Bit of a rant about Buffy and "depression"

[Spike Vicious]

I'm new here, so I'm still catching up on a lot of old conversations. There was one particular discussion in the Buffy Season 6 section regarding Buffy being overly depressed and whether it was an accurate portrayal of a real-life problem or needless navel-gazing and self pity. While I understand both sides and have heard plenty of arguments for them, overall I tend to agree with the latter assessment.

However, my problem isn't so much with back-from-the-dead, Season 6 Buffy "” annoying though she was. I can cut her some slack given the being-pulled-from-the-afterlife situation. Were this the first time we saw sad Buffy, I might be OK with it. But after her post-Angel and post-Riley bouts of depression, I wasn't interested in a third round. Regardless of whether it makes for good TV (I don't think so, but that's subjective), there's another reason it bothered me "” its potential affect on a certain segment of viewers.

Because the target audience was young and primarily adolescent, they can relate to being depressed and self-absorbed. But they need to be shown that wallowing in despair is not a valid option for dealing with your problems. I wish someone could have grabbed Buffy by the shoulders, looked her in the eye, and gave her the truth: "You're the Slayer. You have this awesome supernatural power to kick ass, a great group of friends, and you're young and good looking. Why are you crying over a guy?"

Hell, even if the episodes went down mostly the same, I just wish they would have had that message in there somewhere. Just something to balance all the navel-gazing. Here's the thing: I've been in a prolonged depressed state, as many people have. I was seriously depressed as a teen, and it was all because of girls. But then again, it really wasn't. It really was because of an incessant desire for self-pity "” a desire fueled by my cultural influences at the time. When I was a kid, I bought into the Hollywood version of romance, and during my adolescence, it grew into an unhealthful obsession. To make things worse, I was listening to music that brought those feelings to dangerous levels "” songs about heartbreak and even death "” and this completely distorted my view of reality.

I was like this to varying degrees from 13 to 16. But around my 17th birthday, I had an epiphany and gained perspective. My outlook changed completely, and it was because of something I read "” a positive cultural influence "” which promoted living life to the fullest and taught me to "pull the wool over your own eyes." From that moment on, I made it my mission to promote a similar set of values. For the next decade and a half, I was in bands and wrote songs with the intention of inspiring the listener to live life and think about shit in a different way (well, for the most part; I also wrote some pretty ridiculous songs as well, some not too socially productive).

When I see some sad sack whining about girl problems on MTV, it disgusts me. Similarly, when characters in TV shows I like act the same way, I can't wait for it to end. And I just wish it wasn't so prevalent. What's so bad about being single? Just because you're not "with someone" doesn't mean you're "alone." That is one of the lies I wish pop culture would stop force-feeding to the masses.

Now that I'm older and my problems are real "” I'm currently facing serious medical issues (need an organ transplant, and that's just for starters) "” I have even less sympathy for people crying about relationship problems, especially when they're on my TV. Of course, that's not to say I want to see all happy people with no problems. (I never wrote songs like "Don't Worry, Be Happ€; I'm into punk, after all.) But it's time we see more TV characters who don't give a shit about getting married and aren't afraid to "be alone."

 

[FaithsFollower]

I totally agree with this. It's so frustrating. Of course, in the Parker situation, I can kind of understand that. Even with Angel...yeah, I can understand that too, what with him being her first love and all, but Riley? Nope. She got no sympathy from me. Of course, I hated Riley so... 😉

Oh, three-time kidney transplant recipient here. Hi! 🙂

 

[dexeded]

ITA. I suppose it's so post-hearbreak people have something to identify with, or just to appeal to the teen demographic, but I found it tiresome. Even though Buffy does come to the conclusion that she doesn't need a boyfriend, she still constantly seeks one out--and that's fine. Some people are just looking for love. But when majority of TV characters have this characteristic of not being 'complete' with another half (whatever that means), it really gets on my nerves.

 

[Aimee]

Hmm, I dunno, I think we should cut her a bit of slack. All teenagers get depressed over break ups but she also had to save the world (a lot). Being the slayer doesn't mean she's not still a teen. If she didn't get depressed now and then I'd have thought it weird. I still think she's an incredibly strong character who goes through all the 'normal' teen and young adult stuff plus a whole lot more (saving people's lives is a biggie!).

