Being a "Hater"

[Robb Stark]

Kean agrees: This is probably something that should have a thread of its own but, if you hate something in fiction, why not hate it? I'd rather honestly hate something than falsely play along out of some PC BS. I thinking hating something is as valid as loving it

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION],

Good call on making it its own thread. Now, to everyone, before we sink our teeth into this, I'd like to make a request that it remain civil, and not just devolve into a "Angel is better! No Spike is better!" kind of thread. We already have, like, six of those.

Okay, to Kean's point. I don't view it as "falesly playing along out of some PC BS". Disagreement is perfectly fine. In fact, in a discussion forum it's essential. It's productive and, for me at least, it's fun, because if you're willing to listen you often can gain a new perspective.

That's all great. What isn't great, is when someone is so blinded by hate of a character (and no, this isn't a broadside at anyone, not even you @black eyed guy or [MENTION=6758]white avenger[/MENTION] 😛, it's merely a general statement) that they go out of their way to bash, or to say that another character is better. We all have characters, arcs and angles we don't like. Nothing in the world wrong with that. But when one comes onto a forum where the chief purpose is discussion, and then ignores the story to fit their paradigm and in turn force that onto the group, it's annoying.

And, if I may say, it's a matter of courtesy as well. The best part of BB is that it isn't like 99 percent of discussion forums out there, which more often than not feature little more than endless bickering. We here, the vast majority of the time, tend to show respect for one another. I like that. I also know that when people just rip on Angel, my favorite character, for ridiculous reasons, it gets my back up, and I get inadvertently snarkier than I should or would if the topic had been raised rationally. And I'm 100 percent positive that fans who love Spike, or Willow, or Anya, or Xander or whoever feel the exact same way.

I don't see any problem whatsoever with "hating" a character, or discussing that dislike. What I do take umbrage with is when that hate crosses over into discussions that don't even involve it, or gets petty with things that aren't pertinent at all. And what I especially dislike is when that hate gets in the way of realizing that even if one doesn't like a specific character, others do, and they are just as free to like said character as I or anyone else is to hate them.

Anyways, I hope that all makes some kind of sense, and I really hope that everyone recognizes that I'm not calling anyone out or implying any sort of reference to anyone. Everything you read here means exactly what it says. I'm not taking any shots.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

While I have no problem with hating a character, being labeled a hater isn't the same thing.

Like how I was called a hater in another thread, I don't care for Spike, but I dont hate him (you will find many of my posts over the years on this topic, they say I don't care for Spike he was just boring, but I dislike his fans, thats were the main part of my dislike comes from, I've never hidden that)

But labeling someone a hater, is basically saying their argument is not relevant. A hater goes above and beyond to hate a character. If I were to say that in season 3, when Spike had kidnapped Willow, he would probably have raped her when he got back to the mansion becasue thats something his character does - that would be an example of hating, I'm basically making something up to fuel my hate.

I took exception to being called a hater, cuz it was used to dismiss my arguments, all of which were completely valid, and I dont mean in a 'we all get an opinion' way, I mean everything I said was directly backed up by the show.

The funny thing is Spike probably gets the lest amount of haters. People asking that his fans dont over hype how good he is, dont justify every mistake with some crazy explanation and basically just admit he's capable of doing wrong isn't hating.

Compare someone saying "Spike isn't the poster boy of good" with any of the hate Riley or Kennedy get and you see a huge difference.

I haven't seen people being labeled 'haters' around here much till recently, and from what I saw it rose from one or two threads were people made ridiculous claims about Angel that were completely not relevant to the show, they got accused of hating on Angel as they were basically making stuff up, and now people are using it to defend Spike, just cuz it was used to defend Angel. Like in the other thread, everything I said was relevant, not Spike fan approved, but relevant and it got labeled as hating, even through it can be backed up by the show and by writers on the show, that to me can't possibly be hating.

 

[white avenger]

Since I was one of the three luminaries (I've always wanted to use that word in a sentence) mentioned above, I feel it appropriate to clarify that I do not, and never have, hated Angel. I just think that Buffy and Spike, even in the bad times, make a more interesting story, and that Sarah works much better with James than she ever did with David.

Plus, Angel is dull as a table lamp, has stupid hair, and wears lifts.

 

[iShower4free]

I hate Riley, and am proud of it lol.

 

[EffyStonem]

I think a lot of people think that I hate Spike; I do not. I do not actually have any sort of problem with Spike outside of his relationship with Buffy and I love his arc on AtS Season 5.

