"Beneath You" Church Scene - Original Vs. Produced Version

Joss also changed "lantern" to "torch" in the dialogue at 20.15 - Spike passes to Buffy "the torch" of their love. From that moment he doesn't make any attemps to get close to her; it's Buffy who has to make attempts to get intimate.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I like the torch, it carries on the theme of fire between them.
Not that I don't like Joss' scene, but I think it would have been good to see a more remorseful and guilty Spike rather than just 'I got a soul and therefore you will love me'.

Actually, re-reading it, yeah, I would have preferred the original scene. Sorry. That's just my opinion.
 
I like Joss' version better. Spike's final action (kneeling before Buffy) in Petrie's script reminds me too much of Angel collapsing before Buffy in Beauty and the Beasts.

and then walking up to the cross reciting what sounds like scripture (I don't think it is though, correct me if I'm wrong) - "And she shall look on him with forgiveness and everybody will forgive and love, and he will be loved."
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It's not Scripture, but it's so well written it might as well be. 🙂
 
I know almost everyone prefers Whedon's version over Petrie's. But Doug still managed to have a few nuggets of gold in his draft.


I was the enemy, then I was nothing,
and now I'm God's garbage, not even a joke,
less than, less than,
less than all His creatures combined
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Thats a great bit of character insight right there, Spike thought that getting his soul back would be the answer but instead it opened his eyes to how hopelessly lost he truly was.
 
S
Spikefan31
See, that's beautiful. I like that.
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Agreed. There were some good parts in it the first draft.
Although I do find myself rather enjoying both versions I have to agree with the people who preferred Joss' version to Petrie's. There is just a strange emotional depth to the Church scene that Joss wrote compared to the complete darkness of Petries that is amazing conveyed on screen.

I wouldn't say Petrie's is poorly written but I would say there is something about Spike that is very OOC. I'm not sure exactly what it is or anything but there is something. But I do like the poetry and all of that. I thought that was very tortured and it fit but the end of the scene fell flat. Whereas Joss' one had been from the very first line because Joss can write Spike perfectly. Petrie hasn't always done the best job with Spike.
 
LyteHouse said:
I was the enemy, then I was nothing,
and now I'm God's garbage, not even a joke,
less than, less than,
less than all His creatures combined

Thats a great bit of character insight right there, Spike thought that getting his soul back would be the answer but instead it opened his eyes to how hopelessly lost he truly was.
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I do think those lines show insight to Spike's feelings of being lost, but I thought the way Joss' wrote it was more subtle, which is one of the reasons I prefer it. Spike says, "It didn't work. Costume. Didn't help. Couldn't hide." He later wants to burn on the cross. He wants forgiveness, but at the time, feels like he doesn't deserve it, so God (representing the cross) should just punish him.
 
I have a question. We know that Spike came back somewhat crazy, after getting his soul back and feeling all those guilt feelings. And we know that at the same time he comes back The First messes up with him. So in this episode, which of the two is the reason for Spike's acts? The reason why he's insane? The First, or the soul and what came with it?
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
I think it's the new soul driving him mad. The guilt from everyone he killed.
Chosen Enemy said:
I have a question. We know that Spike came back somewhat crazy, after getting his soul back and feeling all those guilt feelings. And we know that at the same time he comes back The First messes up with him. So in this episode, which of the two is the reason for Spike's acts? The reason why he's insane? The First, or the soul and what came with it?
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Both. I think he's crazy with guilt and because the first was messing him him. I think he feels more guilt because of the first messing with him.
 
S
StarSlayer
[No message]
S
Spikefan31
[No message]
In this scene I think it has more to do with his soul than The First. Especially since he had attempted to help Buffy, but it all turned out wrong. It was an accident that he hurt that man, of course, but he couldn't handle the guilt of that, so he got kind of crazy again.

In Joss' script, when Spike says that "he" is also in there, is he referring to God? I'm assuming so, and if that's the case, I like the subtle reference better. Besides, "I'm God's garbage" sounds a little too much like Darla telling Angel "God doesn't want you but I still do". Joss' version sounds much more like Spike.

Just re-watched this today- God I love this scene!
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Yes, I think he is referring to God.
I prefer it the way it aired; showcasing Spike dealing with the irony of his choices; rather than only dwelling on the torment.

He thought getting a soul would suddenly make him worthy of Buffy's love; only for it to show him how unworthy he truly was. Luckily for him we don't always get what we deserve and she loved him anyway. After that he is able to sacrifice himself and finally earn that trust and caring she gave him freely over the course of the season.

If I wasn't so butch I'd be tearing up right now...one second while I clear some dust outta my eye. The final season might not have been perfect but looking back I can't decide what if anything I would change.

The only thing that would have made me truly happy would have been for Spike to immediately get his own show after Buffy; still allowing him to guest star on Angel and making it easier for different Buffy alum to stay in the story.

This wish is in no small part made because of the likelihood that Season 8 would have been completely different and or superfluously not needed.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Nice post. I agree.
S
StarSlayer
Love your banner btw
I like Joss's version a lot more, felt more real. Petries's wasn't horrible...it just wasn't Spike. I do like getting to read both. It's usually interesting to see multiple perspectives on things.
 
That scene is one of the best scenes on the show IMO, Joss can write something as simple as "can we rest now?" and then it becomes such a beautiful scene.
Joss' version is so much better, Petrie's had a little too much 'God' in it and the ending would have looked really cheesy with Spike on his knees..
 
W
Willow My Love
The knees thing reminds me of Rest in Peace.
I love this scene, it makes me teary every time I watch it (and that's quite often). I find Joss's version way better, because it ties all together - the madness, the pain that having a soul causes, the look on Buffy when she realises what Spike is talking about, there's even Spike-humour (Well, yes. Where have you been all night?).
And the way Buffy reacts? The tears are just as priceless as 'Can we rest now? Buffy, can we rest now?'
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
[No message]
I like the burns being shown, but I agree that it's too OOC for Spike. Even insane Spike.

I can see why it was rewritten.
 
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