Birthday

C

caritas08

lornelover
Joined
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I'm sorry if this has been discussed before but I was watching Birthday last night and as much as I love Cordy I don't think Angel would be a crazy person in a dark room if she had never teamed up with him. Even if he had gotten the visions it wouldn't have made him that crazy. Angel needed her sure, but I can't help feeling that the whole tv star Cordy reality was Jasmine/Skip trying to manipulate her into choosing to be part demon (and therefore a strong enough vessel to give birth to Jasmine).

I love Cordy but she almost becomes too dependent on the visions towards the end, i.e. not telling anyone about her pain in That Vision Thing, not telling anyone about her catscans for the past year, and eventually ascending to be a higher power without questioning it all. Any thoughts?
 
Interesting post... I agree about Angel. I definitely don't think he would have went off the deep end like that, had Cordy never gotten the visions. I don't know about Jasmine manipulating her alternate reality, but it's definitely an interesting POV. 😀
 
I loved Birthday. And I don't think Angel would have been all crazy like he is here, but how did Doyle give Angel the visions? The same way he gave them to Cordelia? (sw)
 
R
ruth
Hehehe - I like!! I mean how else would that happen??
Bluebird said:
I loved Birthday. And I don't think Angel would have been all crazy like he is here, but how did Doyle give Angel the visions? The same way he gave them to Cordelia? (sw)
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I always think that, Angel must have been batting for the other side after his break up with Buffy to recieve the visions haha. I like the whole idea of this episode but Angel being crazy doesn't seem right. If he can survive hundreds of years of torture in hell and survive the visions would be a walk in the park for him.
 
Yeah, it doesn't seem like Angel(or AI) would be in that much of a mess. Tbh it seems like they would have got on perfectly fine without her. So i totally agree with the OP, it makes sense that Skip would have shown her a false alternate world.
 
Great episode, Cordelia has changed so much since leaving Sunnydale. All the scenes with Skip were funny, love him.


So how many more episodes until she and Angel realize they're falling in love with one another?
 
B
BillyidolwannaB
Lol. You'l see. Your in for a big suprise v.soon :)
I read somewhere that it wasn't so much just the visions that drove Angel insane. It was a compilation of thing not having Cordy, Doyle dieing, recieving the vision and I'd think re-living the deaths of some of the people he killed as Angelus, oh and the pain of having the visions. I mean I like to believe that all that would of had of tramatic effect on Angel.
 
BIRTHDAY

The Good;
Cordy's sitcom is great and some excellent crazy acting from DB. Also nice to see Doyle again if only in a clip.

The Bad;
Feels a bit laboured in places. How can the message in one dimension still be there in another (Jasmine?)

Best line:
Skip; "Get out of here. No really, get out of here"

Jeez, how did they get away with that?

Apocalypses: 5

Angel Cliches

Inverting the Hollywood cliche;

In disguise; 8

DB get's his shirt off; 12

Cordy's tattoo; yep when she's ripping the wallpaper off so that makes 10. Note it's not CC doing the somersault on her show's credits because you don't see her tattoo.

Cheap Angel; 7

Fang Gang in bondage: no although Wes and Gunn use manacles to restrain mad Angel.
Cordy: 5
Angel: 11
Wes: 6
Gunn; 3
Lorne; 2

Fang gang knocked out: CC for the whole ep
Cordy: 12
Angel: 14
Wes: 5
Doyle; 1
Gunn; 1
Lorne; 2

Kills:
Cordy: 5 vamps, 3½ demons
Angel; 32 vamps, 45 and 1/2 demons, 7 humans
Doyle; 1 vamp
Wes; 10 demons+3 vamps, 2 humans
Kate; 3 vamps
Faith; 16 vamps, 6 demons, 3 humans.
Gunn; 8 vamps+ 7 demons.

Fang Gang go evil:
Cordy: 2
Angel: 2

Alternate Fang Gang: Angel possessed by CC
Cordy: 2
Angel: 8

Characters killed:
45

Recurring characters killed;
8;

Total number of Angel Investigations:
6, Angel, Cordy, Wes, Gunn, Fred and Lorne

Angel Investigations shot:
Angel: 11
Wes; 1

Packing heat;
Wes; 5
Doyle; 1
Angel; 1
Gunn; 1

Notches on Fang Gang bedpost:
Cordy: 3 ?+Wilson/Hacksaw Beast+Phantom Dennis
Angel: 5; Buffy, Darla and The Transcending Furies
Wes; 2; Virginia and the bleached blonde

Kinky dinky:
Fred mentions she didn't wear underwear for 5 years. Gunn goes through CC's lingerie. To judge by CC's cleavage exposing outfit on her show this must be sweeps week?

