Buffy And Faith, Now, Really,,,

white avenger

white avenger
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(In order to give the Spuffy/Jandy group a little rest time...)

Not just a Fuffy shipper's question here. Really, now, do you really think that Faith had any romantic feelings for Buffy, or Buffy for her? I've heard the argument several times that the Chosen Two could either be enemies or lovers, but nothing in between, so, what's your opinion?
 
I think that Faith knew she had more than friendly feelings towards Buffy. I don't think she had romantic feelings in the sense of wanting picnics in the park and long walks on the beach. Although maybe. I think from Buffy's side, she's not sure what her feelings are for Faith. Is she a friend, an ally or an enemy? She just knows that whatever she feels for her, it's complicated.
 
There was definitely romantic feelings from Faith's side.
(For Faith, sex=romance).

Considering that Faith managed to get under Buffy's skin a lot of the time, Buffy also felt something towards Faith...
 
I've heard the argument several times that the Chosen Two could either be enemies or lovers, but nothing in between, so, what's your opinion?
I don't buy that for one second. Sure, the premise is nice but it's just too simplified. Just one or the other. When we talk about having feelings for someone we often take it as romantic or possibly sexual feelings. There are other feelings after all. If anyone of the two has romantic/sexual feelings for someone it's Faith. But I see it more as her common behavior, she's flirty to people not just Buffy. Yes, there's tension between the two but that doesn't mean they had romantic feelings.

Do I mind Fuffy? Not at all. It's a great fantasy.
 
I think they were both predominatly hetrosexual. But slayers have a demon in them and that demon seems to make vampires bisexual so maybe slayers are therefore at least open to thinking about experimentation? After all Buffy and Satsu did hook up even though Buffy didn't love her romantically, more like a friend. There was definitely a lot of tension between the two of them, what ever that means.
 
100% believe Faith had caught the feels for Buffy. I mean, all the signs are there! She wants to set straight any guy that messes with Buffy (see Homecoming and Amends), all her time is spent with Buffy, there's some clear cut sexual tension there, many innuendos are made. Faith was definitely into Buffy. The kiss that they were suppose to share just confirms that.

On Buffy's side it's a bit more complicated. I think Buffy felt a deep connection with Faith because of the slayer thing. There were definitely feelings involved, or else the story doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense for Buffy to have such a grudge with Faith after all the stuff that happened, when she forgave other people (for worse too), heck, she even went back to dating some of those people. But with Faith, for some reason Buffy can't seem to get past the past. Even knowing that Faith is on the right path now, and has been for years. I think too much of what happened between Faith and Buffy was personal making the betrayal that much worst. I wouldn't say Buffy was in love with Faith, or that there even was romantic feelings on Buffy's side, but Buffy certainly had very strong feelings for Faith. And come on, Buffy's not blind, she must have known that Faith was flirting with her (see Bad Girls), and what did she do, she went along for the ride.
 
ChaseRules
ChaseRules
Buffy had deep feelings for Faith . That why she couldn't forgive her unlike other people .
But slayers have a demon in them and that demon seems to make vampires bisexual so maybe slayers are therefore at least open to thinking about experimentation?
Lol what? Vampires are bisexual by nature. Which isn't due to the demon and more due to the lack of a conscience. The demon after all has no personality (comics retcons aside).

Buffy and Faith are a complicated mess and I like it. Going to form a more coherent response when it's not so early in the morning.
 
I think they were both predominatly hetrosexual. But slayers have a demon in them and that demon seems to make vampires bisexual so maybe slayers are therefore at least open to thinking about experimentation? After all Buffy and Satsu did hook up even though Buffy didn't love her romantically, more like a friend. There was definitely a lot of tension between the two of them, what ever that means.

That makes me think, isn't it kind of offensive that vampires are always portrayed as sexually fluid AND evil. Like dam, those evil vampires, they are clearly sexually devious, better make them bisexual! Not a fan of the idea that the only reason vamps are bisexual is because of the demon in them.

