(BtVS) The WORST.

[caritas08]

I am at the point in my season 2 re-watch that I have to watch Ted and then Bad Eggs.

I don't remember really enjoying either of these episodes. And I'm procrastinating right now. I'm making this reply so that I can hold off on pushing play . . . So sad.

Usually I just do housework during the episodes I don't really want to rewatch. There's usually some scene or character exchange that I end up enjoying that I had forgotten about, but I definitely watch my favorite episodes more comprehensively than others.

 

[KellGreen]

No, sorry. Wish I did, I would love to read it again, because there are some wonderful insights in there. But you should look for an essay, any essay on the episode, I'm sure there are other essays on it out there. Maybe I'll look for it too. Although it was years ago, but some stuff got stuck in my head till today.

oooh i think i found it! i did a google search "buffy essay dead things" and found it on "Monash" (it, so far, seems to be the one you mentioned)... off to read the rest now.

 

[Icarium]

Buffy gets hurt by a regular vampire and completely falls apart because of it, that's weak, so she wants Spike to tell her why slayers die, what is he supposed to say to that? they faught, he obviously got lucky and won, just like that vampire got lucky with Buffy, she should've been able figure that out herself.

I agree. It's beyond ridiculous that Buffy asks Spike for an advice in that situation. First, he has no reason whatsoever to tell her the truth. Evil, remember? Second, unless Buffy is braindead, the conclusion that her problem is she needs to win every time while the vamps only need to get lucky once and finish her off is painfully obvious. Third, Spike can't really tell her anything since he didn't really know the Slayers he defeated either, so he came up with some adolescent fantasy about them losing the will to live, something he possibly have known about and was pretty much contradicted by the flashbacks anyway.

If Buffy couldn't figure out something so obvious on her own, she could have called the Council and spoken with Watchers who have lost Slayers, there are bound to be plenty of them if most Slayers die before they reach twenty.

I wish I knew where I read the essay about this episode. It's not all about the sex, but the sex scenes are also deep if you get what they're trying to tell you there. For example, the fact that they had sex under the carpet actually said sweeping their relationship or whatever under the carpet, by Buffy, like it doesn't exist, get rid of the problem. Or the Bronze sex scene, when Buffy and Spike have sex in the shadows, watching the light (her friends), the world she doesn't belong to, according to Spike. It's all very metaphorical. And those are just 2 examples I know I read. So see, even the sex scenes have a deep meaning. However, this episode is NOT all about the sex, you can't make it sound like it over takes the episode. It's a device to say all those things. And there are many of those in this episode. I just wish I could find that essay, I'm sure you'll like it, even though you don't like Spike

I am sure there are also many essays claiming that Twilight, Transformers or any shitty reality show are profound too. Doesn't make it true, does it? If one looks really hard, they can find "symbolism" and deep meaning in any load of crap. I have read quite a few essays trying to "prove" how awesome S6-7 are and they always make me wonder A) if we watched the same show, B) who are these people kidding and C) just what would Joss have to do for some people to accept that the Emperor has no clothes.

 

[xfivebyfive]

I Only Have Eyes For You. I can't stand this episode. I watch it and think about how this got David his own spinoff and I question Joss' sanity. I mean really? David is godawful in this episode. WORST acting ever. Sarah's worst crying ever too. I hate rewatching this episode. I can't stand it.

 

[patriot1123]

I understand why people don't like the plot of Ted, but John Ritter is so brilliant that he carries the episode for me.

 

[wickedtiger86]

I understand why people don't like the plot of Ted, but John Ritter is so brilliant that he carries the episode for me.

He is excellent in it. I just rewatched like about a half an hour ago and the plot isn't really bad.

I just discovered that the reason this episode bothers me so much is because it's like a chapter of my life. Except that my mom was with a dude eerily like Ted for like two years . . .

---------- Post added at 02:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 PM ----------

zobothehobo agrees: My mom married a guy like Ted. And I can't stand this episode for that reason

That's horrible! Why do these people exist!? *shudders!

 

[caritas08]

I am sure there are also many essays claiming that Twilight, Transformers or any shitty reality show are profound too. Doesn't make it true, does it? If one looks really hard, they can find "symbolism" and deep meaning in any load of crap. I have read quite a few essays trying to "prove" how awesome S6-7 are and they always make me wonder A) if we watched the same show, B) who are these people kidding and C) just what would Joss have to do for some people to accept that the Emperor has no clothes.

Although I'm more than willing to read the essay (if anyone has a link to it) I completely agree with this. Just becuase something is shocking, gruesome and extreme does not make it deep or well written.

Many people claim Clockwork Orange is a brilliant movie, and I fail to see the genius in it. The same goes for the Passion of the Christ. I think some writers don't know how to create compelling drama without the "shock" factor. I'm not opposed to violence, sex or adult themes at all if they are well executed.

There are many aspects of Season 6 that I love and I enjoy watching the season. I think the majority of it portrays depression really well and explores some issues and emotions that many shows would have been to scared to tackle.

However, there are many aspects to it that were horrifically written and failed miserably (i.e. Willow's magic drug addiction, the "AR" scene etc.) I think Marti Noxen really has some abnormal, disturbing views of sexuality and self loathing that I think many Buffy fans would have been grateful for her to keep to herself. (It is sad to me that some of the most degrading, antifeminist moments of the show that subvert the show's entire message came from a female writer). Thank God for Jane Espenson.

