe I don't want a friend.
Angel: I didn't say I was yours.
I´m not saying it´s the best or anything but what sticks sticks. Not much to do about it.
Airam
I always liked that exchange btween Buffy and Angel too.
definition of insane
Hostile 17
I remember Darla getting on my nerves after a revisit to the first few eps...I don't know, after seeing all the backstory between her and Angel, I just didn't find it so believable that she could have been such a wimp.
Loved Giles and Buffy's relationship from the beginning, the father/teenage rebellion thing, it was so cute...I wish it was still as close and endearing as it was.
Loved Xander in the beginning too, the loveable dope that I didn't want to just occassionally punch, just yet...I often had problems with the math part of the math 😉
Loved Giles and Buffy's relationship from the beginning, the father/teenage rebellion thing, it was so cute...I wish it was still as close and endearing as it was.
Loved Xander in the beginning too, the loveable dope that I didn't want to just occassionally punch, just yet...I often had problems with the math part of the math 😉
I found myself wincing a couple of times throughout the ep, especially when Cordy was dealing with Willow. It so easy to forget who Cordy was when she comes so far.
Do you think that it was intended for Cordy to evolve the way she did or did it happen because Charisma Carpenter gave the character more depth?
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
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i always enjoy these two episodes and i particularly love seeing the bitchy cordelia since we seen how much she changed since then when she went to la, i even though she was mean i thought she was hilarious with that whole " who gave you permisson to exist" put down, very funny, mean yes and plus willow was so cute defending buffy but i cant deny the cordelia harmony shallow friendship is funny i like them together
Lou
Scooby
Just a comment on Jesse, I kinda like that he got turned and died. I think it left it open to "anything can happen in this show". Just a thought. Only because it never really bugged me and I was pondering why!
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
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It never bugged me because there was nothing invested in the character. If it had happened three of four episodes in (similar to Doyle on Angel) it mayhave had more of an effect. First show you dont know the characters enough to really care about them. Had them vamped Willow in the first episode it wouldnt have made much of an impact either.
Lou
Scooby
Doyle hardly bugged me either though. I was a bit shocked, but not sad. I don't think I had enough time to like him. Maybe mid-season 2, but not mid-season 1.
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
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Maybe you are just an uncaring, unsympathetic cold hearted harbinger of blue trees.
Airam
Zen baby.
I do think Charisma should be given credit for Cordy's growth but it does seem like there was always supposed to be a deeper side to her even from S1. We're first given real insight into Cordy in "Out of Sight, Out of Mind"
It seems to me from that exchange that despite the bitch she was in the pilot and even on through most of Buffy, Cordy was always, under the surface, the Cordy she became on Angel. She wanted to be accepted and all that but in the end she always held true to her convinctions... and we saw that first with her relationship with Xander... she struggled with what she viewed as unpopular descisions but in the end she always stood up for what she believed in and what she believed was right for her.
Lou
Scooby
On watching it AGAIN, and reading all the comments about Cordy, I must say, I think her extreme witchiness in Buffy may be what I like so much about her in Angel. Watching her change was a really fun thing to do.
I think it made her more likeable when she turns good. And it makes more sense why Angel would fall in love with her. Going from pretty much "evil" to wanting to atone for her evilness.
CANGEL FOREVER!
On another note though, Darla STILL bugs me. I try to calm myself, but it doesn't work. It's just a little TOO annoying to get over. If I could change one thing about the beginning of Buffy, I can live with everything else except for Darla being such a wimp!
I think it made her more likeable when she turns good. And it makes more sense why Angel would fall in love with her. Going from pretty much "evil" to wanting to atone for her evilness.
CANGEL FOREVER!
On another note though, Darla STILL bugs me. I try to calm myself, but it doesn't work. It's just a little TOO annoying to get over. If I could change one thing about the beginning of Buffy, I can live with everything else except for Darla being such a wimp!