 

[Robb Stark]

I think you kind of answered yourself why so many people are into those types of shows. Networks continue to create and produce them because they are targeted toward a demographic that typically relates to them. You said yourself that relationship woes are a big part of high school (which they are), so of course most high school centered shows are going to make romances and how their characters react to them focal points of their programming.

As for Buffy, I had no problems, at all, with her when she was depressed. With what happens with Angel, she has to see her boyfriend go evil, kill a number of her friends and then have to kill him. That's pretty heavy. I mean, I didn't really see that as them just "breaking up". When she splits with Riley, she cries about it for one episode (which, to be fair, was a horrible episode). The entire theme of S6 was a metaphor young people in their 20's growing up and having to deal with everyday life, and how hard that can be.

(And I don't think Buffy ever really saw being the Slayer as fun so that she could have super powers. It was a duty that was forced on her. I mean, sure, having super strength and all that has it's pluses, but a Slayer's entire existence revolves around death, destruction and a short life span. I don't think Buffy ever saw it as a good time)

Fact is, people wallow. I think at some point, we've all been guilty of it. I know I have (and still am, from time to time). That's part of what makes Buffy relatable, and what makes her a deep character. Also, the part you left out is that in all of those instances you listed, she overcomes her grief and rises above it. Sure, she runs away to L.A., but she comes back. The same applies to how lost she is in S6. She goes through a lot, but despite everything that happens to her, it never breaks her.

I think that is an incredible message.

 

[Kean]

I'm new here, so I'm still catching up on a lot of old conversations. There was one particular discussion in the Buffy Season 6 section regarding Buffy being overly depressed and whether it was an accurate portrayal of a real-life problem or needless navel-gazing and self pity. While I understand both sides and have heard plenty of arguments for them, overall I tend to agree with the latter assessment.

However, my problem isn't so much with back-from-the-dead, Season 6 Buffy "” annoying though she was. I can cut her some slack given the being-pulled-from-the-afterlife situation. Were this the first time we saw sad Buffy, I might be OK with it. But after her post-Angel and post-Riley bouts of depression, I wasn't interested in a third round. Regardless of whether it makes for good TV (I don't think so, but that's subjective), there's another reason it bothered me "” its potential affect on a certain segment of viewers.

Because the target audience was young and primarily adolescent, they can relate to being depressed and self-absorbed. But they need to be shown that wallowing in despair is not a valid option for dealing with your problems. I wish someone could have grabbed Buffy by the shoulders, looked her in the eye, and gave her the truth: "You're the Slayer. You have this awesome supernatural power to kick ass, a great group of friends, and you're young and good looking. Why are you crying over a guy?"

Hell, even if the episodes went down mostly the same, I just wish they would have had that message in there somewhere. Just something to balance all the navel-gazing. Here's the thing: I've been in a prolonged depressed state, as many people have. I was seriously depressed as a teen, and it was all because of girls. But then again, it really wasn't. It really was because of an incessant desire for self-pity "” a desire fueled by my cultural influences at the time. When I was a kid, I bought into the Hollywood version of romance, and during my adolescence, it grew into an unhealthful obsession. To make things worse, I was listening to music that brought those feelings to dangerous levels "” songs about heartbreak and even death "” and this completely distorted my view of reality.

I was like this to varying degrees from 13 to 16. But around my 17th birthday, I had an epiphany and gained perspective. My outlook changed completely, and it was because of something I read "” a positive cultural influence "” which promoted living life to the fullest and taught me to "pull the wool over your own eyes." From that moment on, I made it my mission to promote a similar set of values. For the next decade and a half, I was in bands and wrote songs with the intention of inspiring the listener to live life and think about shit in a different way (well, for the most part; I also wrote some pretty ridiculous songs as well, some not too socially productive).

When I see some sad sack whining about girl problems on MTV, it disgusts me. Similarly, when characters in TV shows I like act the same way, I can't wait for it to end. And I just wish it wasn't so prevalent. What's so bad about being single? Just because you're not "with someone" doesn't mean you're "alone." That is one of the lies I wish pop culture would stop force-feeding to the masses.

Now that I'm older and my problems are real "” I'm currently facing serious medical issues (need an organ transplant, and that's just for starters) "” I have even less sympathy for people crying about relationship problems, especially when they're on my TV. Of course, that's not to say I want to see all happy people with no problems. (I never wrote songs like "Don't Worry, Be Happy"; I'm into punk, after all.) But it's time we see more TV characters who don't give a shit about getting married and aren't afraid to "be alone."

