Black and white in Fandom

November

Yes Sir, Captain Tightpants
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Sineya
I have been playing hardcore fangirl this week and am getting frustrated again with the very black and white thinking of the loudest fans. You're either this or that, there is little (heard) in between. It seems odd and annoying to me, especially for shows that constantly flirt with shades of grey. Not just in relation to ship wars but also perceived beliefs and social programming.

What do you think? Do you notice this?
 
Ship wars are obviously going to be a "one or the other" situation which then ripples out across the fandom. Everyone has their reasons for shipping a certain pair over other alternatives, in some ways shipping isn't a choice, you don't choose who you ship, you just feel drawn to a particular pairing over others. Now this could be because of various factors personal to the shipper, and the ship wars happen because the shippers on either side view the other side as attacking them over their beliefs.
 
I have been playing hardcore fangirl this week and am getting frustrated again with the very black and white thinking of the loudest fans. You're either this or that, there is little (heard) in between. It seems odd and annoying to me, especially for shows that constantly flirt with shades of grey. Not just in relation to ship wars but also perceived beliefs and social programming.

What do you think? Do you notice this?
Hell yes!
Whilst I agree with the post above I think you can still try not to attack so much and to you know admit what you stan for has its flaws and gets things wrong.
I mean however much validation is cool isnt the point of a forum to be exposed to contrary opinions sometimes you even get to take on an idea you haven't considered before.
 
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It gets annoying. I'm open to be convinced and discuss topics, but some people just cross the line and make not wanting to participate anymore. I mean, what's the point of giving your point of view if it'll be mocked and discarded by the same people over and over and over again.
 
It gets annoying. I'm open to be convinced and discuss topics, but some people just cross the line and make not wanting to participate anymore. I mean, what's the point of giving your point of view if it'll be mocked and discarded by the same people over and over and over again.

Yeah totally. Some are so closed minded. They assume just because one person believes one thing that their reasons for believing it are all exactly the same as all the others who believe it. It's far more interesting to find out how people came to their views on a story, without the assumption and snobbery. I am glad this forum has the block option for persistent pests but others are not so civil.
 
Seems to happen more in the Bangel/Spuffy section, which I generally avoid like the plague. So I rarely hear about it. 😳
 
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Seems to happen more in the Bangel/Spuffy section, which I generally avoid like the plague. So I hear about it. 😳

My comments are in reference to the fans of many different shows, not specific to Buffy and Angel, nor to shipping. While ship wars are an ultimate example of black and white thinking, it happens across a range of topics (and off topics to be honest). I have noticed this across fandom in general and wonder what drives it or if those behind it are even aware of their limitations in discussions.
 
HowiMetdaSlayer
HowiMetdaSlayer
oops missed the 'rarely' 😳
My comments are in reference to the fans of many different shows, not specific to Buffy and Angel, nor to shipping. While ship wars are an ultimate example of black and white thinking, it happens across a range of topics (and off topics to be honest). I have noticed this across fandom in general and wonder what drives it or if those behind it are even aware of their limitations in discussions.
You make a good point a mate of mine at the weekend talking about superhero films said he was getting a bit sick of everything either being the best thing evar or sucking beyond the telling of it. Also of people assuming that if you critise one component of something it's means you thought it sucked as a whole when he's actually said about media he liked or even loved. And the reverse too -that just because a piece of media contained something that hit it out of park with one thing it doesn't mean it was good as a whole. It seems to be general malaise we're losing nuance people! - get me some stat! The humourous broadcaster Charlie Brooker said around the time Trump got elected -remember when everything was meh - I miss meh.
 
November
November
Spot on
I have been playing hardcore fangirl this week and am getting frustrated again with the very black and white thinking of the loudest fans. You're either this or that, there is little (heard) in between.

Could you give specific examples? How bad is it with other fandoms?

I know that most people come on these boards to debate and discuss things so some conflict is to be expected. And I get that the black and white blinkered view is frustrating but how you express yourself is equally important, if not more.
I think other peoples views need to be respected even if we have completely different opinions of characters.
There are some out there who make a habit of attacking the poster, not the post.
 