P
Perny
Guest
Tranquillity
That'll put marzipan in your pie plate bingo
That was fun, watching the ep with other Buffy Boarders. I highly recommend it to anyone thinking of joining in
The thing that hit me the most was......Xander's shirt with the green mushrooms all over it. it's a wonder Buffy didn't identify him as a vampire.
Buffy's lack of quality fighting skills also got a lot of comments. She wasn't so great a fighter then, She has the wit, the puns and the trash talk down but her fighting is a little weak. I don't mind this - It's acctually really clever because we see over the course of the seven years exactly how much she devlops in this area. I wonder if this was Joss's vision or a consequence of inexperieince with fighting scenes from the actors and writers at the start?
Everyone loves Willow at this stage; she is a lot more sympathetic than later Willow because she's so dorky and has no self confidence and Cordelia is really, really mean to her.
Also noticed that Harmony is wearing a unicorn shirt! That wardrobe choice gets a lot of pay off over the seasons🙂
For me the biggest problem with the first season is the fact that the Master is pretty boring. I tend to tune out a bit whenever he come on screen.
The thing that hit me the most was......Xander's shirt with the green mushrooms all over it. it's a wonder Buffy didn't identify him as a vampire.
Buffy's lack of quality fighting skills also got a lot of comments. She wasn't so great a fighter then, She has the wit, the puns and the trash talk down but her fighting is a little weak. I don't mind this - It's acctually really clever because we see over the course of the seven years exactly how much she devlops in this area. I wonder if this was Joss's vision or a consequence of inexperieince with fighting scenes from the actors and writers at the start?
Everyone loves Willow at this stage; she is a lot more sympathetic than later Willow because she's so dorky and has no self confidence and Cordelia is really, really mean to her.
Also noticed that Harmony is wearing a unicorn shirt! That wardrobe choice gets a lot of pay off over the seasons🙂
For me the biggest problem with the first season is the fact that the Master is pretty boring. I tend to tune out a bit whenever he come on screen.
Kean
I don't think it is possible for me to agree more mith this post:)
The fighting scenes lacked somewhat in the begining... I still love them though 🙂
I kinda like that the show wasn't all that super professional from the get go. It really did improve in many ways.
The story telling was there from the start, which is the important part.
Not often that I care so much for the characters after the first episode like I did in Buffy. And I can't even really relate to the Highschool stuff. Or much else either for that matter...
Willow sure is lovely, Meeting Buffy seems to change her quite a lot pretty quick.
Don't think she would have done that "deliver" thing to Cordy if she hadn't met Buffy and got a much better confidence.
What I react the most at is the zombie vampires.
Luckily we don't get to see such vampires again. I'm glad they skipped that.
/SK
I kinda like that the show wasn't all that super professional from the get go. It really did improve in many ways.
The story telling was there from the start, which is the important part.
Not often that I care so much for the characters after the first episode like I did in Buffy. And I can't even really relate to the Highschool stuff. Or much else either for that matter...
Willow sure is lovely, Meeting Buffy seems to change her quite a lot pretty quick.
Don't think she would have done that "deliver" thing to Cordy if she hadn't met Buffy and got a much better confidence.
What I react the most at is the zombie vampires.
Luckily we don't get to see such vampires again. I'm glad they skipped that.
/SK
Crazy Flakes
Velma
I was watching it with the other Buffy Boarders, and, even though I had to leave a little bit early, I thought it was a blast! Can't wait for next week's screening.
Yeah, I think everyone agreed that Xander's green mushroom shirt was...um...interesting. I'm so upset we didn't get to see it again. I think that shirt had a lot of potential.
Like Tranquility said, everyone noticed that the fighting was kind of lousy. Buffy just seemed like a wimp...especially at the end of Welcome to the Hellmouth, when Buffy and Darla are having what was, by far, the slowest, most awkward fight the show ever had. I did like her fence jump, though (and, of course, the crazy sunglasses.) Also, Darla seemed very weak. If she had been like she was on Angel in that episode, Luke would probably have cowered away from her.