There's a couple of things here that I agree with: I don't think S6 made for entertaining television and I would also like to see more characters who embrace independence and self sufficiency. So, there's that.

However, I can't say I feel the same as you do in relation to Buffy and depression. It is absolutely fantastic for you that you found a way through your own depressive episodes , but depression has many faces and it looks different on everyone.

First of all, a clarification: Buffy wasn't depressed over a guy. It wasn't about a failed relationship or her being alone. Yes, there was a guy, but he was more something she used to deal with her depression, rather than the cause of it. Buffy was resurrected. She was happy and at peace and she had that ripped out of her hands and was thrust back into a world that broke her down at every turn. She was in the midst of a full on depressive episode. That's Depression with a capital "D". It isn't something you can just shake yourself out of or decide to not do anymore. All you do is ride it out and hope you see the other side. It's an illness and it requires treatment, not some home truths and kick up the arse.

There are instances during the show where I feel depression is shown in characters as an exercise in being self-absorption (Willow after Oz leaves, for example), but that wasn't what Buffy was dealing with here. She was ill, not selfish.

 

[Spike Vicious]

I don't think people got my point at all. The point was that I think TV show writers, as well as songwriters and other people in the pop culture world, should not perpetuate the myth of being single as being "incomplete" and that teenagers should be taught that feeling sorry for yourself is not the best way to cope with things. I don't really see how anyone can disagree with that.

I used Buffy as an example, but I didn't intend for this to be about her solely. I put a lot time into that post, and now I feel like it was a wasted effort. To wit:

First of all, a clarification: Buffy wasn't depressed over a guy. It wasn't about a failed relationship or her being alone. Yes, there was a guy, but he was more something she used to deal with her depression, rather than the cause of it. Buffy was resurrected. She was happy and at peace and she had that ripped out of her hands and was thrust back into a world that broke her down at every turn.

However, my problem isn't so much with back-from-the-dead, Season 6 Buffy "” annoying though she was. I can cut her some slack given the being-pulled-from-the-afterlife situation.

I thought I made this pretty clear, but somehow it failed. It's a shame because I think this show dealt with a lot of topics that I'd like to discuss, but if no one's going to try to understand what I'm saying, it ain't worth it.

 

[Jodast]

@Spikie Vicious Nice post, well written and well reasoned, but...

BTVS ultimately has a great message; bad things happen and they hurt and you may not know how to deal with the things that you face, but with time, effort, support and friendship, anything can be overcome. Season 6 was the epitome of this. Yes it was dark and, to a certain degree, depressing, but at the end of it friendship won through.

That's my main point so feel free to go to the next post because I am going to talk about myself for a bit now 🙂

I was diagnosed with depression at 17, did a few years of therapy and to this day I am not beyond a good case of self-loathing, end-of-the-world misery from time to time. The one thing that is always guaranteed to get me through an episode of depression is an episode (or 10) of Buffy. The issues faced are metaphors and in many cases, simple amplifications of things we go through in real life. I don't look at the show like 'Buffy can do it, so I can, too!' it's more like 'Hey the writers get what I am going through and they know what to do and say to ease the pain and entertain me at the same time.'

That's how I see it anyway.

 

[Robb Stark]

I don't think people got my point at all. The point was that I think TV show writers, as well as songwriters and other people in the pop culture world, should not perpetuate the myth of being single as being "incomplete" and that teenagers should be taught that feeling sorry for yourself is not the best way to cope with things. I don't really see how anyone can disagree with that.

I used Buffy as an example, but I didn't intend for this to be about her solely. I put a lot time into that post, and now I feel like it was a wasted effort. To wit:







I thought I made this pretty clear, but somehow it failed. It's a shame because I think this show dealt with a lot of topics that I'd like to discuss, but if no one's going to try to understand what I'm saying, it ain't worth it.

No, no, don't misunderstand me, I get what you're saying. From the message of your post, I do agree with it. I get what you're saying, not really about Buffy, but about the overall theme of the post. And don't get me wrong, it was very cool to read about how you got past some of the tough aspects in your life.