That being said, I do hate Spuffy but I have legitimate and valid reasons for my hatred.

 

[slayer6]

I called you a hater but while I did disagree with what you were saying I was only teasing you. I didn't realize you would take exception to it. My apologies if I offended you as that was not my intention. I personally am a fan of Spike but I never say he was a "poster boy for good" nor do I make unfounded comments about Angel like I guess most Spike fans do. I like Angel very much but prefer the Spuffy arc better. Hating to me can be defined in several ways.

 

[Blaze]

I hate Riley, and am proud of it lol.

YES!!! (couldn't give you karma lol)

I think most of the hating comes from the fact that the fandom is very divided. Spike and Angel are like the Gale and Peeta of Hunger games, Harry and Ron from HP, Jacob and Edward from Twilight, the Eowyn or Arwen of LOTR. Point is, every fandom has it, but for once, I believe we tend to be a bit more civil about it on this board (overall, sometimes it does get a bit crazy but we still manage to all remain friends at least). There will always be arguments, so there's no point at all in becoming a "hater".

[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION], I have nothing more to add to your post, I completely agree with what you said.

 

[iShower4free]

YES!!! (couldn't give you karma lol)

I think most of the hating comes from the fact that the fandom is very divided. Spike and Angel are like the Gale and Peeta of Hunger games, Harry and Ron from HP, Jacob and Edward from Twilight, the Eowyn or Arwen of LOTR. Point is, every fandom has it, but for once, I believe we tend to be a bit more civil about it on this board (overall, sometimes it does get a bit crazy but we still manage to all remain friends at least). There will always be arguments, so there's no point at all in becoming a "hater".

Ugh I HATE Jacob and Peeta with the fire of a thousand suns lol

 

[Blaze]

Ugh I HATE Jacob and Peeta with the fire of a thousand suns lol

This is so funny, I always preferred Jacob, and I'm definitely team Peeta all the way!!

 

[iShower4free]

This is so funny, I always preferred Jacob, and I'm definitely team Peeta all the way!!

Jacob was just such a cry baby and I always felt like the books were forcing Peeta and Katnis on me when Gale is the obvious choice. Let me guess, you also prefer Damon over Stefan and Eric over Bill?

 

[Blaze]

Jacob was just such a cry baby and I always felt like the books were forcing Peeta and Katnis on me when Gale is the obvious choice. Let me guess, you also prefer Damon over Stefan and Eric over Bill?

haha luckily I don't watch Vampire diaries or True Blood, or else I think we'd have a real argument here 😉

 

[iShower4free]

haha luckily I don't watch Vampire diaries or True Blood, or else I think we'd have a real argument here 😉

Haha im trying to think of more... hmmm.... ok I cant think of anyone else good lol

 

[brinkster130]

Alright you Riley haters...pipe down! 😉 🙂

I don't see anything wrong with hating certain characters or story lines, we all have different tastes and interpretations of things, but what I do find annoying is when people don't acknowledge their hate or pretend that even with their hate they are totally unbiased. As far as being labeled a "hater" goes, I understand how it could come off as being used to disregard someone, and when used as an argument to cheapen someones points it is incredibly frustrating. That being said, I admittedly, use the word jokingly with friends and people I interact with a lot on-line....but I wouldn't throw the label around maliciously.

 

[Lyri]

I think a lot of it depends on which character you say you hate.

If I mention that I hate Willow or Harmony (which I do) people usually shrug their shoulders and move on.

But if I say that I hate Spike (which I do) I'm automatically labelled a 'hater' by some people, labelled an Angel fan (which I'm not really) and a Bangel (again, not really) and I'm told that I'm being unfairly harsh on Spike and I should try to see things from his perspective and learn to have an open mind. I was even once told that I was 'watching the show wrong' and I needed to 'have lessons on how to watch and appreciate the show the way it was supposed to be, and that means loving Spike'.

So, why is it okay for me to hate Willow and Harmony, but it's not okay to hate Spike?

And in saying that, yes, I do hate those three characters, but I'm still fully capable of watching and enjoying the show and these three characters' scenes and I'm fully capable of admitting and pointing out and even loving certain scenes with these characters - they will just never, ever appear in any list of 'favorite characters' that I choose to make. And they'll very rarely show up in any art I make.