I loved dorky high school Willow and like her even more every time I rewatch the earlier seasons. She was just adorable, and the "deliver" thing cracks me up every time. Still, even if you don't like her in the later seasons, you have to admit that her character needed the development she went through. The whole "mousy computer nerd" thing, great as it may be, couldn't have stuck around forever...she had to create her own identity somehow, and I don't think the writers could have done that any other way.
I think everyone in the IRC agreed that the Master was a weak villain. His scenes were really boring.
Overall, the episodes were just okay. I remember liking them so much more the first time I watched them, but season 1 sort of annoys me now because it's just so different from the other seasons, and not in a good way. It's just so campy. Plus, after you've seen the characters' backstories and development, in the early episodes, the characters seem incredibly one-dimensional and the lack of continuity is infuriating.
Yeah, I think everyone agreed that Xander's green mushroom shirt was...um...interesting. I'm so upset we didn't get to see it again. I think that shirt had a lot of potential.
Like Tranquility said, everyone noticed that the fighting was kind of lousy. Buffy just seemed like a wimp...especially at the end of Welcome to the Hellmouth, when Buffy and Darla are having what was, by far, the slowest, most awkward fight the show ever had. I did like her fence jump, though (and, of course, the crazy sunglasses.) Also, Darla seemed very weak. If she had been like she was on Angel in that episode, Luke would probably have cowered away from her.
I loved dorky high school Willow and like her even more every time I rewatch the earlier seasons. She was just adorable, and the "deliver" thing cracks me up every time. Still, even if you don't like her in the later seasons, you have to admit that her character needed the development she went through. The whole "mousy computer nerd" thing, great as it may be, couldn't have stuck around forever...she had to create her own identity somehow, and I don't think the writers could have done that any other way.
I think everyone in the IRC agreed that the Master was a weak villain. His scenes were really boring.
Overall, the episodes were just okay. I remember liking them so much more the first time I watched them, but season 1 sort of annoys me now because it's just so different from the other seasons, and not in a good way. It's just so campy. Plus, after you've seen the characters' backstories and development, in the early episodes, the characters seem incredibly one-dimensional and the lack of continuity is infuriating.
Fake Shemp
VH Hero
i love the master (bater) now. i thought he was just plain awful and predictable and well awful dont sum it up but he was cliche and again i write awful. but in Lessons it was a total throw back and a trip to see him again. yay him! (and i find him way funnier now than i did at the time)
Skanky Vamp
Sniffin' the Slayer
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the master was funnier in those Twisted Sister videos...
"what do you want to do with your life, buffy?!?!"
"I wanna slay!"
"what do you want to do with your life, buffy?!?!"
"I wanna slay!"
Airam
Zen baby.
Watched it last night on BBTv, and first of all it was a blast, glad I joined in! 🙂 Most everything has already been covered in this thread. I'm kinda in the middle of rewatching S7 so it was a trip to go from having just watched "Him" to the pilot and see just how different everyone looked back then. I've alwys found it amazing how when shows run for a long time the actors grow up right before your eyes and it seems gradual and subtle as its happening but to go back its always like wow!
Watching the Pilot again I realized how much I missed S1-mid 4 Willow... I am very much more a fan of early Willow before magic engulfed pretty much everything for her. I know we all love the classic "Deliver" scene... but yeah stuff like that. She just used to have this quirky naive yet full of conviction quality about her I loved.
The Darla stuff has been commented on to death, and I am on the wtf train... she was SUCH a wimp! I'm constantly yelling at her to grow some balls, and it gets to me everytime how clueless she seems to be about slayers... she's been around FOREVER, even if the backstory wasn't written yet that she was around when Spike killed the chinese chick, she should still pretty much be aware opf what a Slayer embodies and be able to identify Buffy as such pretty much right away, common sense! Its frustrating!