I hear what you're saying, and I suppose the answer lies in what your own belief in just what exactly television's role is when it comes to acting as role models for people. I would bet, for right or wrong, if you asked most Hollywood producers or writers, they would tell you that their role isn't to try and influence young people, even if they do have a medium that does. They would probably tell you that they are there to entertain and to ensure high ratings, that they didn't sign up to be role models. Sports stars do something similar when they have messy and public screw ups. Now, obviously, the simple truth of the matter is that it's more complicated that that. Whether they signed up for it or not, they are role models. That's just a fact. So I hear what you're saying.

But not every character can be Captain America. Not every character can always just rise above everything that happens to them in life. Regardless of the message it sends out, would television be interesting if it did? I mentioned this to some extent in my previous post, but I thought the way that Buffy acted was brilliant, both in creating interesting and compelling T.V. and in the message she does send out to people who are influenced by and identify with her. Speaking personally, I can fully count myself into that group, and I know that the way that Buffy came back from everything, the way that she got up after falling, was a big influence on my own life.

Don't think that your post wasn't appreciated. It's always cool to see someone write passionately about things, especially when it connects to them in real life.

 

[Spike Vicious]

I guess I just have a totally different set of values and different frame of reference from most of you, likely shaped by our probably vastly different life experiences.

Right now my life is at the lowest point ever in my 36 years on this planet, and it's not just "hard times" but a complicated situation that for the first time, I really can't see how I'm going to pull through. I'm hella depressed, to the point where I contemplate ways of offing myself and making it look accidental. Without going into details, I'll just say that the fact that I'm on an organ transplant list is the least of my worries. (If that was my only problem, I'd be pretty happy because at least there's a clear-cut solution "” a beginning and an end.) Regardless, though this has a serious psychological effect on me, it doesn't affect my day-to-day actions. I still know how to enjoy myself and have managed to create for myself a decent existence, all things considered. But it is getting trickier.

That being said, I still believe art wields a lot of power and can be an instrument of good, and I guess my idealism comes from having being on the creative side of things. And as I mentioned before, I wanted to use Buffy as more of a reference point to my larger argument about artistic purpose than to critique the show in itself.

 

[Robb Stark]

I guess I just have a totally different set of values and different frame of reference from most of you, likely shaped by our probably vastly different life experiences.

Right now my life is at the lowest point ever in my 36 years on this planet, and it's not just "hard times" but a complicated situation that for the first time, I really can't see how I'm going to pull through. I'm hella depressed, to the point where I contemplate ways of offing myself and making it look accidental. Without going into details, I'll just say that the fact that I'm on an organ transplant list is the least of my worries. (If that was my only problem, I'd be pretty happy because at least there's a clear-cut solution "” a beginning and an end.) Regardless, though this has a serious psychological effect on me, it doesn't affect my day-to-day actions. I still know how to enjoy myself and have managed to create for myself a decent existence, all things considered. But it is getting trickier.

That being said, I still believe art wields a lot of power and can be an instrument of good, and I guess my idealism comes from having being on the creative side of things. And as I mentioned before, I wanted to use Buffy as more of a reference point to my larger argument about artistic purpose than to critique the show in itself.

I thought for a long time about how, or even if, I should respond to this. My initial impulse was that I shouldn't. At first, I wasn't sure what I should say and frankly, I was almost completely sure that there was nothing I could say that would be of any help to you. But after mulling it over for some time, I decided that while that may very well be true, that I can't say or do anything to help, that does not, for one second, excuse me from trying. After pondering that conclusion for a while longer, I realized exactly what I could say. The answer I was looking for was lying right in front of me. I have to try, because if I don't, well, what the hell is the point of anything?

This isn't meant to be a pep talk. I can't pretend to know what has happened to you, or what is happening to you now. But what I can do, even without knowing the situation, is understand. That part comes easy for me. I deliberated with myself for quite a while about if I should go into detail about this, if it was the proper forum to do so or if, honestly, anyone even cared about what I had to say. But then I came back to the last line of that first paragraph. To me, what counts is the fight. What counts is that I try. So while my heart is skipping a beat or two at the moment typing this, the overriding thought that's in my head, and the reason I'm not sending you this to you as a private message, is that if this helps you, or any one person who reads it, then hell, that's good enough for me. If 50 people read this and think I'm melodramatic or that I'm embarrassing myself, but one person gets something out of it, well, that's good enough for me. Context is needed to provide understanding, so let's take a leap off the diving board.

