Bill Maher on Comic Book Culture

[Skanky Vamp]

“The guy who created Spider-Man and the Hulk has died, and America is in mourning. Deep, deep mourning for a man who inspired millions to, I don’t know, watch a movie, I guess … Now, I have nothing against comic books — I read them now and then when I was a kid and I was all out of Hardy Boys, but the assumption everyone had back then, both the adults and the kids, was that comics were for kids, and when you grew up you moved on to big-boy books without the pictures. But then twenty years or so ago, something happened – adults decided they didn’t have to give up kid stuff. And so they pretended comic books were actually sophisticated literature … I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to suggest that Donald Trump could only get elected in a country that thinks comic books are important.”

LOL. That's too funny.

 

[thetopher]

Maybe things that you read and love as a kid shape your outlook as an adult. I mean, that seems possible.

 

[The Bronze]

It'll be different for everyone but it's definitely possible to enjoy comic book characters and realise Donald Trump is awful. Not sure what the crossover numbers are like for hardcore comics fans and Trump voters.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

Yes. Comic books are dangerous. I get my politics from serious literature by Knut Hamsun, T.S. Elliot and Ezra Pound ... hey, wait a minute 🙄

 

[Ethan Reigns]

Sophisticated literature is like classical music: everyone believes it's "better" but in both cases, it retains only a niche following. The Disney comics with Donald Duck, Gyro Gearloose, Huey Dewey and Louie, Pluto and all his characters were sophisticated - the vocabulary was high-school grade or above and not lowest common denominator. Comic books were equivalent to modern sitcoms - characters would get themselves into all kinds of trouble or embarrassment and have to find a way to get out of it.

As for Donald Trump, a lot of people felt unrepresented by the two-party system and felt Donald Trump would be an improvement. The public was sick of slick "family man" ads that portrayed the candidate, his beautiful wife, his palatial home, his 2.4 children and his dog (there always has to be a dog) where the candidate was later found to be a philanderer whereas Trump just said everyone knew who he was and didn't try to sugar-coat it. He addressed offshoring of manufacturing jobs, something the leadership of both parties had agreed to ignore. He addressed trade deals that he thought were one-sided against the US, not successfully, but at least he was willing to address the problem. He has recently addressed prison reform, something that was long overdue. He failed to address the impasse of citizenship taking more than a decade to process and the fact that the US may want to change the laws but we were not doing anyone a favour by just ignoring them. He screwed up royally with North Korea (although his base congratulated him for getting some of the bodies of servicemen back), made a fool of himself with Putin and eliminated a treaty with Iran that was keeping them out of the nuclear weapons business. He ignored disasters like Puerto Rico and California wildfires and insulted the family of a Muslim serviceman who was killed in action. He promoted the idea of a wall to be paid for by Mexico that was never going to happen. He did not call out the protesters who chanted "Jews will not replace us". He moved the Israeli US embassy from Tel Aviv where it belonged to Jerusalem where it did not belong. He screwed up with anchor babies and splitting up families at the border without any plan to return children to parents.

Is Trump a comic book character? Definitely and there is an animated half-hour show about him on the air now. Did he get elected on the basis of comic book readers seeking a comic book character? Not in the least. If anything, it's the voters who were comic book characters. That and the Democrats who will confirm themselves as losers when he gets a second term.

 

[white avenger]

Back in the 60's and early 70's, Marvel, with Stan Lee managing, revolutionized the comic book genre by creating a group of super heroes with legitimate human frailties and problems. Peter Parker felt responsible for the death of his uncle, Ben and struggled to work his way through college. Tony Stark was a recovering alcoholic. Grimm considered himself to be a monster and blamed Reed Richards for making it happen with his irresponsible actions. There was a newspaper editor and an Army General who devoted their lives to persecuting costumed crime fighters, and mutants were generally distrusted at best, and looked upon as monsters at worst. The individuals within the community didn't all get along, and some were outright enemies. Their stories were not the kind of kiddie stories that DC was writing about heroes that everyone loved, respected, and never had any personal problems like Superman and Batman (and, in fact, they caused a revolution at DC to "mature" their own heroes and story lines.) Comic books grew up in the 60's. They became legitimate literature and most certainly NOT "kids' stuff," and that was largely due to the efforts of Stan Lee and others like him. On the other hand, the Hardy Boys books are still considered "young adult" literature.

And I would be really surprised if just as many Clinton supporters as Trump supporters were not comic book and super hero movie fans.

 

[Anyanka Bunny Slayer]

Bill Maher needs to go up to the mountains and meditate....he talks too much nonsense. Perhaps he'll attain enlightenment. Or get horribly mauled by a mountain lion, and have the flesh ripped from his putrid bones.

Just a thought. 😊

 

[thrasherpix]

Maher is a troll, which is why Spanky loves him.

I'm actually a fan of him myself, though I think he's way off base on this...sometimes he just makes trollish statements for the laughs more than a serious statement, though, and I hope that's the case here.

I'm around many conservatives, and used to go to a gun range for years with many conservatives (and someone there sold my personal info to various right wing causes). Offhand, I can think of only one into comics (and general scifi), and he's very moderate (and not a Trump fan at all). The rest of the fans I know of who are political (mildly to greatly) are all liberal at the least (one maybe just barely right of liberal), if not outright Leftist (obviously, I'm not using the US definition of Leftist). Offhand, I can't even think of some of the scifi loving libertarians that I used to know well who were into comics, and that's counting the graphic novels (such as the works of Neil Gaiman), with the exception of the graphic novel versions of libertarian novels. I can only think of a couple that even like the Marvel movies.