Angel, DB.... I thought his acting was just bad the first few eps of S1 starting with the Harvest.... he of course got legions better, but here its just cringeworthy for me to hear him deliver some of his lines. It just seems to be that this early on DB, being new to acting, didn't really have the greatest grasp of who this Angel character would be and he kinda played him all over the place. He honed his skills pretty quickly though so kudos to DB for being a quick study! 🙂
A couple of us watched and discussed the unaired pilot right after too. It was so interesting to watch them back to back and compare. There were a few good lines and moments in the unaired pilot that they definately could have kept in (faux principal Flutie was hilarious and how he kept calling Buffy the wrong names, it was priceless and SO should have been kept in. Also a scene with Xander pointing out all the different cliques to Buffy in the quad) but overall what we got was VASTLY better. The unaired pilot went a thousand times downhill in its last half, it became laughably cheesy and the acting from pretty much all parties was awful (Don't even get me started on the original Willow!). So yeah, I'm glad they had a little more time to flesh it out and work on it so that we got what we got 🙂
Some of my favorite/classic lines:
Cordelia: I don't mean to interrupt your downward mobility, but I just wanted to tell you that you won't be meeting Coach Foster, the woman with the chest hair, because gym was canceled due to the extreme dead guy in the locker.
Buffy: 'Cause, it's the weirdest thing. He's got two little, little holes in his neck, and all his blood's been drained. Isn't that bizarre? Aren't you just going, 'ooh'?
Buffy: To make you a vampire they have to suck your blood. And then you have to suck their blood. It's like a whole big sucking thing. Mostly they're just gonna kill you.
Giles: A, a Slayer slays, a Watcher--
Buffy: Watches?
Giles: Yes. No!
Buffy: Hi! I'm an enormous slut!
Joyce: Are you, uh, going out tonight?
Buffy: Yeah, I'm going to a club.
Joyce: Oh. Will there be boys there?
Buffy: No, Mom. It's a nun club.
Angel: Let's just say... I'm a friend. (starts to leave)
Buffy: Yeah, well, maybe I don't want a friend.
Angel: (turns back) I didn't say I was yours. (one of the only decent line deliveries from DB in the pilot IMO)
Willow: No, we're just friends. We used to go out, but we broke up.
Buffy: How come?
Willow: He stole my Barbie. (Buffy looks confused) Oh, we were five.
Buffy: Oh.
Willow: I-I-I don't actually date a whole lot... lately.
Buffy: Why not?
Willow: Well, when I'm with a boy I like, it's hard for me to say anything cool, or, or witty, or at all. I-I can usually make a few vowel sounds, and then I have to go away.
Buffy: It's not that bad!
Willow: No, i-it is. I think boys are more interested in a girl who can talk.
Cordelia: With you?
Jesse: Well, uh, yeah.
Cordelia: Well, uh, no!
Cordelia: God! What is your childhood trauma?!
Buffy: Have you guys seen Willow? Did she come by here?
Cordelia: Why? Do you need to attack her with the stick? Jeez!
(Buffy turns and goes.)
Cordelia: (to her groupies) Excuse me, I have to call
everyone I have ever met, right now.
Cordelia: But senior boys, hmm, they have mystery. They have... What's the word I'm searching for? Cars! I just am not the type to settle. Y'know? It's like when I go shopping. I have to have the most expensive thing. Not because it's expensive, but because it costs more.
Cordelia: Well, I heard it was rival gangs. You know, fighting for turf? But all I can tell you is they were an ugly way of looking. And Buffy, like, knew them! Which is just too weird. I mean, I don't even remember that much, but I'm telling you, it was a freak show!
Giles: The Earth is doomed!
:biggrin:
Watching the Pilot again I realized how much I missed S1-mid 4 Willow... I am very much more a fan of early Willow before magic engulfed pretty much everything for her. I know we all love the classic "Deliver" scene... but yeah stuff like that. She just used to have this quirky naive yet full of conviction quality about her I loved.
The Darla stuff has been commented on to death, and I am on the wtf train... she was SUCH a wimp! I'm constantly yelling at her to grow some balls, and it gets to me everytime how clueless she seems to be about slayers... she's been around FOREVER, even if the backstory wasn't written yet that she was around when Spike killed the chinese chick, she should still pretty much be aware opf what a Slayer embodies and be able to identify Buffy as such pretty much right away, common sense! Its frustrating!