The last year and a half has almost broken me. There have been times, more than I like to admit, where I've come to an honest realization with myself that living and dying doesn't matter anymore. Not any desire to not die, but that if I did pass away, well, it wouldn't be so bad because hell, nothing has to be better than this.

I watched my golden retriever collapse on his walk and die in my arms, saw my cousin lose his new bride to a drunk driver in a senseless accident. I lost a job I loved and had worked so hard for to people I thought were some of my closest friends. That one hurt. I obsessed over a girl who never loved me back for years, before realizing that I was in love with an ideal, not her. That one hurt even more. I've had to watch my brother struggle everyday with MS, not once complaining about it, not once asking for pity. because how could I when he's being so strong?

Because of childish jealously I stopped checking in with my sister and closed my eyes as she spiraled out of control into into alcohol, drugs and partying. You know what I was angry with her about? My Father paid part of her university tuition and not mine. That's it. Because of my self-pitying idiocy I didn't even take the time to step in and help her as I saw her getting out of hand. Then, just over a year ago now, she came to my brother, parents and I and told us that she'd been date raped, had dropped out of school and couldn't piece her life back together without us.

I can't even begin to describe that feeling. It's a degree of self-loathing I hope you never have to experience. But I can truly and unequivocally say that I think about it every hour of every day, and that no matter how much I love her, no matter much I help her now, no matter how achingly sorry I am, no matter how much she loves me, it'll never be enough, ever. That's my cross to bear. That weight, which will, and should never go away, is my hell to live through.

So yes, I understand. I won't say that I've come to some magical solution, because I haven't. It took me a very long time to realize it, but the hardest thing in this world truly is to live in it. Life truly is the big bad a lot of the time. But ultimately, it's up to us to change it, to live in this world as we want it to be, so that we can show others what it can be. That's the fight. That's the mission. It doesn't really matter if we succeed or not, what DOES matter is that we try. Life will always be there to kick us when we're down, but if we don't keep getting up, then why bother? All that really matters is what we do, right here and now. I choose to think like that, even though it can be hard at times, and any day I could stop. But it won't be today, and it won't be tomorrow either.

I think most people can figure out where I got the inspiration for that last paragraph, and I'm glad I could tie this back to the original posting intent. Buffy and Angel were, and always will be, a major influence and ideal in my life, and frankly, I'm scared to think of where I would be without them. That's why I can't say enough about either show, and more than anything about Buffy herself. I love Buffy, and now you all know why.

Let's go to work.

 

[SlayerOfVampyrs]

First things first, I am very very sorry for your situation. :-\

That said, I feel the need to address your post. While I certainly agree that the media absolutely should stop pushing this idea that people are 'incomplete' unless they are in a couple, I never EVER got the sensing that was what 'Buffy' was trying to achieve.

For seven years, we watched this girl - This incredibly strong, beautiful, wonderful girl give herself to the world. She gave up so much to save it and the innocents in it. For seven years, we watched this girl have all of these unbearable burdens thrust upon her shoulders, burdens which she couldn't do anything about - Not really. Everything in her world was always spinning out of her control. Her search for a relationship, for an intimate connection to another person, had nothing to do with needing a relationship. Just as her depression over said relationships ending had little to do with the end of the relationships, with the exception of Angel the first time around, which...C'mon. We shouldn't have to defend her depression over that.

Buffy herself said it best in I Will Remember You: "I feel just like I've always wanted. Like a normal girl. Falling asleep in the arms of her normal boyfriend." The keyword here is normal. It always has been. Throughout Buffy's entire run, an underlying theme was always this girl's desperate search for normalcy.

It's nothing to do with the men. It's nothing to do with the relationship. It's nothing to do with having those men taken away. It's all got to do with normalcy. For Buffy, having a relationship is literally the ONLY thing that she feels like she can do as a normal girl. She's not desperately searching for a man; She's desperately searching for something, anything that feels normal and familiar to her. When those relationships end, the fact that she becomes so utterly and completely shattered every time is because she feels that her 'normal' is dying. Her normal is being ripped away from her. Continuously. Over and over again.

Isn't that, in a way, what we are all searching for? Normalcy? To have the ability to literally shed whatever physical or mental ailments we have and simply be accepted as normal? Or some version of it? In Buffy's mind, her abilities as a Slayer, while she accepted them, were certainly ailments. She never thought of them as much more than a curse, this much is evident throughout the entire run.

