Gum Gnome33
"Well, yeah..."
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2011
- Messages
- 1,148
I think this is a great conversation so far.
Just wanted to throw one more thing out there, which is that there are 2 separate issues here to consider. One is the status of Buffy's mental state throughout season 6; I agree with those who point out that she is certainly circumstantially depressed though not unable to give consent--that indeed her willingness to seek comfort in Spike in this season is in itself a coping mechanism.
The other point that we have not yet acknowledged is how Spike perceives Buffy's mental state. As has been mentioned, he does have a more evolved grasp on human morality at this point. But that doesn't mean he understands or can recognize severe depression. He is a demon, living in the darkness and set to embrace death quite literally for an eternity. I think his take on life is summed up quite well in OMWF:
"Life's not a song. Life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." In other words: one can't have expectations, hope, light. Just live. This sentiment is I think very much in line with the kind of thinking that is experienced among the depressed. Not all, but certainly some.
For soulless Spike, relationships with others, (from his pov a sort of constant source of affirmation for one who is insecure), sex, and violence are the things that make his existence worth experiencing. These things, when he goes about them, are hollow and unhealthy. But they are, for him, the best it gets. There is no hope for any other sort of gratification that comes from a healthy outlook, hope, or true requited and functional love. The rest of life, or "unlife," is just "living."
So while Spike may be aware that a person close to him is exhibiting characteristics that we classify as "severe depression," I imagine that to him there is really nothing alarming about that sort of behavior, at all.
This is not, of course, an attempt to excuse his behavior, (or Buffy's for that matter.) But when considering the way in which Spike treated her throughout this season with respect to her mental state (excluding Seeing Red because that's another topic altogether), we must take into account his perception of it to determine whether he was taking advantage or merely bonding with another hopeless soul.
Just wanted to throw one more thing out there, which is that there are 2 separate issues here to consider. One is the status of Buffy's mental state throughout season 6; I agree with those who point out that she is certainly circumstantially depressed though not unable to give consent--that indeed her willingness to seek comfort in Spike in this season is in itself a coping mechanism.
The other point that we have not yet acknowledged is how Spike perceives Buffy's mental state. As has been mentioned, he does have a more evolved grasp on human morality at this point. But that doesn't mean he understands or can recognize severe depression. He is a demon, living in the darkness and set to embrace death quite literally for an eternity. I think his take on life is summed up quite well in OMWF:
"Life's not a song. Life isn't bliss, life is just this: it's living." In other words: one can't have expectations, hope, light. Just live. This sentiment is I think very much in line with the kind of thinking that is experienced among the depressed. Not all, but certainly some.
For soulless Spike, relationships with others, (from his pov a sort of constant source of affirmation for one who is insecure), sex, and violence are the things that make his existence worth experiencing. These things, when he goes about them, are hollow and unhealthy. But they are, for him, the best it gets. There is no hope for any other sort of gratification that comes from a healthy outlook, hope, or true requited and functional love. The rest of life, or "unlife," is just "living."
So while Spike may be aware that a person close to him is exhibiting characteristics that we classify as "severe depression," I imagine that to him there is really nothing alarming about that sort of behavior, at all.
This is not, of course, an attempt to excuse his behavior, (or Buffy's for that matter.) But when considering the way in which Spike treated her throughout this season with respect to her mental state (excluding Seeing Red because that's another topic altogether), we must take into account his perception of it to determine whether he was taking advantage or merely bonding with another hopeless soul.
