Bin Laden human rights

Cast No Shadow

You are my world.
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Sorting watching Newsnight, and theyre questioning whether bin laden's death was lawful and if his human rights were adhered to. I can't believe it, it's disgusting,he didn't care about the human rights of the people in 9/11 so why on earth should he be granted any?

Makes me so angry.

---------- Post added at 10:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

Sitting, not sorting.
 
Because by saying that he doesn't deserve any is just like him saying those in the Western world don't deserve theirs. It's putting you on the same level, and as the 'good' guys we should rise above it to show that that kind of behaviour is unacceptable. I do find it hypocritical when people say that, but then anger and loss are powerful emotions so I can kind of understand where they're coming from.

As for the practicalities of it, it looked like a case of minimising any further death and damage. I doubt they were concerned with human rights at the time.
 
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Ms.Trick
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Tome
Tome
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Washburne
Washburne
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It's the exact same debate as death penalty, except that Bin Laden is the cause of so many death we can almost consider it to be a genocyde against human non-islamic people. In some states, death penalty still exists, but for, I think, the majority of the world, it has been aborted.
But the issue is still the same: is it okay to kill someone because he killed? Is it a right to kill someone who didn't respect someone else's rights?

The whole "killing someone as a punishment" just seems so...primal to me. As for Bin Laden, it was a no-winning situation.

Either you let him live, knowing he will continue his terror.
Or you kill him, taking the risk they are retaliations, and knowing that killing the leader doesn't kill the movement.
Or you lock him up someway, knowing his followers won't hesitate attacking to free him.
It's really a situation where you can't take a good decision, because either way, they will find a reason to strike (back).

And I must admit, even if it's possibly a good thing he's gone, even if it brings closure to millions of people, I still feel uneasy about the fact that he didn't die, he was killed. And the question for me then isn't "Does he have the right to live" but "do we have the right to kill him?"
It's not about him, it's about "Can we really be above the laws when it's about a mass murderer?"
 
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zobothehobo
So perfectly stated.
Gum Gnome33
Gum Gnome33
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Washburne
Washburne
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wickedwill
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nmcil12
nmcil12
Bravo -
Both very valid points!
Can't help disagreeing though 😛. Not personally completely against the death penalty, sorry if that's abhorrent to certain people!
 
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sisterofmercy
Each to their own, everyone's entitled to an opinion :)
I think it's inevitable that people started this debate. There is always going to be SOMEONE who questions the actions of the military, the President, the Prime Minster, whatever. There are still those people out there who think we were wrong for going to war in the first place, and it's those people who are bringing up this subject now.

Do I think it was wrong to kill bin Laden? No, absolutely not. He had no concerns about the human rights of the people he killed, so why should his be taken into consideration?

I've said it before, I do agree with the death penalty, IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES, but I don't think the death of anyone should be celebrated. After what he did, bin Laden deserved to be executed. If he was put on trial to be held accountable for his actions, the result would have been the same thing.
 
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Cast No Shadow
Agree completely.
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OhWow
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why are the news media around the western world (it's the same here in germany) debating about the execution of osama?
well, why shouldn't they, it's their job! if they just report "newsflash: osama is dead....., and now the weather for tomorrow" they could all pack their bags and go home 😀
if there wasn't for the osama incident, they would still discuss the bigbad nuclear energy with some treehuggers...
 
Lyri
Lyri
LMFAO! Sorry!! In my defense, it
why are the news media around the western world (it's the same here in germany) debating about the execution of osama?
well, why shouldn't they, it's their job! if they just report "newsflash: osama is dead....., and now the weather for tomorrow" they could all pack their bags and go home 😀
if there wasn't for the osama incident, they would still discuss the bigbad nuclear energy with some treehuggers...

What the...what? I'm probably just being really thick, but this really made no sense to me 🙁 sorry, chicken 🙁
 
What the...what? I'm probably just being really thick, but this really made no sense to me 🙁 sorry, chicken 🙁

She means that if they weren't discussing something like Osama's human rights, or the question of whether or not we had the right to kill him, then there would be nothing worth talking about.

Once news of Osama's death hit, that was it, end of story. The news stations need something to talk about to keep this story on the air, and what better way than arguing for Osama's human rights?
 
