Question Best season or worst? #2

[PassionBecoming]

I saw this relationship as a symptom of what was wrong in Buffy's life. She came back from hell feeling lost, vulnerable, unable to handle the grown up responsibilities she was suddenly faced with. Spike was an example of the person you turn to when life gets difficult but who is ultimately someone who you shouldn't be with because the relationship is destructive for both of you.

Joss and co. have said many times that the Spike/Buffy relationship of season six was meant to be potrayed as an abusive and unhealthy relationship and in this aspect I love watching it because it shows a side of Buffy we haven't ever seen - a side that isn't confident about her life, or her relationships - a co-dependant self destructive side. And that is absolutely fascinating. QUOTE]

Agreed!

Season 6 is probably my least favorite, but I still liked it. I enjoy Bangel and Briley more than Spuffy, but I still love the dynamic and storylines that Spike and Buffy have! This season was just more disappointing to me than anything. I didn't really like the "Willow on drugs/magic" arc, and the Trio was amusing, but annoying for me. I also got bored of the whole "Willow has control issues and likes to mess with people's minds to her liking and brings people back from the dead because she can't deal with loss" storyline. It's been going on since Season 3. And Dawn. Ugh.

Plus, there were a lot of loose ends and unexplained items it seemed, and that just bugs me. 🙂

 

[Haptism]

!

I enjoyed season 6 a lot, and yeah, I'm not a big fan of Spuffy! Whatever, this season is my favorite because I like the development of the characters. They all changed their personality a bit, but that's okay and I think it fits to the show very well. The Scoobies grew older, so it's not a problem that they were different than before, isn't it?

Tara's death was so sad and I understood Willow's reactions very well... In season 6, Willow's personality got more important, I think. I loved the tragic of Dark Willow.

Yes, the whole season was more mature and darker than the seasons before, but it was interesting to watch!

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

Personally this is by far my favourite season. I think the writing is fantastic, the ideas, the big bad being from within the group..just FANTASTIC. I feel alot of people dont like it as its so real. The hero is vulnerable and doing this not very heroic..but what do people expect? Her to come back and be like woooo thanks guys! This Season is brutal really but it also made Buffy grow up which is what she needed for season 7.

 

[Stakesteak]

To me season 6 is probably the worst if not a close second behind season 4. I thought the sudden transformation of magic into heroin was bad writing that only existed to set up Willow becoming the big bad at the end of the season.

The trio, while an intriguing concept, made no sense. Warren might not have been the best of guys but he wasn't some homicidal woman hater. I feel he only became that way because the writers wanted a nerdy character who already existed so they just dug him back up and massively rewrote his character. Similar thing with Jonathan. He was not a bad man but the writers wanted another familiar nerdy character so they ignored everything he learned in previous seasons. You could argue that he figured out what's right in the end but I'd argue that he never would have gone along with them in the first place and certainly not for as long as he did.

More than anything though I dislike season 6 because, like season 4, it was a critical season for the future of Buffy and they blew it. Granted they had a big task ahead of them; the show moved to a new network and they had to reinvigorate the series after everything wrapped up nicely at the end of season 5, but they also had millions of fans excited for more Buffy.

Like season 4 unfortunately, the show was not taken in a good direction. Everything was so dark and everyone was so miserable that this just wasn't Buffy. It really says something that most people's favorite episodes (Tabula Rasa and OMWF) are one where everyone forgets how miserable they are and another that's more about awesome singing than anything else. Even Joss recognized that season 6 was way too dark so he massively changed the show's atmosphere for season 7 to bring back a lighter tone.

For me though, the true killer for season 6 is that I believe it alienated a lot of the viewership into not returning for season 7. There was such a massive drop in ratings between seasons 6 and 7 to the point where S7 had lower ratings than the first season and it's hard not to hold S6 at least partly responsible for that.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

To me season 6 is probably the worst if not a close second behind season 4. I thought the sudden transformation of magic into heroin was bad writing that only existed to set up Willow becoming the big bad at the end of the season.

The trio, while an intriguing concept, made no sense. Warren might not have been the best of guys but he wasn't some homicidal woman hater. I feel he only became that way because the writers wanted a nerdy character who already existed so they just dug him back up and massively rewrote his character. Similar thing with Jonathan. He was not a bad man but the writers wanted another familiar nerdy character so they ignored everything he learned in previous seasons. You could argue that he figured out what's right in the end but I'd argue that he never would have gone along with them in the first place and certainly not for as long as he did.