I really don't mind people expressing opposing views...however, if it gets to the point where someone decides to attack me, well....I'll play along. Especially if I'm bored. I just DON'T CARE that much about different ships. I'm pulled towards Bangel, but not enough to get into an argument about it. Unless someone starts one with me by singling out my posts and being rude. Yeah, I really don't like that. I mean, c'mon now. I don't enjoy being unpleasant. I'm just a sweet little flower swaying in the wind. I don't want to tear you a new one, but I will. 😅 At least until a staff member appears in the thread. Then I dance away like a stoned ballerina. 😛
 
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Sure, have your views and stick by them, that's totally fine, I respect that. I want to understand how and why posters came to have those views if they choose to engage in discussion. Neither party has to change them, just explain them without an all or nothing mindset. Views that oppose or challenge the norm are interesting, more so is the story of why a fan holds that stance. Outright rigid thinking defeats the purpose of discussion. All out fan love is definitely needed in fandom as well, and that does not need to be challenged but it appears to me that some hold their views without actually thinking about why they do, (Captain America). Maybe I am odd in being able to both love and hate something at the same time? Or being able to thoroughly enjoy something despite its flaws (Supernatural).

Expression is a tough one because the way I [personally] express myself is just how I talk, some people do not like casual chatting tone and attack the words used rather than the opinion.

Could you give specific examples?

Healthy and unhealthy - who decides this and is anyone the epitome of health anyway?
Gay or straight - a character who does not define themselves by sexuality is bashed for not defining themselves by sexuality. (For example, the 100, some fans wanted special treatment for gay relationships, even though Clexa was the most significant relationship in the show. The fan hatred for Clarke for never discussing her sex life with other characters is ridiculous. What does it matter? I don't know how Eliza Taylor manages to keep her composure so well in the face of such rigid thinking, she is an Aussie too and possibly had the same experience as me - sexuality is no big deal, stop making it such a big deal.)
Religion vs atheism - the assumption that all religious characters practice the same religion, or that all religious characters are somehow less than other characters because of their beliefs or that there must always be a divide (BSG)
Network vs Network - some programs are out right rejected just because of what network they are on despite addressing identical content to interests.



There are some out there who make a habit of attacking the poster, not the post.

You are so right about that. There is one person who always seems to know when I take her off ignore and goes for the throat. I know not to ever unignore her again. That has only happened to me here, I haven't yet been on other forums enough for people to know my lifestyle vulnerabilities.

(Its 4 am here so I hope I have made sense haha, I think I lost my train of thought on this a few hours ago but @katmobile seems to get what I am on about.)
 
thetopher
thetopher
Okay. I understand a bit more now and agree. :)
Could you give specific examples? How bad is it with other fandoms?

I know that most people come on these boards to debate and discuss things so some conflict is to be expected. And I get that the black and white blinkered view is frustrating but how you express yourself is equally important, if not more.
I think other peoples views need to be respected even if we have completely different opinions of characters.
There are some out there who make a habit of attacking the poster, not the post.
Deep breath - attacks on the poster usually come from a refusal to even entertain an alternate point of view there's only so long you can bang your head against a brick wall before you just get fed up with the wall. You have to give quarter and compromise to receive it.
 
Unfortunately so do I think this is very noticeable not only in fandoms but also in real life.
Guess it's just easier to put things and people into clear compartments and either join or dismiss it instead of having the uncertainty of not really knowing which side you're on.

/SK
 
Unfortunately so do I think this is very noticeable not only in fandoms but also in real life.
Guess it's just easier to put things and people into clear compartments and either join or dismiss it instead of having the uncertainty of not really knowing which side you're on.

/SK
Agreed and it's very problematic IRL there's this whole toxic internet culture that leads to things like the Christchurch shooting - the Pewdiepipeline of radicalisation as someone dubbed it. Sadly there are a lot of Warrens out there.
 
That's with a reason why I stopped writing / or write rarely - because I get tired to fight all over again over the same subject.
And that isn't a thing I wanted to discuss all over again.

I registered here to write about "our" favorite series and to chat with friendly and nice people.

And not that "we" lacerate the favorite couple of each other.

I wanted to discuss the fandom and not figthing with heart and soul against each other favorite couple. Some times I also think the that the sound is also a bit harsh towards certain characters as well as favorite couples.

Of course, everyone has their favorites ships or their favorite character, but it would be really great if we could respond together to a common tone and not that people will not come back. How is a nice saying? What goes around, comes around.

After all, we all have only one thing in common - we love Btvs as well as Ats. And our common predilection led us here 🙂
 
Spike-the-attraction.png



*couldn't resist* 😀
 
I think being Black and White is inevitable within fandoms because characters and ships naturally oppose each other. And it’s not always a bad thing.
 
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