Bringing Back Giles

white avenger

white avenger

white avenger
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Just what, exactly, gave Angel the idea that Giles should be brought back? I find the idea inconceivable that he would not know Buffy's own experience in this area, therefore he most certainly knows that she would be adamantly opposed to any such action. Does he, for some reason, believe that Giles isn't in his own private version of heaven ("Cup o' tea, cup o' tea, almost get a shag, cup o' tea") but is, instead, in some sort of hell? Giles' death was a natural occurrence, the same as Tara's was, and therefore not something subject to mortal interference Bringing Giles back could actually result in the third apocalypse that Angel would have been directly involved in bringing about .

So, what is Angel's justification in courting with this kind of disaster? Does he actually believe that bringing Giles back can be in any way a good thing, and if so, why?
 
Dagenspear said:
There's nothing to say that Angel is aware of Buffy's heavenly experience.
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That is true. It has been the assumption of a lot of fans that that would have been one of the subjects that they would have discussed during their meeting at the first of the year, but it has never been confirmed, one way or the other. That could result in an even worse scenario once Buffy does find out, either before he attempts the actual resurrection, or afterwards, regardless of his success or failure.
 
white avenger said:
That is true. It has been the assumption of a lot of fans that that would have been one of the subjects that they would have discussed during their meeting at the first of the year, but it has never been confirmed, one way or the other. That could result in an even worse scenario once Buffy does find out, either before he attempts the actual resurrection, or afterwards, regardless of his success or failure.
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Joss (or someone at Darkhorse) said that would not be any major crossovers between "Buffy" and "Angel and Faith". So we will be waiting a very long for Buffy and Angel to finally talk about Giles...or their space-sex.

Anyways, I think the main reason Angel wants to bring back Giles is because he absorbed (or whatever the hell happened) some of Giles early in one of the early issues. We also saw later that Angel might actually be turning into Giles when Faith was asking him if he wanted tea. So, this might be Angel be possessed...again (as an Angel fan when are the writers going to think of something original. Twice was too many times already)
 
He's not thinking with his head. He's making decisions based on emotion. No amount of justifications from him is going to make us happy, as we clearly know its a bad idea. He's operating from a place of enormous guilt, regret and despair. He has caused tremendous grief to Buffy, and thinks that this will balance out what he has done.

Regardless, I like the storyline. That doesn't mean that I want him to succeed, I just find it really interesting. And the whole Giles/Angel intertwining thing. We have no idea what it means, but I almost squealed when Angel started acting like him.
 
Even though I have never read the comics, I sort of figured out that Giles has died and that Angel is trying to bring him back.
My first reaction was, "What? Why?"
Giles has served as a Watcher for long enough. He's killed enough people. He's lost enough people. I think that Giles has earned the right to be left at peace.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't miss him if I read the comics, just that I think that he should be left alone.
Hopefully, he's up in whatever Heaven Buffy went to, being kept company by Anya, Tara, Joyce, all of the other poor saps that have died in the Buffyverse, and Jenny.
Especially Jenny. 🙂
 
Valjavertjinn said:
Even though I have never read the comics, I sort of figured out that Giles has died and that Angel is trying to bring him back.
My first reaction was, "What? Why?"
Giles has served as a Watcher for long enough. He's killed enough people. He's lost enough people. I think that Giles has earned the right to be left at peace.
I'm not saying that I wouldn't miss him if I read the comics, just that I think that he should be left alone.
Hopefully, he's up in whatever Heaven Buffy went to, being kept company by Anya, Tara, Joyce, all of the other poor saps that have died in the Buffyverse, and Jenny.
Especially Jenny. 🙂
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Even without the storyline of Angel trying to resurrect Giles, the Giles flashbacks are incredibly great. I can totally see their part in either or both comics. Read them if you get a chance.
 
This is another reason why I'm grateful I don't bother about the comics and (therefore) don't /can't consider them canon. To me Buffy ended at season seven and Giles is very much alive. Therefore I don't have to wonder about stuff like; why should Giles be brought back, why should Angel want to do this and is, and this a good or bad thing? 😛
 
white avenger said:
So, what is Angel's justification in courting with this kind of disaster? Does he actually believe that bringing Giles back can be in any way a good thing, and if so, why?
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Because Angel is really good at making really bad decisions? Because he wants to get on Buffy's good side again?

It's a monumentally terrible idea, agreed. Who knows what could happen. Zombie Giles. Chronically depressed Giles. Which is worse?

---------- Post added at 08:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 PM ----------

Dagenspear said:
There's nothing to say that Angel is aware of Buffy's heavenly experience.
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Okay, sure, Angel might not have known about Buffy's stint in Heaven or the time Dawn tried to bring Joyce back from the dead and how badly that went, but Angel's no moron. He knows about magic and spells. It's got to be common knowledge that Resurrection Spells often go wrong.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer said:
Okay, sure, Angel might not have known about Buffy's stint in Heaven or the time Dawn tried to bring Joyce back from the dead and how badly that went, but Angel's no moron. He knows about magic and spells. It's got to be common knowledge that Resurrection Spells often go wrong.
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I'm sure he does. My argument was just regarding the heaven thing though.
 