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Guiltypleasure
HE!!, but yeah, thats what i tried to explain
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Cast No Shadow
Ah ok, been up for about 20 hours working so my brain is fried! Thanks for clarifying, and thanks to Guiltypleasure for the original post.
Part of the point of the concept of human rights is that by definition, everybody should be entitled to them regardless of what they've done. Hence fair trials where you have the opportunity to know what the charges against you are, and have the proper legal representation to defend yourself. And if you're sent to prison, you're held in sanitary conditions, fed and have access to medical care if you fall ill. Once you say that somebody who kills on a massive scale has forfeited their human rights, the whole concept goes out of the window.

The trouble with any idea of bringing bin Laden to trial would have been that it would have had to be held under American-style rules of evidence (i.e. paper trails linking him to 9/11, etc.) and the legal team appointed to defend him could have argued that his name had been so blackened in the Western media over the last ten years that he could never be tried fairly.
 
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sisterofmercy
Good point
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Cast No Shadow
Interesting :)
Lyri agrees: LMFAO! Sorry!! In my defense, it

Sorry, hit enter too quick. What I meant to say was, in my defense, it's 2am, and I'm high on painkillers, lol. I didn't really take the time to look! Sorry, again!

I think I need more painkillers.

*wanders off*
 
I don't really trust the reporting about bin Laden right now (SO much misinformation out there!) and I don't think anyone really has a clear picture of everything that went down, but even if Osama was simply captured, he'd probably waive his right to trial anyway, wouldn't he?

I don't believe in the suspension of human rights for anyone, even the worst among us, but I feel like his death was inevitable either way. He'd make sure he went out like a martyr.
 
It's called universal human rights for a reason, people. If you don't have a problem excluding people who are "just terrorists", you pretty much become hypocritical if you blame the Nazis for killing "just Jews", or the KKK for "just n-words"... or, indeed, Al Qaeda blowing up two skyscrapers with a bunch of "just infidel imperialists" inside. If universal human rights don't matter, there's not much reason why anyone who wasn't close friend or family with someone in the WTC should be expected to give a damn about some autumn Tuesday ten years ago.

If you think Osama had any less right to live than one of the 3000 dead of 9/11, I will vehemently disagree with you, because the truth is, your views scare me.
 
Lyri
Lyri
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Cast No Shadow
I don't think what I said should scare you, I have my own reasons. I like your point, it makes good sense.
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zobothehobo
I love you. I love you very much.
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Aloverssoulz
I agree with her.
November
November
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As much as I can relate with you hismrs, I can't support anything about this war. The troops I do support, and love whole heartedly. My brother in law is in the army, and I have many close friends who are too. But war in itself is a horrible device I can't condone. Any war.


I remember that day well, and although I wasn't directly affected by 9/11, I was by the murrah building bombing in 95. That was MY city, my friends relatives, my mom who volunteered for cleanup, and it's still my city with one of the most solemn memorials I've ever been to. I remember mcveigh and nichols arrests, trials, and convictions. I remember mcveigh's death, and people upset that they didn't both get the death penalty. But would it have been right for the cops who arrested these men to have shot them point blank to ensure they both got the death they rightfully earned? No. would there be anyone upset if this had happened? I can't imagine so. But it still wouldn't have been right to deny them their trial.

Bin laden deserved what he got. No arguments. And it's probably safer to simply shoot him then capture him and have the risk that someone is gonna do something to try and free him. It would have caused more violence and lots of people could be in danger. But was it necessarily the "right" thing to do when we get into the code of law and human rights? I am not sure.

I relate it to this: westbouro baptist church in kansas is DISGUSTING. For those of you who don't know them, please don't go to their website directly. They spread hate. They have been boycotting our troops funerals because, in a nutshell, God hates homosexuals, america loves them, and so all of our service members who protect america are going to hell. they are just gross. Lots of people were veryupset when the supreme court protected their right to free speech. Is what they do right? No. But it's their rights, and I have to side with the supreme court.
 
Washburne
Washburne
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Lyri
Lyri
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It's called universal human rights for a reason, people. If you don't have a problem excluding people who are "just terrorists", you pretty much become hypocritical if you blame the Nazis for killing "just Jews", or the KKK for "just n-words"... or, indeed, Al Qaeda blowing up two skyscrapers with a bunch of "just infidel imperialists" inside. If universal human rights don't matter, there's not much reason why anyone who wasn't close friend or family with someone in the WTC should be expected to give a damn about some autumn Tuesday ten years ago.
But, but, but... Bin Laden started it! He did something horrible to me/us/"our" people. He so deserved it. He's a bad man. How many did the jews kill? Hitler deserved to die but he had no right killing them.

