"Birthday", wasn't Angel supposed to save Cordy in the pilot...

[King of Hell]

Whether he met her in the party or not? That scene in the party was irrelevant, she went back with him after he saved her, after Doyle had a vision...

& Angel going crazy after having those visions & losing Doyle? i believe he was supposed to be the meanest vampire in all the land, which makes him one of the strongest, so the visions shouldn't hurt much...& losing Doyle would really make him sad, but come on, he lost Buffy, he lost Connor, he suffered in hell for at least a century, his son trapped him in the ocean for 3 months, he gave up his happiness with the love of his life "Buffy" after spending his perfect day with her, all that didn't make him crazy, but no Cordy would make him crazy? she's no goddess.

& on a side note, how exactly did Doyle pass up his visions? ok that's really disturbing...

 

[ToShanshuInLA]

Have you watched season 4? Also, kissing probably isn't the only way to pass on visions. I'm sure the PTB could have just given them to Angel after Doyle died.

 

[King of Hell]

yeah i've watched the show once on TV & twice on DVD.
i know that the alternate world COULD be a lie, but is cordelia really that stupid, she's the one who was saved so she's the one who has to remember how she got to work with Angel in the first place. before watching S4 i thought it was a mistake by the writers or something.

 

[ScoobyGroupie]

I never really liked the alternate reality in this episode. Didn't make much sense. I couldn't believe Angel, a vampire, a half-demon, went crazy with the visions when Doyle, also a half-demon, never did. Plus Cordy, a human, survived with them just fine up to this point. I suppose the point was to show how much he needed Cordy though. Her support made the group strong and sane I suppose. That's my reasoning.

 

[caitaintdead]

I would say that this episode just brings it back to whether you like Cangel or not. Personally I hate them as a couple, and in some ways even as close friends, so I hate all the storylines about how wonderfully Cordelia supposedly is. I don't see why not having Cordelia in his life would cause such catastrophe. Especially seeing as how he's not completely alone - he has Gunn and Wesley.

And I just don't buy that he would go crazy from the visions, I don't care how it's fanwanked, it just doesn't make sense! He can survive 200 years in a hell dimension and get over it after a couple of weeks of tai-chi or whatever he does, but a few months of what Cordelia could handle? Pft. Sif that would make him crazy.

 

[King of Hell]

it was all a way to manipulate Cordy, i don't believe a thing about that alternate reality.

 

[Chris2]

Yep, the simplest explanation is that Skip (and/or Jasmine) created it from whole cloth. I don't know whether the writers had that in mind at the time, though, or if it was supposed to be genuine at that point. If it was, then yeah, it doesn't make that much sense.

 

[King of Hell]

they planned it all along from the start, but it was supposed to be Doyle, not Jasmine. its because of Glenn Quinn's death, everything changed, & because Cordelia was pregnant & never told Joss Whedon early, it made Season 4 a little of a mess. Jasmine was a last ditch plan.

 

[eunsoma]

What do you mean it was supposed to be Doyle? Was Doyle going to return as a big bad?

 

[VampireJason]

Joss and David Fury confirmed had Quinn never died, Doyle would've been brought back as the Big Bad, most likely in Season Four. After he died of a drug overdose, the Jasmine storyline was scrapped. By watching Angel Season Three over again it wouldn't surprise me if Skip was intended to be working with Doyle, trying to find a way to bring him back.

 

[Falcon]

I did not know that! Do you know where they (Joss & David) confirmed that? I'm just curious if I missed it while watching the extras and commentaries on the DVD. It certain would make more sense b/c I always felt that the way S4 was done just seemed off...