Buffy and Guns

[white avenger]

(This has been brought up before, I'm sure, but for all you newbies out there...)

Forget the fact that ordinary bullets don't seem to work against vampires. Should the new army of Slayers begin using modern weapons?

 

[Kean]

Honestly I'm torn on this topic.When it was brought up in season 8.... EXTREMELY MINOR SPOILER WARNING FOR COMICS






with Andrew I thought it was dealt with badly. The Slayer asking him why they don't use guns and him just saying they don't end of story. Maybe they do help at certain times i.e. the Judge but I don't think I would like to see a slayer squad packing heat, so to speak. It's too messy and I think there is a certain honour to hand to hand combat. So I say no to Buffy and Guns!

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

No, or at least on an extremely limited basis. There's a genre convention to stick with, of course, but from a realistic perspective, there's too much danger to innocent bystanders. Once a bullet leaves the barrel, it doesn't care who's in the way, can't be directed, has a much greater effective range than a stake, sword, or arrow, and can go any which way. I think we got enough gangbangers, cops, drug dealers, FBI, and BATF agents throwing lead in all directions already. (Disclaimer: I'm pro-gun ownership, and I've carried since I was 18; but this is the same argument I use against giving police departments these nifty little .22 machine guns that fire 1200-1500 rpm: don't the bad guys throw enough wild shots everywhere without the good guys adding to the carnage?)

 

[white avenger]

Miss K, words like "honor" and "chivalry" work quite well on the playing field, but we're talking about, even at a number ranging in the hundreds, a group of young girls who are certainly super powered, but still young girls, not Navy Seals, (probably a bad analogy, since the Seals do, in fact, use modern weapons) who are for the most part inexperienced. The only real experienced Slayers are Buffy and Faith, and a couple of dozen one-battle-survivors from Sunnydale. I'm not talking about "packing heat." Habitually and constantly going armed requires a mindset not learned in a few months, as witness the far too many accidental deaths caused here in my own country by the improper use of firearms. I'm merely saying that the Slayers should have the option of "evening the odds" with the properly applied application of modern weaponry when the need arises (as in with the Judge and the rocket launcher). As concerned as Buffy is about the welfare of "her" girls, which epitaph would you think she would prefer to have applied to any one of them: "She fought with honor and died young," of "She fought effectively and lived to grow old"?

And, for the record, Andrew's answer never struck me as much as an answer as the avoidance of one.


P S---If it ain't Spuff, it just ain't enuff.

Edit:

No, or at least on an extremely limited basis. There's a genre convention to stick with, of course, but from a realistic perspective, there's too much danger to innocent bystanders. Once a bullet leaves the barrel, it doesn't care who's in the way, can't be directed, has a much greater effective range than a stake, sword, or arrow, and can go any which way. I think we got enough gangbangers, cops, drug dealers, FBI, and BATF agents throwing lead in all directions already. (Disclaimer: I'm pro-gun ownership, and I've carried since I was 18; but this is the same argument I use against giving police departments these nifty little .22 machine guns that fire 1200-1500 rpm: don't the bad guys throw enough wild shots everywhere without the good guys adding to the carnage?)

(I didn't start carrying until I was 21, as is requires in my state, but since I'm now 60, I think I've been at a bit longer than you)

I agree with you about the "spray and pray" method of firearm use advocated by such experts as Rambo and the Terminator, but if you pay careful attention to the fight scenes in BTVS, ATS, or the current issues of Buffy Season 8, there are very few innocent bystanders to be concerned with, and under those circumstances, the responsible use of modern firepower would most certainly help the at least some of the Slayers survive long enough to draw their pensions.

(Besides which, the only time the hero misses the target in the movies is when it's integral to the plot)

 

[Kean]

Miss K, words like "honor" and "chivalry" work quite well on the playing field, but we're talking about, even at a number ranging in the hundreds, a group of young girls who are certainly super powered, but still young girls, not Navy Seals, (probably a bad analogy, since the Seals do, in fact, use modern weapons) who are for the most part inexperienced. The only real experienced Slayers are Buffy and Faith, and a couple of dozen one-battle-survivors from Sunnydale. I'm not talking about "packing heat." Habitually and constantly going armed requires a mindset not learned in a few months, as witness the far too many accidental deaths caused here in my own country by the improper use of firearms. I'm merely saying that the Slayers should have the option of "evening the odds" with the properly applied application of modern weaponry when the need arises (as in with the Judge and the rocket launcher). As concerned as Buffy is about the welfare of "her" girls, which epitaph would you think she would prefer to have applied to any one of them: "She fought with honor and died young," of "She fought effectively and lived to grow old"?

