Boy was I wrong about S4

[TabulaRasa]

I am just going to come out and say it. I was WRONG!

I have seen Buffy through about 4.5 times. Now just getting through season 4 again I realize I was wrong about it. I thought it was the weak season, no, not at all. Seasons 1-3 to me are def more weak. Season 4 is really great, beyond great. Atom is a great baddie and there really isn't that much initiative to make me sick. Buffy is growing up and the gang hits new hights. More comedy too. Anyways, just wanted to share.

 

[Joamna]

I used to almost never watch season 4 episodes (except for a few exceptions) but lately when I have, it's been like Hey, this is actually good, hm. I still do hate all the Initiative parts and Adam, and still don't watch the episodes centered around that very often, but there's definitely much awesomeness in this season that it's easy to forget about because of all the Initiative-y episodes.

 

[Allycat]

I agree with you both. Season 4 is definitely underrated. I personally don't mind the Initiative or Adam that much, but I can see why other people wouldn't like the storyline. The thing just is that Season 4's strength is not the plot that revolves around the annual villain, but the emotional plot that revolves around the Scoobies all growing up and (maybe) a little apart, which I guess you could say is reflected in the fact that the final episode of the season is not the one in which they beat the baddie, but an episode that deals with the internal feelings and thoughts of the main characters.

 

[Wicked]

Atom is a great baddie and there really isn't that much initiative to make me sick.

Its Adam, not Atom .

 

[Panda]

i liked s4! it had some great eps when it wasn't revolving around the initiative. blah. hush still makes me pee my pants. crazy smiley men FREAK me out! and you can never go wrong with a couple of faith eps... her settling into her bad self and all.

 

[mogwaid]

I always use to HATE this season, imo i thought it was the worst. I think, overall the general initiative story line sucks, but there are standout episodes which dont have much to do with that story line, which are extremely hilarious. Quite a few of my all time favourite episodes are in this season, so im glad it went how it did.

 

[TabulaRasa]

Its Adam, not Atom .

Well I am not retarted, I know what it is. but I like Atom because he was made up of parts. So it makes more sense to me. If it bother you, then I am oh so sorry.

 

[Your Creamy Coolness]

I wonder if they borrowed the ADAM storyline from the original Dark Shadows. They did one too which I loved. I always wondered if Joss was a fan of the old Dark Shadows or if some of the writers were. 🙂

 

[TabulaRasa]

I wonder if they borrowed the ADAM storyline from the original Dark Shadows. They did one too which I loved. I always wondered if Joss was a fan of the old Dark Shadows or if some of the writers were. 🙂

I don't even know about the old dark shadows. Is it a comic?

 

[eponinethen]

I still do hate all the Initiative parts and Adam

See, that's my problem. Season 4 is great in so many ways. There are some greta new characters (Tara.. and Anya is kinda new), a few awesome episods (such as This Years Girl, Who Are You, Hush, Restless, etc..), but the Adam thing annoys me too much. I can watch the random great episodes, but I can't love the season as much as [some of] the others. Ashame really..

 

[Panda]

I don't even know about the old dark shadows. Is it a comic?

dark shadows is a really old show from the 60s.. i used to watch it every night before going to bed when i was little. screw sesame street.

from imdb:
Plot summary for
"Dark Shadows" (1966)
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Dark Shadows is a gothic soap opera, which follows the strange happenings to the Collins family and their surrounding friends. The show features everything from Vampires, to Witches, werewolves... you name it. Written by Nate Gardner {kzegersfan@sugar-river.net}

The story of Dark Shadows begins with newly hired governess Victoria Winters arriving at Collinwood, the Collins' estate in Collinsport, Maine in search of her mysterious origins. She soon is caught up in the strange events and mysteries that seem to surround the Collins family. Eventually, the Collins' "cousin from England", Barnabas Collins, arrives and takes the show in a new direction; his vampire curse introduces a new history of the Collins family. Part of this revised history is the popular character of the witch Angelique whose jealously led to the tragic death of Barnabas' great love Josette and who placed the curse upon Barnabas. Written by Anonymous

 

[TabulaRasa]

Wow, that actually sounds really good. I am going to see if I can find it anywhere. Thanks for posting that.

 

[Panda]

awesome!! it's totally a classic.