 

[EVIL UU]

Do you know why Spike is so insightful about Scoobies in season 4? Because he hates them. Hate is vital. You want to be able to understand your favorite characters? You need love them and hate them, it will balance out, allow you to see things from a point somewhere in between. And whenever somebody calls me a hater, I see it as an act of desperation, they obviously can't refute my well thought arguments, resorting to a personal attack instead. Always puts a smile on my face.
[MENTION=11975]Robb Stark[/MENTION]

I also know that when people just rip on Angel, my favorite character, for ridiculous reasons, it gets my back up, and I get inadvertently snarkier than I should or would if the topic had been raised rationally. And I'm 100 percent positive that fans who love Spike, or Willow, or Anya, or Xander or whoever feel the exact same way.

I don't know, I pretty much love Buffy and Willow, my favorite characters and I'm the first to rip on them. I am, right? I love my Willow evil, whenever people try to defend her it kinda annoys me because I think that it takes away something very important from the character and shallows her. Willow is such a paradox, she can be incredibly selfless, brave, compassionate but she can also be an ugly, rotten monster. Her hideousness is what makes her fascinating. And Spike. I love Spike but I love him evil. He's a villain, he's supposed to be evil, I'm supposed to hate his guts. And people try to turn him into some pathetic white knight. Ridiculous. You want to hate my favorite characters, go hate, I'll hate too, we can hate together, as long as there's content to back up your hate 'cause hating without a reason, on a purely emotional level, is just lazy.

 

[Kean]

I agree with [MENTION=1603]Evil[/MENTION]_UU, I think hate and distaste is vital. I love Angel and Buffy. You don't even know how much, but I swear to God there is so much they have done that I hate. I get nothing out of pretending I don't. If I think they eff'd up on something, I'm going to say it. Because not saying it is even more distasteful to me. I feel like I'm lying or something.

With Buffy and Angel it is basically a deep, angry disappointment, but with Spike, Spuffy and post S3 Willow it's the kind of hate where there is just nothing. I see nothing to empathise or connect with, nor do I want to. I'm comfortable feeling this way about these characters.

That doesn't mean I haven't been turned around on characters, Riley is the big. I really loathed him and then I read a post here that gave me pause and slowly but surely, he became someone else. Same thing happened with the Potentials. I'm not ruling it out happening again but until then, I'm a hater. There is no point in trying to pass myself off as anything else.

 

[Robb Stark]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION],

My point wasn't that it's not somehow "okay" to hate certain characters. That's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with that. The difference is when one goes out of there way, constantly and repeatedly, to tell everyone that they hate said character, and pay little or no mind to the possibility that others like them. I think that's just discourteous.

But no, I never said hating a character is "bad", and the post certainly wasn't aimed at you or anyone else.

 

[Buffy Summers]

It's the same with a variety of topics, most notably to me Politics. There are some people who will say anything party X does is wrong and anything party y does is right - no grey area, no reasonable discussion of the particular issue at hand. I think those are the people I can't stand having a discussion with. Because there is zero give an take.

 

[Kean]

[MENTION=7585]Kean[/MENTION],

My point wasn't that it's not somehow "okay" to hate certain characters. That's perfectly fine. There's nothing wrong with that. The difference is when one goes out of there way, constantly and repeatedly, to tell everyone that they hate said character, and pay little or no mind to the possibility that others like them. I think that's just discourteous.

But no, I never said hating a character is "bad", and the post certainly wasn't aimed at you or anyone else.

But, if that is how someone feels why should they say anything else? You could turn it the other way and say it is discourteous for people who like a certain character to be talking on and on about them with no regard for those that hate the character. That's what I meant about being PC. I don't think any one of us on the board is so delicate that we can't hear dislike expressed about the thing we love. I'm not going to take exception to anyone saying they hate Angel, Buffy or B/A, and I certainly won't find it discourteous.

Now, if someone is doing/saying things to incite another set of fans/group of people, I think that is wrong. But simply stating your distaste in a thread where your opinion (good or bad) is relevant to the discussion is perfectly fine, if not down right expected, with me.

 

[LindsayH]

Just my opinion, but I have always found hate to be a very strong word to use. For instance I very very very strongly dislike Harmony, Cordelia, and Riley, but I don't ever use the word hate. Despise maybe, but not hate lol

Ugh, I dislike Harmony so much, I have found myself fast forwarding through scenes with her in the them. Horrible character, and her voice is just annoying.

That being said, I may also just not like the use of the word hate, because growing up, it was ingrained into me that if I used that word towards anyone or anything, my parents would beat me lol