More than anything though I dislike season 6 because, like season 4, it was a critical season for the future of Buffy and they blew it. Granted they had a big task ahead of them; the show moved to a new network and they had to reinvigorate the series after everything wrapped up nicely at the end of season 5, but they also had millions of fans excited for more Buffy.

Like season 4 unfortunately, the show was not taken in a good direction. Everything was so dark and everyone was so miserable that this just wasn't Buffy. It really says something that most people's favorite episodes (Tabula Rasa and OMWF) are one where everyone forgets how miserable they are and another that's more about awesome singing than anything else. Even Joss recognized that season 6 was way too dark so he massively changed the show's atmosphere for season 7 to bring back a lighter tone.

For me though, the true killer for season 6 is that I believe it alienated a lot of the viewership into not returning for season 7. There was such a massive drop in ratings between seasons 6 and 7 to the point where S7 had lower ratings than the first season and it's hard not to hold S6 at least partly responsible for that.

the magic thing wasnt slow at all..even in season 5 she was using it alot and why would it not make sense to be compared to heroin? its got to be addictive were u end up using it all the time if your that good. i thought it was very well done getting more and more obvious as the season went on.

Warren was totally a disrespecting women hater. He didnt see women as people he built a robot of one! and Jonathon wasnt portrayed as evil he was the weak link he kept his morals to a point and when he was made to do things really awful he was pressured into it and then ended up helping Buffy..i think he was little boy who got in way over his head and couldnt leave..he just wanted to be excepted (as jonathon always has)

Yes Joss has said it was dark and miserable but it was them growing up. I never know what people expect from them bringin buffy back..like its going to be her doing cartwheels..It was dark but i can remember it actually being one of the funniest..along with season 4...I just love it because it deals with things that are nasty and ugly but when your making a show of nasty and ugly monsters why not show the monsters that people can be? which is what this whole season is about..their personal monsters

 

[zobothehobo]

Ok, hold up... You figured out that Warren wasn't a homicidal woman hater because of I Was Made to Love You? Um... what? Did you not hear the things April said? And how do you know what he's like? You saw him for one episode before season 6. You assumed he wasn't a homicidal woman hater, but season 6 (and the only time we actually see his character) proves you wrong. It's like on first glance I don't "look like" a lesbian, but I am. And if you spent more than an hour with me, you'd figure it out.

Similar thing with Jonathan. He was not a bad man but the writers wanted another familiar nerdy character so they ignored everything he learned in previous seasons. You could argue that he figured out what's right in the end but I'd argue that he never would have gone along with them in the first place and certainly not for as long as he did.

I don't think Jonathan in the Trio was ever supposed to be bad.. he just wanted to be someone. This is very consistent with the Jonathan we'd seen before. And he did figure out what was right in the end. He did decide evil was not the way to be someone. Did you miss his whole part of the last few episodes of the season? And also in the beginning of season 7 before he died? He was on his way to that (and Warren knew it) which is why Warren kept him out of the final plans...

t really says something that most people's favorite episodes (Tabula Rasa and OMWF) are one where everyone forgets how miserable they are and another that's more about awesome singing than anything else.

OMWF is really dark and NO ONE forgets how miserable they are. The whole point of the episode is they all realize how miserable they are. Buffy admits she was in heaven and is now in "hell." Spike admits he wants to be with Buffy but also wants her to leave him the hell alone because it hurts too bad to be near her. Giles admits he feels like he's standing in the way of Buffy's growth and development. Tara finds out Willow erased her memories... and from that she knew Willow was really taking it way too far with magic. Anya and Xander admit they're not as happy in their relationship as everyone things... The whole episode is about misery. Sure, there's singing and dancing... but the lyrics are about misery and pain.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

Yer i forgot that part..OMWF is (from what i gathered) kind of a bit of a joke as its when all the most depressing feelings come out but in song and dance..i cant think what u call that but there is a word for it im sure lol. Also Giles song made me cry like a baby...not so happy 🙁

---------- Post added at 07:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------

oh and Zobothehobo i FREAKING love your signature 😀 Captain John Hart..yes please 🙂

 

[Stakesteak]

So I can tell both of you feel very passionately about season 6 (as do I, just in a different way 🙂 ), which is good! Forums are very boring when everyone is just agreeing with each other. I'll try to elaborate some on my points and number each topic, though I also posted some fairly detailed opinions on season 6 in other threads about whether season 6 is the best or worst so I'd invite you guys to also check those to get a better understanding of why I feel the way I do.