Captain Subtext;
If Cordy wasn't around does this mean Doyle's last act was to kiss Angel? Love the CC as Wonder Woman cake the gang get for Cordy, too bad Joss went off the idea of making the film. Gunn comments that Fred is so cool. Wes refer to Gunn as his 'partner'. CC and Angel kiss

Know the face, different character; 4

Parking garages;
5,

Guantanamo Bay;

Buffy characters on Angel; 16
Wetherby, Collins and Smith. Angel, Cordy, Oz, Spike, Buffy, Wes, Faith, Darla, Dru, The Master, Anne, Willow and Harmony

Questions and observations;
So this is a world where CC never joins AI. No Fred so presumably after Wes and Gunn rescue her she goes back to Texas? In a world without Cordy's influence does this mean Merle, Elana etc are all still alive? Pentagrams always bad news. What are Buffy and the Scoobs doing about mad Angel in this alternate reality? CC is now part demon as is Faith, Buffy etc. This is ep 55 so exactly half way through the series.
Marks out of 10; 6/10
 
I thought it was a nice episode. Cordelia was absolutely GORGEOUS as a movie star, and I loved the Cangel kiss. 🙂 I'm not a Cangel myself, but I think it's a very beautiful relationship, and the fact that Cordy would have taken the visions away from crazy Angel is really, really enticing.
 
It's not unlikely that Cordy was being manipulated even then. I mean, Skip was a Jasmine follower. But I prefer to think of it as more straightforward.


This is one of my favorite episodes. 😀
 
Does You're Welcome make this entire episode irrelevent? Cordy gave Angel the visions in that and he didn't go crazy, lol.
So, why would he go crazy here and not there?
 
GrrArghx3 said:
Does You're Welcome make this entire episode irrelevent? Cordy gave Angel the visions in that and he didn't go crazy, lol.
So, why would he go crazy here and not there?
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Well, if the alternate reality was just constructed to manipulate her then maybe irrelevant isn't really the right word. I don't know what it would be though.

But I don't think she passed on the full power of the visions in "You're Welcome", right? He only had that one vision, right?
 
Its weird, the whole Angel being crazy thing wasn't what got me in this episode. It was that Cordelia was so nice and really not at all like her Sunnydale self, I always thought if she didn't join AI she would have been more like her old self?
 
prophecygirl17 said:
Its weird, the whole Angel being crazy thing wasn't what got me in this episode. It was that Cordelia was so nice and really not at all like her Sunnydale self, I always thought if she didn't join AI she would have been more like her old self?
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I was just thinking about that when I rewatched Birthday last week. There's no way she would've acted like she did, especially had she gotten way famous. She'd probably be even that much more of a bitca because the fame would've gotten to her head, lol.

Of course, if you take into account that the entire thing was just a ruse to manipulate her for Jasmine, then I guess it kinda makes sense. But that's probably just fanwanking it.
 
GrrArghx said:
I was just thinking about that when I rewatched Birthday last week. There's no way she would've acted like she did, especially had she gotten way famous. She'd probably be even that much more of a bitca because the fame would've gotten to her head, lol.

Of course, if you take into account that the entire thing was just a ruse to manipulate her for Jasmine, then I guess it kinda makes sense. But that's probably just fanwanking it.
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It depends on how much we take into account. If we totally believe Skip then it was always Fate that Cordy was the work with Angel in the same way Buffy was always fated to die at the hands of the Master.

If it was the real Cordy independent of Fate then we still don't know exactly how her life went after leaving Sunnydale. It's possible that in either reality she simply grew up and matured. Isn't it a little narrow minded to think that being with Angel was the only thing that could change her? If we believe at least part of what Skip is saying, maybe people always have it in them to be something more, call it Fate, the PTBs or simple intuition. The path to greatness can have many detours, you know.
 
Liked this episode but there are some things I don't agree with...Angel being all crazy if Cordelia wouldn't have joined AI, Cordelia being a nice superstar and kissing Angel just like that with no apparent reason (she couldn't have known the vision are passed on like that)...it seemed that all fit to make it easier on the plot, maybe it's just me..oh, the ending's so fun!
 
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