Taking a show like 'Buffy' at face value is just about the biggest mistake one can make while watching.

 

[Spike Vicious]

Always Bangel, I appreciate your thoughtful reply and can only wish you the best with all of that. Regarding your brother's condition, I think my biggest motivation is trying to be strong for my own family (parents and brother). They're the reason why I don't seriously think I'd off myself anytime soon. But at this point, I'm gonna stop talking about my problems because I'm turning into the sort of navel-gazing wanker I just railed against.

SlayerOfVampyrs, I understand what you're saying, but as I tried to point out (see below), I'm not trying to argue the particulars of this show. My only intention was to use it as a springboard to a larger discussion about the purpose of art.

And as I mentioned before, I wanted to use Buffy as more of a reference point to my larger argument about artistic purpose than to critique the show in itself.

Anyway, if it helps, I think I should point out that my favorite characters are dynamic, upbeat and a bit wacky. For all its faults, and it has plenty, my favorite show right now is Dr. Who. I'd rather not get into an argument about it, but I just think it would give you all a better understanding of where I'm coming from when I make my critiques. I'm a huge fan of British television and music (well, mostly older music).

 

[xfivebyfive]

I'm kind of offended by what youre saying about depression. I get what you're trying to say about social media. However clinical depression is an illness as real as cancer and calling someones who's depressed a navel-gazer is wrong. Buffy was not wallowing in her own misery. She was depressed no matter what anyone said to her or what she did she couldn't pull herself out of it.

People don't understand depression, they think the person is just choosing to be sad rather then happy, instead of it what it really is a mental illness and all your post is doing is perpetuating the misconceptions of depression.

You dont have to think it makes for good television but recognize it for what it is. Its not to encourage young people to as you put it "wallow in their misery" and should I add "supposed" misery as you made it clear you didnt think they showed valid reasons for her depression. The point was to show theyre not alone. It does get better. We see that when Buffy is finally able to pull herself out, when her life and Dawn's life is at risk she realizes how she really does want to live.

Your post is basically to shame anyone who is depressed, if you waste time hurting then you're just a "navel-gazing wanker." I'm glad you were able to pull yourself out of your depression, but it doesn't give you the right to pass judgement on other peoples depression.

 

[Spike Vicious]

I'm kind of offended by what youre saying about depression. I get what you're trying to say about social media. However clinical depression is an illness as real as cancer and calling someones who's depressed a navel-gazer is wrong. Buffy was not wallowing in her own misery. She was depressed no matter what anyone said to her or what she did she couldn't pull herself out of it.

People don't understand depression, they think the person is just choosing to be sad rather then happy, instead of it what it really is a mental illness and all your post is doing is perpetuating the misconceptions of depression.

You dont have to think it makes for good television but recognize it for what it is. Its not to encourage young people to as you put it "wallow in their misery" and should I add "supposed" misery as you made it clear you didnt think they showed valid reasons for her depression. The point was to show theyre not alone. It does get better. We see that when Buffy is finally able to pull herself out, when her life and Dawn's life is at risk she realizes how she really does want to live.

Your post is basically to shame anyone who is depressed, if you waste time hurting then you're just a "navel-gazing wanker." I'm glad you were able to pull yourself out of your depression, but it doesn't give you the right to pass judgement on other peoples depression.

Oh, I understand clinical depression, and I truly feel bad for anyone who suffers from it. But again:

When did I say anything about clinical depression? Words are being put in my mouth, again.

I was talking about the fact that teenagers (the subjects of this show and a large core of its audience) are NOT usually clinically depressed, but rather just lack the perspective to see that their problems are not the end of the world. And that I think it's important adults show them the way.

And with that, I think I'm done here. This is just ridiculous.

 

[xfivebyfive]

Oh, I understand clinical depression, and I truly feel bad for anyone who suffers from it. But again:

When did I say anything about clinical depression? Words are being put in my mouth, again.

I was talking about the fact that teenagers (the subjects of this show and a large core of its audience) are NOT usually clinically depressed, but rather just lack the perspective to see that their problems are not the end of the world. And that I think it's important adults show them the way.

And with that, I think I'm done here. This is just ridiculous.

Ok but youre not a psychologist are you? Who are you to tell someone their problems arent worthy of being in pain over?