Angel, DB.... I thought his acting was just bad the first few eps of S1 starting with the Harvest.... he of course got legions better, but here its just cringeworthy for me to hear him deliver some of his lines. It just seems to be that this early on DB, being new to acting, didn't really have the greatest grasp of who this Angel character would be and he kinda played him all over the place. He honed his skills pretty quickly though so kudos to DB for being a quick study! 🙂
A couple of us watched and discussed the unaired pilot right after too. It was so interesting to watch them back to back and compare. There were a few good lines and moments in the unaired pilot that they definately could have kept in (faux principal Flutie was hilarious and how he kept calling Buffy the wrong names, it was priceless and SO should have been kept in. Also a scene with Xander pointing out all the different cliques to Buffy in the quad) but overall what we got was VASTLY better. The unaired pilot went a thousand times downhill in its last half, it became laughably cheesy and the acting from pretty much all parties was awful (Don't even get me started on the original Willow!). So yeah, I'm glad they had a little more time to flesh it out and work on it so that we got what we got 🙂
Some of my favorite/classic lines:
Cordelia: I don't mean to interrupt your downward mobility, but I just wanted to tell you that you won't be meeting Coach Foster, the woman with the chest hair, because gym was canceled due to the extreme dead guy in the locker.
Buffy: 'Cause, it's the weirdest thing. He's got two little, little holes in his neck, and all his blood's been drained. Isn't that bizarre? Aren't you just going, 'ooh'?
Buffy: To make you a vampire they have to suck your blood. And then you have to suck their blood. It's like a whole big sucking thing. Mostly they're just gonna kill you.
Giles: A, a Slayer slays, a Watcher--
Buffy: Watches?
Giles: Yes. No!
Buffy: Hi! I'm an enormous slut!
Joyce: Are you, uh, going out tonight?
Buffy: Yeah, I'm going to a club.
Joyce: Oh. Will there be boys there?
Buffy: No, Mom. It's a nun club.
Angel: Let's just say... I'm a friend. (starts to leave)
Buffy: Yeah, well, maybe I don't want a friend.
Angel: (turns back) I didn't say I was yours. (one of the only decent line deliveries from DB in the pilot IMO)
Willow: No, we're just friends. We used to go out, but we broke up.
Buffy: How come?
Willow: He stole my Barbie. (Buffy looks confused) Oh, we were five.
Buffy: Oh.
Willow: I-I-I don't actually date a whole lot... lately.
Buffy: Why not?
Willow: Well, when I'm with a boy I like, it's hard for me to say anything cool, or, or witty, or at all. I-I can usually make a few vowel sounds, and then I have to go away.
Buffy: It's not that bad!
Willow: No, i-it is. I think boys are more interested in a girl who can talk.
Cordelia: With you?
Jesse: Well, uh, yeah.
Cordelia: Well, uh, no!
Cordelia: God! What is your childhood trauma?!
Buffy: Have you guys seen Willow? Did she come by here?
Cordelia: Why? Do you need to attack her with the stick? Jeez!
(Buffy turns and goes.)
Cordelia: (to her groupies) Excuse me, I have to call
everyone I have ever met, right now.
Cordelia: But senior boys, hmm, they have mystery. They have... What's the word I'm searching for? Cars! I just am not the type to settle. Y'know? It's like when I go shopping. I have to have the most expensive thing. Not because it's expensive, but because it costs more.
Cordelia: Well, I heard it was rival gangs. You know, fighting for turf? But all I can tell you is they were an ugly way of looking. And Buffy, like, knew them! Which is just too weird. I mean, I don't even remember that much, but I'm telling you, it was a freak show!
Giles: The Earth is doomed!
:biggrin:
Fake Shemp
VH Hero
i do love the "i didnt say i was yours" but more so i love buffy in the first episode, especially when she totally likes Angel but says she dont... "i REALLY didnt like him..." yeah buffy you tell yourself that. 🙂
angel does have a total character transplant.... dunno who to blame for that tho.
angel does have a total character transplant.... dunno who to blame for that tho.