But as for Buffy and Faith, I don't think the slayer thing had anything to do with their sexuality. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't actually thing Buffy ever said that she was completely straight, or gay for that matter. To me sleeping with Satsu didn't come out of left field like some people think, because I saw it with Faith prior to that. But even then, we were shown many straight slayers, and at least 2 gay slayers which identify as lesbians, not bisexual. In the case of Kennedy she said she knew when she was what, 4? I think being a slayer doesn't change someone's sexuality.
 
For me the biggest piece of evidence is the kiss they were supposed to share in 'Enemies.' That pretty much confirms their relationship was written as such. The feelings were definitely stronger from Faith's side; had Angel not been around they would probably have been just as strong from Buffy too -- however, since Buffy always had a boyfriend thing going on whenever Faith showed up, those feelings could not be reciprocated or even fully understood.

I don't think Buffy or Faith were bisexual either -- the whole Satsu thing was just exploration (repressed feelings from when Faith was around, perhaps) while for Faith it was more of a "if it's you, it's OK" type scenario.
 
. And come on, Buffy's not blind, she must have known that Faith was flirting with her (see Bad Girls), and what did she do, she went along for the ride.
Buffy's not blind. She acknowledges to Spike in s7 that Faith gives off mixed signals. Buffy knows that Faith has a girl crush on her. That could be something that Buffy just doesn't know how to deal with because of her history with Faith. I don't know if she knows in s3. But the fact that Faith is always trying to hook up with Buffy's guys might have another meaning that Buffy might pick up on. Maybe that's why she was upset with Riley for sleeping with Faith. She's really upset that Faith got to have sex with her boyfriend, and it was in her body. Buffy definitely had some complicated feelings towards Faith.
 
I think S3 pre-'Bad Girls'. Faith is obviously attracted to Buffy; she doesn't really rate any guys, talks about sex all the time with Buffy, wants Buffy not to rate guys either, asks her on a friggin date twice.
On one level it screams 'please be my best friend even though I'm trying hard to be cool about it!' and on the other its clear unconscious seduction that I was very familiar with growing up and realising that was a bit too into a few of my girly-friends (and not really knowing what to do about it).
This could be simple prejection on my part except that's what ED and the writers said they were shooting for the subtext-y seduction.

To me Season 3 doesn't make sense unless there is that doomed, unrequited love thing going on from Faith's side.

But it is doomed.
Momentary attraction aside S3 Buffy is in no way gay or bi-curious or anything enough. There is Angel or 'bland high school boy' and nothing else.
I mean, Buffy is almost completely oblivious to Willow/Tara which strongly indicates that she doesn't have a clue about 'that stuff' at all herself or even the possibility of girl/girl lovin'. She's very straight; apart from the vampire thing not a lot else going on there.
That's just my opionion, I get why people ship them because chemistry/destiny blah-stuff, but for me they don't work.

Not afterwards either because well, Buffy will just not forgive Faith. S8 made that clear that Buffy holds Faith to some other standand than anyone else who ever wronged her.
And hey, that's entirely cool, nobody is required to forgive anybody ever and its not like Faith is actively seeking to score karma points or anything with Buffy personally, she's just going on with her life doing the best she can at atoning.
Part of atoning is that you don't get pats on the head or pep talks or cookies for what you've been should've be doing all along anyway. You f-ed up yo, deal with it.

Still, it would be nice if people we're supposed to think of as heroes did nice things for each other because those others are making the effort.

Post- S8 Faith should stay the hell away from Buffy for her own safety/peace of mind. I don't know if she does. Isn't she in another comic?

As for the whole Buffy/Satsu thing I hated it but it was completely in character; Buffy using somebody else to make hersel feel better. again. It's what she's done ever since breaking up with Angel. Riley was convienient, using Spike physically as a sex-toy, then using Spike emotionally as an emotional crutch later. Then moving on when her vampire exes are in LA.
Same with Satsu, its just that Satsu realises it very quickly and gets far away from Buffy. Bravo girl, bravo, keep sanity/dignity intact. 🙂
 
It's just the next logical step really.