Sorry, that's not my thoughts. Just how I imagine many people seeing it. If you know me, you can probably guess where I'm heading. Perspective. We think this, they think that. We're right, they're wrong. Guess what, some think the total opposite. You will, obviously think you're right, no matter what side you're on. But if you can view something as "I'm right" you need to acknowledge that someone with different opinion think the same about their opinion. What is the best way to find a solution? Kill them all?

Since people have read things about what I've said before I just want to say that if that sounded like I'm against defending yourself, your loved ones or your country please know that it's not the case. As for military I'm confident that most soldiers don't want to use weapons or violence. And that's the way it should be. Defending your country or someone elses country is nobel and I'd never dream of giving them a hard time about it. Sometimes I don't agree with the methods of the military as a whole but to me that's a different thing.


If you think Osama had any less right to live than one of the 3000 dead of 9/11, I will vehemently disagree with you, because the truth is, your views scare me.
Even if I don't agree with them I'd give them some slack. If you're closely affected by something your emotions run high, your mind gets clouded (in lack of me thinking of a better word). You're right and anyone that disagrees are obviously wrong. Be it about a terrorist attack or your favourite couple on a tv-show. One is just much, much, much more important and sensitive.

I get that people wanted him dead.
I get that people are happy that he's dead.
I'm not sad that he's dead.
Feeling that way is most likely normal.

If someone were responsible for killing close ones to me I sure would be affected and wanting revenge. I have no doubt what so ever. So in no way am I blaming people for how they feel. That doesn't mean that what I'd be thinking in that situation, or how many people are thinking about the death of Bin Laden are "right". Yeah, that'll probably be taken the wrong way...


I so wish I could express myself better.


How many people can calmy "take" being told that others think they wrong, when they're upset or just filled up with emotions? Not many so I get why people are reacting the way they do as well. Most have trouble even when they're at peace. And that's why I shouldn't have posted in the first place. Bad me.
 
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sisterofmercy
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Cast No Shadow
Agree completely :) I'm a bit biased, I knew someone very well who was killed on 9/11. Ergh, HATE putting stuff like that, not wanting sympathy, just letting you know where my views come from :)
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Zeppo
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OhWow
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I'm going to go with Barbara Walters on this one "I don't care if he was asleep with two puppies" he deserved what he got. I didn't celebrate his death but I do think that it was necessary. I don't think it was a final solution to our World terror problem, but it was still a battle won and hopefully lives saved.
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Does George Bush deserve to be killed for all those innocent Iraqi people who were murdered in the name of searching for weapons AKA oil? Should Shimon Peres be killed for the death of the innocent people in Gaza Strip? I actually comforted a fellow Palestinian teacher because her uncle's family's house was bombed and her family was murdered for doing nothing. There are a lot of deaths all around the world caused by greedy murderers who have the power to save themselves from justice. I'm completely sick of the war and the deaths. I just wish those sick people would get a grip and let us all live in peace.
 
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Ms.Trick
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sisterofmercy
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zobothehobo
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Washburne
Washburne
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prophecygrrl
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If you think Osama had any less right to live than one of the 3000 dead of 9/11, I will vehemently disagree with you, because the truth is, your views scare me.
In theory you are correct. But when you orchestrate the events which bring about the death of those 3000 and jumpstart a 'war' you then can expect to suffer from the consequences OF war. That being, among other things, death. He got it quick and easy. Two to the head and one to the chest. It was a good clean death.. not like they strapped him to a chair and beheaded him for the whole world to see.

I know I am the ole right wing conservative.. but this world needs more eye for an eye. I support capital punishment (sometimes without even due process!! oh the horror!)

You know what? I am all for removing some human "rights" too.. when did 'rights' become privilege. You get incarcerated and you have better television stations and food than I do? Please! Why should a criminal get something that I as a law-friggin-abiding citizen can't justify paying for?

OOpps.. tangent, sorry..
 
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arabella
tangent karma. I can't explain how irksome it is that I am paying for criminals to have cable...I don't have cable.
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OhWow
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