1) Magic was never anything like a drug until season 6. Every warning Giles or anyone else gave to Willow about being cautious with magic in previous seasons was to try to keep her from being reckless with it like she was after Oz left. Pretty much the more powerful you get the more powerful spells you can cast and it's important to pace yourself and learn respect for these powers before going crazy with 'em. There was never any mention about literally getting addicted to it and becoming a magic junkie. If magic was like a drug then it'd be pretty damning of Giles and especially Tara for helping Willow get deeper and deeper into it in seasons 4 and 5.

To be fair, I didn't mind how they portrayed magic in the earlier episodes of season 6; for awhile it really did seem like Willow going on a power trip. It was primarily when they literally had a "magic dealer" and a crack den that it just got ridiculous to me.

2) I'm sorry but in Warren's first episode he was not a woman hater. He was a nerd who couldn't get a girlfriend so he built one instead. Not exactly the best decision but one I'm sure a lot of young guys would make if they were able to and it doesn't mean he hates women. Once he found a girl who liked him he wanted to pursue that relationship and left the robot but the robot found him and he basically screwed himself out of his relationship. It's been awhile since I've seen the episode but I'm pretty sure he had a conversation with Buffy near the end that gave the impression that he wanted to patch things up and fix the mess he made.

I don't think it was until midway through season 6 when the writers decided they really wanted to make Warren legitimately evil that they started the woman hating angle.

3) You're right about Jonathan and his arc throughout the season being one where he learns to stand up for himself and do what's right. The problem is that that's exactly the same arc his character went through in season 4 in that episode where he changed reality. What bugs me is that the writer's basically had his character go over the very same ground but in a lot more episodes.

4) It's correct that OMWF is pretty darn dark but I think it's safe to say that the vast majority of people who like it don't watch it b/c of its story (except maybe the Spuffy kiss), they watch it for the awesome songs.


By itself season 6 is not a bad season. Its story-lines and characters make sense when viewed in terms of the season itself. The problem that I and many others have with it is that it doesn't fit with the previous 5 seasons. The more I watch it the more it feels like the writers had this big, epic story in mind, and often made their characters do very uncharacteristic things to get there.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

I see what you mean about it stands out..thats why i like it haha..i guess it is one of those marmite things..its either one of your top two or bottom two..which is sometimes what great writing is because its taking that risk tthat your going to upset some fans.

I get the drug dealer part..i did think that was strange..i think it was mainly put in to show how serious it got and it was the best way to show it as an addiction. Tara and Giles always seemed slightly scared at how easily it came to her. I think Giles would have put his foot down sooner then Tara had he seen what was going on.

Warren i always had the impression the character was written to dis respect women. He got power mad in my view and hated that he didnt have control over Buffy. I think they were a few little boys playing around and it wasnt till the murder they got over their heads as Warren got very excited at the fact that they got away with murder and I imagine that gave the writers the freedom to turn it a little darker.

And as for Jonathan (spell it right this time lol) his character was never going to change much he will always be that boy wanting acceptance. The thing that upset me about his character was he gave Buffy her umbrella then (although he came through at the end) he went along with it for a while..but i do think this is in character..just not nice lol

I love OMWF because its amazingly done..and all the stuff that comes out makes it a great episode to watch over and over..if it was just a bunch of songs id get a bit bored tbh lol

 

[EVIL UU]

Season 6 is not my favourite because for something supposedly so focused on real life it is utterly unrealistic. Buffy's financial problems are especially ridiculous, Joyce owned an art gallery, employees, clients and it all, what, vaporised? Buffy and Dawn should inherit it, take over the business or be able to sell it. And where the hell is Dawn's child support and/or Cash Aid? It just doesn't make sense.

The other thing that bugs me is Buffy's attitude towards slaying. She doesn't even consider leaving Sunnydale. She could sell the house, take Dawn and move to some safer, nicer place, Dawn deserves to never see a demon or a vampire again, ever and so does Buffy. I mean, who would stop her? The council can bust out Faith or kill her and get another girl and if they want Buffy's help they'd better start paying. It's that simple and season 6 never addressed that issue.