In the comics Faith has now been free and single for years while Buffy has simply bounced back between her two vampire exes with no resolution in sight. So the writers have a choice; either its Angel's 'turn' now after Spike and her end (IF they do end.. and yay for Buffy's agency!) or something new should happen with Buffy's love life.

But why should that 'something new' be Faith?
1) Introducing new characters in the Buffy comics has had very mixed results, your're just not going to have time to introduce a new character. who can also be a love interest, who's also going to be that interesting to a large section of the fandom.
The only new Scoobie romance that has worked so far long-term has been Xander/Dawn- both characters introduced back on the show. So imo the 'new' someone has to be someone from the show. Just for the sake of investment by the fandom.

2) and more importantly, they have a complicated history that can be mined for interesting drama and dynamics. Creating new stories equals better than recycling old stories.

3) Finally Buffy still seems to feel 'alone' a lot of the time, still searching for happiness and that somebody to make her feel whole. This has actually been a trend of hers that's been growing ever since her first death end the end of Season 1 but that realy hit home after the slayer spell at the end of S4. Even when surrounded by family, freinds, a thousand 'just like her' slayers, she can still feel totally isolated.
I think that's because Buffy 'came back', which no slayer has done before, and contiuened on being alive and kicking ass, so a apart of her went into Kendra and then quickly passed on into Faith, and there is has stayed. That's why they are forever linked; by dreams, by calling, whatever.
Faith still has that missing part of Buffy.

It's also worth noting that they've been separated in the comics for large amounts of time and distance, not really coming together much.
When Buffy says to Xander in early S8 that she feels alone, unconnected to all the other slayers, Faith is thousands of miles away, conspicuous by her absence.
LaterBuffy and Faith clash in battle, and then a issue or so afterwards Buffy is trying to 'connect' with Satsu (because she knows how Satsu feels about her thanks to 'the kiss'). The timing of that is somewhat interesting I have to say.
Then Faith is off with Giles for months, away from the main plot happenings, but when they reunite on the run from their amassing enemies it Faith who comforts Buffy in the midst of chaos in Tibet...and is promptly abducted by Twilight before any upcoming final confrontation. What was he so concerned about?
Then during the world-ending apocalypse Faith leads the charge, scythe in hand, without any hesitation. Like the end of S7 all over again. If Bufyf is unavailable Faith willls tep into the breach, no questions asked.
In the devestating aftermath Faith is sympathetic to Buffy not only about Giles' will but also about taking Angel off her hands. An easing of some of that immense guilt I'm sure.
So the writers could have been laying the groundwork for some sort of reconciliation in the near future.

Buffy needs to do what Willow and Xander are allowed to do, move on from past lovers without looking back. Willow has moved beyond Tara and Xander is now also with someone new. Angel, Riley and now Spike have had their time, plenty of chances and now something fresh needs to occur.
Finally a note on what each love interest imo has meant to Buffy.

Angel made Buffy feel special. After 100 years she was his salvation. That's some powerful romance right there for a teenage girl, no wonder she thought it was meant to be and didn't consider the future. But it was a first love that cannot grow because of the whole vampire/curse thing. They both must move on.

Riley made Buffy feel normal; the sensitive-yet studly boyfriend who could picnic with her and play beach football, who could also patrol with her at night with his super-special army training. He should've been the perfect match but he couldn't 'connect' to her properly. So Riley was left behind.

Spike made Buffy feel loved. He was the demon/guy who never stopped loving her even after he went through momentous changes in his own life. He was there for her at times when no-one else was (not always in the best way but still), and yet their connection was fleeting at best and bourne of trying/difficult circumstance.

So if/when it finally happens Faith will make Buffy feel, possibly for the first time ever, complete. She will that missing part that finally returns to her.