No one is putting words in your mouth. Maybe you need to reread your own posts because youre saying a lot more then that. Everytime you belittle someones feelings or call their depression "navel-gazing' youre sending a message. And I dont agree with that message.

 

[Spike Vicious]

Ok but youre not a psychologist are you? Who are you to tell someone their problems arent worthy of being in pain over?

No one is putting words in your mouth. Maybe you need to reread your own posts because youre saying a lot more then that. Everytime you belittle someones feelings or call their depression "navel-gazing' youre sending a message. And I dont agree with that message.

I'm sorry if I've offended you, and clearly we're not on the same page. If you think I'm being harsh, it's because I'm talking about TV. Someone with real-life depression I would never "belittle."

Still, my overall point stands, and I'm upset you chose only to read certain parts. I don't like getting into prolonged Internet arguments, especially when I'm having to explain things I've already said, so I probably won't be sticking around here much longer, at least after I've finished having to explain myself. No bad feelings on my end. It was not my intention to ruin anyone's party, but I see that's starting to happen, so I should probably bow out as amicably as possible.

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:28 PM ----------

Just to clarify (because that seems to be my M.O. at this point):

I do take the problem of clinical depression very seriously. I suffered severe anxiety disorder for many years, so I fully understand how frustrating it is when people say “just get over it.” However, clinical depression is not something that is part of my conversation here.

To summarize:

I noted that I was depressed as a teen.

I noted that it was reinforced, if not sustained, by my cultural influences at the time.

I noted that when my cultural influences changed, so did my outlook.

Given the above, I came to the conclusion that cultural influences are important, and that I prefer it when those influences encourage kids to see beyond their small world.

I do not understand why this concept is so strange.

I thought this forum would be a good place to discuss ideas brought up in the TV shows. My mistake was forgetting that this is first and foremost about fandom, and my argument was lost in the analogy. The whole forest and trees thing.

However, just as all of you take Buffy very seriously, I take my ideas very seriously. So while you think I may have been harsh in my criticisms of her character, I felt pretty bummed after having put a lot of thought into my initial post only to have the most minute details trump my overall message.

But at the end of the day, I still believe navel-gazing is bad, and though it’s been a bit necessary, I’ve engaged in way too much of it here. Though I take my ideas seriously, I refuse to take myself this seriously. So I’d like to end on a lighter note. It’s Friday, and I’m going to actually enjoy myself this weekend, as I hope all of you do. Go out and live! I know it’s something I need to do more of.

 

[Taake]

I don't think people got my point at all. The point was that I think TV show writers, as well as songwriters and other people in the pop culture world, should not perpetuate the myth of being single as being "incomplete"
QUOTE]

Oh gees, do I agree with this... not necessarily about Buffy season 6 (which is what I associate Buffy and depression with) but in general I agree 🙂. One of my biggest griefs with this show is the "no one messes with my boyfriend" spoken in season two because I think that it's ridiculous and I cannot stand that being single is somehow taken a sign that you're lacking in life...

Frankly I would have enjoyed seeing Buffy single for more periods of time because she would have gotten the time to learn more about herself rather than obsessing about a partner.

Mind you, I don't necessarily think this is a problem in Buffy per se as much as I see it as a cultural problem reflected on TV shows and movies all over the place. To me it's an archaic notion, sorry to those who don't agree, and I would much have enjoyed seeing Buffy (as well as other fictional heroes and heroines) stand on their own rather than seeking validation and security from a significant other.

 

[Taake]

Ok but youre not a psychologist are you? Who are you to tell someone their problems arent worthy of being in pain over?

No one is putting words in your mouth. Maybe you need to reread your own posts because youre saying a lot more then that. Everytime you belittle someones feelings or call their depression "navel-gazing' youre sending a message. And I dont agree with that message.

Please remember that none (or at the very least) few of us are psychologists and can actually take a professional voice in this matter.

We all have opinions lets try to respect that. 🙂

 

[xfivebyfive]

Please remember that none (or at the very least) few of us are psychologists and can actually take a professional voice in this matter.

We all have opinions lets try to respect that. 🙂

I really dont feel I was being disrespectful of his opinion. I just said that he's not a psychologist which is in reference to the fact he was saying he wasn't talking about clinical depression but you can't know if the person is clinically depressed or not.

I wasn't attacking him, it was a valid point..