And then there's the whole "I can't kill Warren" thing. She killed her first human in season one ( it was intentional and absolutely unnecessary ) and then slaughtered Knights Of Byzantium, how is Warren different from any other human that tried to kill her and was killed for that? I don't get it.

The biggest problem with season 6 though, is how inconsistent it is when it comes to mood and themes and how shallow and literal the symbolism and metaphors become. Even season one has more brain food, season six assumes that the viewers suddenly got dumber or something. I don't hate it, I like every season but season six lacks the magic, so to speak.

 

[PrettyLilGirl]

And then there's the whole "I can't kill Warren" thing. She killed her first human in season one ( it was intentional and absolutely unnecessary ) and then slaughtered Knights Of Byzantium, how is Warren different from any other human that tried to kill her and was killed for that? I don't get it.

I think to be fair by seeing ready she was ready to rip his heart out🙂

 

[Moscow Watcher]

EVIL UU
And then there's the whole "I can't kill Warren" thing. She killed her first human in season one ( it was intentional and absolutely unnecessary ) and then slaughtered Knights Of Byzantium, how is Warren different from any other human that tried to kill her and was killed for that? I don't get it.

You mean the zookeeper? Or somebody else? In zookeeper's case it wasn't intentional and it was self-defence. The same with The Knights who were about to kill all of them.

Oh, btw - I adore season 6.

 

[EVIL UU]

In zookeeper's case it wasn't intentional and it was self-defence.

Seriously? She's The Slayer, supernatural strength, reflexes and the rest of the package and she had Xander to help her out, Zoo guy was a regular, unarmed human. She could have kicked him in the balls or punched him in the face, instead she threw him right into the demonic Hyena cage. It's not self-defence, it's murder.

And what about Faith? She what, didn't want to kill her when she stabbed her? She came to her place and almost killed her, it's called attempted murder. Buffy kills humans when it's convenient for her, there's no underlying moral code in her actions. So when she gives a speech about morality and human rules it feels like a joke. Maybe that was the point though, to show that she's sometimes a massive hypocrite.

 

[Moscow Watcher]

To me, it looks like self-defence. He attacked her. He tried to kill her. She has thrown him away from her. And from her friends. To the opposite side of where her friends were. It was his bad luch that the cage was there.

As to Faith - yes, I agree. It was explicit and premeditated. Yes, I have big issues with Buffy's behavior in "The Graduation".

 

[The Unspoken]

Seriously? She's The Slayer, supernatural strength, reflexes and the rest of the package and she had Xander to help her out, Zoo guy was a regular, unarmed human. She could have kicked him in the balls or punched him in the face, instead she threw him right into the demonic Hyena cage. It's not self-defence, it's murder.

The zoo keeper had just been imbued with hyena powers. He was no longer a normal human, but a supernatural threat, so Buffy's full use of her powers was justified. It's not like she intended to kill him - it happened accidentally in a situation of self-defense.

And what about Faith? She what, didn't want to kill her when she stabbed her? She came to her place and almost killed her, it's called attempted murder. Buffy kills humans when it's convenient for her, there's no underlying moral code in her actions. So when she gives a speech about morality and human rules it feels like a joke. Maybe that was the point though, to show that she's sometimes a massive hypocrite.

Faith is also a supernatural threat and unlike Warren, a prison can't contain her. If the alternative is innocent people getting killed, then killing Faith can be justified.

 

[Enemies]

I love the whole dark Willow aspect of this season and getting to know Spike more however i do not like the geeks they, to me, were random non-characters plucked from almost thin air to bulk out the season a bit.

 

[Whirlwind]

This season has some of my favorite episodes and least faves. But more least faves. This is probably my least favorite season. I still like it, but I didn't enjoy it as much as the others.

 

[peaches71]

I can safely say season 6 is one of my favorites seasons. It has some great Spuffy moments, and is one of my go to seasons for a quick 1 or 2 episode Buffy fix. That said, keep in mind I'm one of those quirky fans that loves season 4 with a passion! 😀

 

[Ripper666]

Why loosing so many words. I think its one of the best!!

 

[Ripper666]

I agree there is too much sex in the storyline but it is my second best season! I loved Dawn and the history about Willow! I really enjoyed the three (funny) gangsters Warren and co.
I loved the development about the characters but I think I can see the arguments of the ones who say that this season is bad. It's just a point of view!

---------- Post added at 09:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:15 PM ----------

And lost ome words ;D