 

[Edmund Blackadder]

I like the Adam story and the Initiative. I feel that, although poorly executed in some respects and some dire casting, it was something that should have been further developed in later seasons as, especially the Initiative, makes sense in this Buffyverse.
Of course the American Govt(and others) would be aware of Demons and try to eradicate them. And furthermore, yes many a govt/military organization would try and capture these entities and make them their puppets.

Adam himself is actually an interesting creature to behold. After his escape and the innocence he has, its kinda really scary.

Old Master III agrees: Here's some more of your Karma back.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize you could only give positive Karma and that Negative Karma, though is a sign of disagreement with someones post, should not be used.
Brilliant!

Edit:

Spirit_Of_Fred agrees: i expected you to post something positive about the initiative and adam...i was sitting here and lying in wait 😉

A good idea is still a good idea even if its poorly done(which I would argue the Adam story wasn't).

 

[Your Creamy Coolness]

Wow, that actually sounds really good. I am going to see if I can find it anywhere. Thanks for posting that.

You have to keep in mind though, Dark Shadows was shot from 1966-1971 and was a daytime soap. Also it was shot LIVE, which means no mistakes were fixed. It has some great bloopers, and the FX's are chessy as can be, but if you will give it a chance, there are some amazing actors, and great story's over the 5 year history of the show. The show was also remade into a 13 episodic nightime show in 1991 for NBC. That is how I first got into DS, and then it was cancelled (even though the ratings were great, the main guy an NBC didn't like it) so therefore I started watching the old one and enjoyed it immensly. Just my two cents. The first year or show, it's kind of slow, but you can start with the Barnabas eps that is where the show pics up. The first year is more gothic, and everything is hinted at, until finally they crossover into the supernatural world.

 

[anyatara]

My friend says season four is the let down, he says it revolves around Willow/Tara and they only did that to get more male viewers. I totally disagree with him, IMO season four is the best season, I don't know why, but it appeals to me, over all the other seasons, I think it's because all the episodes are really really origanal, like Hush && Restless for instance.

 

[Hexaphim]

I watched Buffy for the first time over the last month or so (all seven seasons, it was an... interesting vacation), and I actually really loved season 4. I thought it was a big step up from the first three seasons, the scale got a lot bigger. I didn't mind the Initiative at all, and Adam... well he's a weird one, but at least he has a minigun..?

Season 4 also has my very favorite episode, Hush (guessing I'm not alone in this 🙂).

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

My friend says season four is the let down, he says it revolves around Willow/Tara and they only did that to get more male viewers. I totally disagree with him

If that was the intent, it backfired, because gay/lesbian viewers showed up in droves afterwards, while hormonal fanboys with a crush on Willow cried their eyes out... :lmao: If you really want to attract more males using a lesbian relationship, you need to play it like Penthouse, not like Buffy (and I say that being a straight male myself. No illusions here.)

Seriously, though: Piecing together things that have been said by Joss and others, it was planned from the start that either Willow or Xander would discover they were gay, he just hadn't decided which, so things were written in that could hint to either character. Then Seth Green left the show, which gave them the opportunity to give Willow a "college experiment" same-sex relationship which played out so well they decided to forget the "experiment" part. Buffyguide has a whole page of quotes from Joss and the cast, but I can't post the link here.

Personally, I liked Willow & Tara, as characters and as a couple. I thought Aly & Amber had tremendous chemistry together, and for the most part made W/T believable. Looking at them as a ratings gimmick is kinda missing the entire point.

 

[BuffBuff]

personally, s4 is my favorite season. people i know that have seen the show before have told me they thought it was one of it's weaker seasons, just above season 1. it's not like i could really change their minds or anything, but i just pointed out that season 4, in my opinion, really grasped the reality of a first year of college-- and i understand it very well, since i just finished my first year of college at the beginning of this summer. trying to keep your core friends together after high school, but ultimately splitting apart somewhat due to each of your needs of exploration and experiementation in the real world. it's very easy to relate to.

i still don't really like the initiative or adam as the big bad. i do feel he would have been better had they given more air time to him, or developed his character a little earlier on. but i do like how in the end, magic prevailed over science, and that it really has no business interfering in the mystical world of buffy & gang.