VisionGirl said:
Do you think they should resurrect him even if he's in "heaven" and at peace (like Buffy in season 6)?
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Awwww thinking about it like that makes it so much more complicated. 😀 Hmmm...I suppose they shouldn't, but I'll always wish he hadn't died in the first place.
 
Spikefan31 said:
Awwww thinking about it like that makes it so much more complicated. 😀 Hmmm...I suppose they shouldn't, but I'll always wish he hadn't died in the first place.
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And that is precisely the point. I'm sure that we all wish that he hadn't died in the first place. But he did die, and just like Spike's song from OMWF, they should now let him rest in peace.

Angel may not have a clue about Buffy's time in heaven. Clueless seems to be an adjective that could be used indiscriminately for just about every character in both series at one time or another. But, whether he knew about it or not, what he should know in the danger of resurrecting a body without first being sure that there is a surefire method of rejoining the body with its soul. Otherwise, you have a (relatively harmless) zombie at best, and a truly diabolical monster at worst, a monster with all of the intellect of the living man without his conscience, regrets, moral restraints, or inhibitions. "We'll resurrect the body first. Then we'll worry about the soul," is nothing short of courting disaster of untold magnitude.
 
VisionGirl
VisionGirl
Mm-hmm
If any heaven or hell experience is driving Angel, I would say it's his own. Angel really WAS trapped in a hell dimension, so if he thinks Giles could be trapped somewhere remotely close to that his guilt would be even more compounded. It would make sense that if that was his thought process he would try to resurrect him instead. He wants to "right" a little bit of the wrong he has done, as he's done since he was brought back. Since Twilight had such a big factor in his death, Angel might be thinking Giles is not in heaven as he should be. Much as the Scoobies mistakenly believed Buffy was trapped in a hell dimension and brought her back. But his motive isn't "Bring back Giles so Buffy will like me again. Yeah, do that." by any means. He wants to do something - anything - to make some small amends. No matter how ill-conceived, he has to try.
 
About Buffy's time in heaven. I'm one of those rare fans who believes that Buffy has spent those 147 days in the "Normal Again"-verse, heavy on antidepressants that made fel feel "happy, warm... loved... finished".

In the episode, doctor says: "Last summer, when you had a momentary awakening, it was them that pulled you back in".

So in my mind, Buffy was in hell(-ish) dimension, after all. Back in our world, she went through severe abstinence syndrom after being put off the antidepressants, but eventually she was okay.

About Angel's decision to resurrect Giles. Of course, he's still playing God, even after the Twilight fiasco. But the moment he stops doing it, the scope of his personality will be radically reduced and he'll turn into regular private detective, albeit with sun allergy. So as long as Joss writes him, Angel is bound to make larger than life decisions that result in larger than life failures.

I'm sure that the attempts to bring back Giles will cost Angel dearly, and I feel for him in advance.
 
Moscow Watcher said:
About Buffy's time in heaven. I'm one of those rare fans who believes that Buffy has spent those 147 days in the "Normal Again"-verse, heavy on antidepressants that made fel feel "happy, warm... loved... finished".

In the episode, doctor says: "Last summer, when you had a momentary awakening, it was them that pulled you back in".

So in my mind, Buffy was in hell(-ish) dimension, after all. Back in our world, she went through severe abstinence syndrom after being put off the antidepressants, but eventually she was okay.
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Then it wasn't a hell dimension, it was an alternate reality.
 
Dagenspear said:
Then it wasn't a hell dimension, it was an alternate reality.
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Kind of hell(-ish) alternate reality.

I don't insist that I'm right (Jossverse mythology is so loose that many plot twists will always stay open to interpretation) but if that's the case, then Scoobies were right to bring Buffy back.

And, returning to the topic of the thread, Angel could be right about bringing Giles back, too. Strictly theoretically. Joss is an atheist, he doesn't believe in heaven or hell in the theological sense of the word. He uses them only for plotty reasons.

We'll see. On one hand, I love Giles and I want him back. On the other hand, I understand that bringing characters back cheapens deaths and sacrifices. The only way to diminish or avoid cheapening is to create terrible, gigantic consequences.
 
What happens to souls with the seed gone?

Just a thought on Giles, I just re-read season 8 -39 to look at Giles death again. When Angel snaps his neck Buffy hits Angel and immediately destroys the seed. Even though you break someones neck it still takes a minute for the lights to go completely out. My thought is if Demons can't enter the world now that the seed is gone can souls leave? If not would any death be considered natural if the souls are still trapped here?

Your thoughts?
 
[MENTION=9748]bear999com[/MENTION] - I think Joss would easily rewrite or bend any self-imposed rule if it stands in the way of an interesting story. So, if Joss wants to resurrect Giles, he can follow that route you offer.
 
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