And, for the record, Andrew's answer never struck me as much as an answer as the avoidance of one.


P S---If it ain't Spuff, it just ain't enuff.

But what makes you think that having guns would lengthen their lives? I mean if they introduce guns then so too will their oppenents, which to me leaves them in even graver danger for all the reasons Rowan Hawthorn expressed above. If a specific situation calls for firearms then by all means use it but I just don't believe they would truly help the cause if they became as essential to the slayer as the stake.

"She fought effectively and lived to grow old"?

By saying this you are insinuating that the slayers are currently ineffective. I just don't buy that. Since the beginning the Slayer has worked without firearms and the world is still standing. Now I know guns and the like were not available for 99% of that time but Buffy has only once used a firearm to slay in 9 year long career. So I really don't see why they should have them now just cuz there is more Slayers.

(P.S. Spuffy smuffy...Bangel forever)

 

[white avenger]

Okay, Miss K, consider this: Until Buffy, no Slayer ever lived to see her twenty fifth birthday. Now, you're a Slayer, just turned twenty, and you want to see at least your thirtieth birthday. If the prudent use of modern technology, including firearms, would increase your odds of seeing that birthday, i e staying alive longer, would you say, "Nope, I'm gonna stick with my trusty stake. It's traditional, it's honorable, and all of the other Slayers, most of whom died teenagers, used them before me" ? or would you be more apt to say something like, "If a rocket launcher was good enough for Buffy, it's good enough for me."

I'm not talking about a piecemeal permanent arming of all the Slayers all the time, only having the more powerfuf weaponry available when it might be needed.

I will give up my Spuffy when you pry my Spike action figure from my cold dead fingers.

 

[Kemy]

Buffy always had a rep for violence, people never knew why, she started buying up lots of guns? would have had her ass in jail in no time.

Cells of Slayers already thought of as terrorists buying large quantities of rifles etc? seriously going to get entire governments involved.

Bullets wouldn't do much to most demons unless you have high calibre, fast rate of fire rifles, which would cause A LOT of noise, collateral damage and endanger EVERYONE nearby. The cost would be too high, they jam too easily when being thrown about, ammo would be bought by the box load, series cash needed. And they don't work on Vampires.

Far, far too messy.

 

[Kean]

Okay, Miss K, consider this: Until Buffy, no Slayer ever lived to see her twenty fifth birthday. Now, you're a Slayer, just turned twenty, and you want to see at least your thirtieth birthday. If the prudent use of modern technology, including firearms, would increase your odds of seeing that birthday, i e staying alive longer, would you say, "Nope, I'm gonna stick with my trusty stake. It's traditional, it's honorable, and all of the other Slayers, most of whom died teenagers, used them before me" ? or would you be more apt to say something like, "If a rocket launcher was good enough for Buffy, it's good enough for me."

I'm not talking about a piecemeal permanent arming of all the Slayers all the time, only having the more powerfuf weaponry available when it might be needed.

I will give up my Spuffy when you pry my Spike action figure from my cold dead fingers.

WA your gona have to get those eyes checked cuz I said that if the situation required the use of exceptional weaponary i.e. rocketlaucher than by all means use it. I don't, however, believe it should become an everyday slaying tool. It just feels wrong somehow.

(P.S. By all means hold on to your Spuffy...just know that it is a lie and Bangel is the truth! and while you will give up Spuffy at death I'm taking Bangel with me! you just don't have that kind of dedication I suppose:tongue🙂

 

[white avenger]

If you will read the second paragraph of my last post, the one beginning, "I'm not talking about...", you might see that, once more, we are in agreement. Now, what was that crack about eyesight?


I wish I was an apple tree

With apples big and red

And every time that Angel walked by

I'd drop one on his head

 

[Kean]

If you will read the second paragraph of my last post, the one beginning, "I'm not talking about...", you might see that, once more, we are in agreement. Now, what was that crack about eyesight?


I wish I was an apple tree

With apples big and red

And every time that Angel walked by

I'd drop one on his head

Ok then we both agree that we agree😀....and I didn't say A THING about your eyesight!:whistle:

(P.S. Drop all the apples you want, Buffy will kiss it better for him!)

 

[Rowan Hawthorn]

Edit:

(I didn't start carrying until I was 21, as is requires in my state, but since I'm now 60, I think I've been at a bit longer than you)

Not by much. I'm 52.

I agree with you about the "spray and pray" method of firearm use advocated by such experts as Rambo and the Terminator, but if you pay careful attention to the fight scenes in BTVS, ATS, or the current issues of Buffy Season 8, there are very few innocent bystanders to be concerned with,

How about on the next block over? Even a .22 has a range of around 1.5 miles; a .45 about the same; a 9mm nearly half again that much, and a .223 military round nearly double.

and under those circumstances, the responsible use of modern firepower would most certainly help the at least some of the Slayers survive long enough to draw their pensions.