 

[Icarium]

However, there are many aspects to it that were horrifically written and failed miserably (i.e. Willow's magic drug addiction, the "AR" scene etc.) I think Marti Noxen really has some abnormal, disturbing views of sexuality and self loathing that I think many Buffy fans would have been grateful for her to keep to herself. (It is sad to me that some of the most degrading, antifeminist moments of the show that subvert the show's entire message came from a female writer). Thank God for Jane Espenson.

Jane Espenson, who is apparently much more of a Spuffy shipper than Noxon? How is that feminist again? "Stalking is real love" isn't my idea of feminist message. At least Noxon doesn't completely romanticise the "wrong" relationships that she writes, which is more than I can say for Whedon and Espenson...

 

[caritas08]

Jane Espenson, who is apparently much more of a Spuffy shipper than Noxon? How is that feminist again? "Stalking is real love" isn't my idea of feminist message. At least Noxon doesn't completely romanticise the "wrong" relationships that she writes, which is more than I can say for Whedon and Espenson...

Well I don't really see Spuffy itself as antifeminist so that's another discussion.

Noxen has written some great episodes but I think she deserves a lot of the blame she gets (as well as a lot of the credit) for the good and the bad of Season 6 since she was the showrunner that year. I was crediting Jane Espenson more for her particular episodes (not one of which I dislike). I don't really know how much control or overall input Espenson had, though I think most people would agree Noxen had a lot of control, and while I like a lot of her episodes, am personally grateful she was not involved with Angel, Firefly or Dollhouse.

 

[Icarium]

Noxen has written some great episodes but I think she deserves a lot of the blame she gets (as well as a lot of the credit) for the good and the bad of Season 6 since she was the showrunner that year.

She does deserves to be blamed (as far as I am concerned her S6 episodes are just as unwatchable as those of the other writers) but I hate it when she is blamed for everything bad that happened in S6. The one to blame is Joss as it was still his show and at any time he could have stopped Marti's (or anybody else's) ideas from becoming canon. Whedon himself isn't exactly averse to rape-undertones as we see with say Willow and Tara in OMWF or with Faith and Riley in Who Are You.

 

[caritas08]

She does deserves to be blamed (as far as I am concerned her S6 episodes are just as unwatchable as those of the other writers) but I hate it when she is blamed for everything bad that happened in S6. The one to blame is Joss as it was still his show and at any time he could have stopped Marti's (or anybody else's) ideas from becoming canon. Whedon himself isn't exactly averse to rape-undertones as we see with say Willow and Tara in OMWF or with Faith and Riley in Who Are You.

I'll grant you that. I guess it just seems like Marti was basically "in charge" while Joss was away working on Firefly so people blame her more.

I feel like Joss put all his energy in Firefly and ignored Buffy that year (with the exception of Once More With Feeling). He seemed to do the same with Angel (left other showrunners in charge and went AWOL a lot). Not to let him off the hook, I'm just saying I blame the writing problems on Season 6 and 7 on Joss's negligence (meanwhile he was giving me Firefly which I love so at least he didn't sacrifice the last two seasons of Buffy in vain) but I blame Noxen for proactive destruction due to her incompetence as a writer.


The difference is I think that Buffy would have lost millions of viewers had Marti been in charge for more than a season. The Angel showrunners handled their charge much more capably (most of the time).

 

[Icarium]

The S8 comics don't have Noxon participating and suffer from much the same problems as S6-7. Seems to me the root of the problem wasn't really her then. Magic crack and Dark Willow were terrible ideas and would have sucked even if David Greenwalt was a showrunner, I suspect, so it's not just the execution of the details, it was the overall direction of the show, for which we should hold Joss responsible as pretty much all of S6 developments are started or hinted to in OMWF and it's unlikely Noxon made major changes without his agreement.

 

[nightshade]

Marti Noxon also wrote season 3's Consequences, with Faith and Xander

 

[Abby27]

[MENTION=10352]Chosen Enemy[/MENTION] What about Go Fish shoes feminism to you? curious! =P

Also, I think Fool For Love is a great episode. The fact that Spike is so ready, to kill Buffy, but then sees her crying, cocks his head, sits with her, and they sigh. Such a good moment!

 

[OhWow]

Has anyone even mentioned The Puppet Show yet?! That was so lame...

Except for the ending: Snyder- "I don't get it." LOL

 

[Tome]

Has anyone even mentioned The Puppet Show yet?! That was so lame...

Except for the ending: Snyder- "I don't get it." LOL

No way!! I love that episode! It's hilarious, and Sid is great. Too bad he was never part of the Scooby Gang... 🙁 Angel would have had competition for Buffy in s1 and s2. 😛

 

[kittenpoker]

with the puppet show, as with doublemeat palace, it's the twist on the classic horror story that makes it so good (I think). But yeah, snyder's comment at the end is great!

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So, not the worst by any means, but the scariest (I think) episode is Normal Again...

the whole maybe this is all just in your head thing totally freaks me out.

 

[HalloweenRain]

For me it's a three-way tie between: The I in Team, Pangs, and The Dark Age. I usually just skip em when I re-watch.

 

[Chosen Enemy]

[MENTION=10352]Chosen Enemy[/MENTION] What about Go Fish shoes feminism to you? curious! =P

I think this is why I like Go Fish, because of the feminism in it, not the big fish monster guys. The fact that the girl saves the guy, walks him home, and guards him.

 

[charmedones193]

I really hate Restless., I don't think that episode was needed and I think they should have ended season 4 with Primeval.