In contrast, I think of some of the more religious that even to this day don't care for them (and that's even before some comic brands tried to play at being "woke").

I'm certain there are conservatives (and those much more radical and right wing) that are into them, but going by my personal observation, Maher is either trolling for the lulz, or might as well be.

 

[November]

Yes. Comic books are dangerous. I get my politics from serious literature by Knut Hamsun, T.S. Elliot and Ezra Pound ... hey, wait a minute 🙄

Ooh thus sparked my interest (have only recently discovered those people). The interest for me is spiritual - politics never crossed my mind, but with this I start to think it appeals because it is a sort of moral teaching. Is that why adults crave comics more lately? An easy form of moral direction? Hope? Its safe to say most of the human race spends some time looking for that.

If so comics are even more important [than I realised] to this stage of history. Just as music, prayers and poems may have been in previous eras.

The world is so much more FUN with this stuff in it 😀

 

[TriBel]

Yes. Comic books are dangerous. I get my politics from serious literature by Knut Hamsun, T.S. Elliot and Ezra Pound ... hey, wait a minute 🙄

Thanks - that made me laugh 😀 - I've spit coffee on my keyboard!

TBH, I thought the point he was making was (not to put too fine a point on it) that Trump supporters / comic book readers are thick rather than comics are a conservative form. I also thought he was alluding to the denigration and infantilisation of culture. If so, aside from throwing Trump's name in, it's not a new argument - it's been going on since the beginning of the novel - and the moral panic around it started earlier than that (Gutenberg has a lot to answer for). I'm guessing, as @thrasherpix says, he knows this and he's deliberately trolling. The idea that any product of a culture can be devoid of a political/Political ideology is, generally speaking, outside my mindset.

That aside, I've found myself some new comics.

This works better if you're familiar with Carpenter's They Live.

Superhero comics creators: we're political, and always have been

 

[thetopher]

TBH, I thought the point he was making was (not to put too fine a point on it) that Trump supporters / comic book readers are thick rather than comics are a conservative form.

Ironically comics have been pretty much left leaning since the 70's and the more popular comic greats- like Warren Ellis and Alan Moore- have created some powerful leftist stories. What are V for Vendetta or Watchmen if not allegory's that support liberal narratives.

Even more mainstream material like X-men engages more with the liberal, more tolerant mindset in its messaging.

I also thought he was alluding to the denigration and infantilisation of culture.

Yep. Heard the same thing regarding Harry Potter when the novels started getting marketed towards adults. I always dismiss the arguement as incredibly dumb. I assumed Maher was smarter. Maybe not.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Maher is a troll, which is why Spanky loves him.

I can't stand him. He's a discount Dennis Miller. But I did think that quote was funny.

 

[thetopher]

@Spanky Sadly no we don't get Miller here. 🙁

 

[brinkster130]

Wasn't he in a comic movie?

Edit - he was...in one of the Iron Man movies, but his scenes got cut. Bitter Betty.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

@Spanky Sadly no we don't get Miller here. 🙁

Here... thought this was apropos

 

[Skanky Vamp]

More Maher:
“Yeah, I don’t know very much about Stan Lee, and it certainly wasn’t a swipe at Stan Lee … I am agnostic on Stan Lee. I don’t read comic books. I didn’t even read them when I was a child. What I was saying is: A culture that thinks that comic books and comic book movies are profound meditations on the human condition is a dumb f—ing culture. And for people to, like, get mad at that just proves my point.”

 

[Taake]

Lol, so... He doesn’t, and has never, read them, but knows how dumb they are just because they’re what - drawn and has superhero characters?

Maybe he should just stop talking about this.

I wonder what he thinks is a smart culture? I’m pretty sure he’s no fan of religious literature either, so there are a lot of things adults consume that he thinks is pretty darn dumb. Please tell us, oh Maher one, what will make us smart and not mad at you 😛

 

[fauxindigo]

I actually really like Bill Maher, have watched his show Real Time for years agree with a lot of what he says but he also says things sometimes that completely rub me the wrong way; mainly about the cops... but his comment about comic books annoys me and I disagree with it, but it's not like I'm going to lose sleep over it. #1- he probably didn't even write it and #2- he's wrong. As any artist should know, there are many forms of art and storytelling is one of the oldest and most powerful forms of art. Comic books are stories with the unique and inspired art of many different artists. As if beautiful pictures and art somehow makes the text & story itself somehow less important or potentially powerful. So why Bill would think it is devoid of any meaning is beyond me. I was never into comics before Buffy Season 8 but I never snubbed them like an uppity art snob.

 

[Skanky Vamp]

Lol, so... He doesn’t, and has never, read them,

You seemed to have missed the most obvious thing he said. Was wondering if anyone, other than myself, would pick it up:
Original comment:
"Now, I have nothing against comic books — I read them now and then when I was a kid"

Current comment:
"I don’t read comic books. I didn’t even read them when I was a child."

Maybe he meant he wasn't an avid reader, but... tend to think the original comment might have been made in hopes of placating comic book fans before denouncing them. And the second comment speaks more to the truth of the matter. Either way, curious.

 

[Kratos]

Never even heard of Bill Maher. Never really got into superhero comic books myself, even though I’m a fan of superhero films and tv shows, but I’ve loved Sonic the Comic (STC) since I was 9.