End ramble. 🙂
 
Blaze
Blaze
That's the most beautiful post I've ever read
Iwearthecheese
Iwearthecheese
I'm not a Fuffy but that last part...just wow, kinda special.
Samuel Reyes
Samuel Reyes
I teared up a little at the end there
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
That's great
ChaseRules
ChaseRules
I was going to say something here but you did it so well I don't know what else I can say . Fluffy forever :)
That makes me think, isn't it kind of offensive that vampires are always portrayed as sexually fluid AND evil. Like dam, those evil vampires, they are clearly sexually devious, better make them bisexual! Not a fan of the idea that the only reason vamps are bisexual is because of the demon in them.
I don't think it is that they are sexually fluid AND evil. I think it that they don't care about societies rules and therefore do what they want and don't think they have to conform.
 
Blaze
Blaze
But that would make them bi prior to turning? or maybe they just don't have a sexuality. hihi won't go into it cause I will get off topic, but it's something to think about!
I don't see feelings between them either. I think Faith said certain things to make Buffy feel uncomfortable sometimes because as far as she was concerned Buffy was 'wound too tight' and 'needed to find the fun.' She saw Buffy as conventional and boring and thought anything other than that made her awkward and uncomfortable. I think she succeeded too. Look at Buffy's awkward reaction when she found out about willow and Tara. Faith (in Buffy's body at the time) was much cooler about it and non-plussed.
 
If Buffy and Faith were to end up together then Buffy would have to be canonically bisexual -- the whole Satsu thing was (as IWeartheCheese pointed out) Buffy using someone else as an emotional crutch. I understand that it's not about gender, it's about how two people can connect and find each other, but a full-fledged relationship/romance between Buffy and Faith would mean Buffy is not straight. Are the writers willing to do that? I mean, seeing as how Buffy already had a fling with another Slayer the writers could just say she was bi all along -- however, the word bisexual doesn't seem to exist in the Buffyverse ('you went through gay to get to me', Xander in S8).
 
Blaze
Blaze
didn't you know, bisexuals are literally the unicorns of sexual orientations!
I feel like Buffy and Faith are building to something with Faith going through this sort of virgin state right now, she's hasn't been with anybody for ages. So who or what else is Faith waiting for? Men just don't seem to capture her heart,so why not Buffy?
 
If Buffy and Faith were to end up together then Buffy would have to be canonically bisexual -- the whole Satsu thing was (as IWeartheCheese pointed out) Buffy using someone else as an emotional crutch. I understand that it's not about gender, it's about how two people can connect and find each other, but a full-fledged relationship/romance between Buffy and Faith would mean Buffy is not straight. Are the writers willing to do that? I mean, seeing as how Buffy already had a fling with another Slayer the writers could just say she was bi all along -- however, the word bisexual doesn't seem to exist in the Buffyverse ('you went through gay to get to me', Xander in S8).
that what be one hell of a retcon? lol
 
I absolutely think Faith had feelings for Buffy. I mean in her speech to Joyce in This Year's Girl she says "She was over us a long time ago, Joyce. Too busy climbing onto her new boy toy to give a single thought to the people that matter!" Sounds like a resentful queer girl to me😉. How much she realized it I don't know. But all the signs are there. On Buffy's part, I think she has strong feelings for her, but not really in a sexual or romantic way, so ultimately I don't think a relationship between them would work at all. Which is all the better, cus I love unrequited love tropes🙄.
 
Blaze
Blaze
I can see how some people don't see Buffy as having feelings, but with Faith, I have a hard time seeing anyone argue otherwise :P
Iwearthecheese
Iwearthecheese
'resentful queer girl' Ha! Yeppers.
that what be one hell of a retcon? lol

Not really? I mean Buffy already slept with Satsu, already showed at least some signs of not being completely repulsed by Faith. It's not that rare for older women to explore their sexuality. Especially assuming Buffy grew up in the 80/90s where sexuality wasn't as widely talked about/more restricted (even for Willow, who would likely be seen as bisexual by today's standards).
 
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