I did say "limited basis". There may be a time when the police have a legitimate need for those squirt-guns, too, but the average cop? Nyet.

(Besides which, the only time the hero misses the target in the movies is when it's integral to the plot)

This is true; on the other hand, I don't miss much, either - but I still don't choose a MAC-10 as my carry gun... :fighting1

 

[white avenger]

First off, it's nice to see another old f**t around here. It's kinda hrd to keep up with all these young 'uns. Sorry for the mis assumption about your age.

Secondly, the relative range of the various rounds you mention apply more to the real world than Buffy's world, and while I am the first one to advocate accuracy in depicting the proper use of any weapon in fictional formats, we're talking about shooting monsters, and demons here. Some leeway for fantasy should be allowed (on the other hand, if it would cause some kid to get the wrong idea about guns, let's forget the entire thing. You're right, I'm wrong. It gets harder to admit that, the older I get.)

Finally, about the Mac-10, a friend of mine was a class 3 dealer when I was in college, and we tried out some of his stock on a few weekends. The Mac-10 is a piece of excrement, much ado about next to nothing, and should have been float tested instead of going into production. (His Thompson was a piece of art, but that's a story for another time). I agree, even if it were concealable, it would never replace my Colt Cobra. Unfortunately, you and I come from a generation where the first shot was supposed to get the job done, and the "double tap" was what you did only if the first one DIDN'T do the job.

Again, it's good te see a few olf folks around, and even more pleasant to fing another shooter. Maybe we can get together sometime and swap gun tales.

 

[The Chosen]

Watch this: YouTube - BtVS Season 3 DVD bonus-weapons

Guns are directly addressed in there.

- TC

 

[Kean]

First of all, Thanks TC!😀...I agree with the whole medievil explanation

Couple of off topicy things...How young does Marti Noxon look in that vid? I mean really! and secondly what was Harry Groener doing on the Angel set when the Mayor was never in Angel?

 

[GATEGOD]

Guns would look pretty ... stupid if a 'gang' of slayers came down the street and mowed down a couple of vamps to near death then walked over and tapped there hearts with a toothpick.... I mean why even say Vampires can get hurt so bad they can be put in a wheel chair, when a slayer could get a machine gun and just go to work on the vampires and kill them basically without staking them, seems contradictory and weird. Anyways I'd rather see the hand to hand combat stuff anyway, for a show like Buffy and Angel.

 

[white avenger]

Guns would look pretty ... stupid if a 'gang' of slayers came down the street and mowed down a couple of vamps to near death then walked over and tapped there hearts with a toothpick.... I mean why even say Vampires can get hurt so bad they can be put in a wheel chair, when a slayer could get a machine gun and just go to work on the vampires and kill them basically without staking them, seems contradictory and weird. Anyways I'd rather see the hand to hand combat stuff anyway, for a show like Buffy and Angel.

I prefer the hand to hand stuff too, and always have. There comes a point, however, when punches and kicks just seem absurd (a lot like the "Crazy 80" fight scene in Kill Bill, great action stuff, but COME ON...

Joss has said that what he loves most about working in the comic book media as opposed to tv or movies is that your effects are limited only by what the writer can imagine and the artist can draw. That tells me that Buffy and her intrepid crew are gonna be fighting dinosaur sized demons before the season is over. Godzilla's gonna take one helluva stake!

You guys just don't get the drift of what I originally proposed: there are going to be times when Joss' imagination are gonna come up with stuff for the Slayers to go up against that traditional (more accurately ANTIQUE) weapons just aren't gonna handle. For those times, I think that the Slayers should have some real firepower available.

 

[Blondie Bear]

I don't have an opinion about Buffy using guns, really, but I've always wondered why a shotgun slug to the chest wouldn't kill a vampire just as dead as a wooden stake. You're destroying the heart, aren't you? What's the diff?

Oh, and just so I'm not feeling so left out, I carry, too! I have a Glock 26 (small enough for my teeny hands and very concealable).

 

[white avenger]

I'm an old wheel gun myself, preferring a Colt Cobra in .38 Special for everyday carry (though I honestly haven't been into the "everyday carry" thing since we started working with kids at our TKD studio), and a Ruger Security Six .357 Magnum when I'm working around our wooded territory. I used a Colt Commander .45 ACP and a Smith & Wesson .45 Long when I was competing in Combat and Bowling Pin shoots. (It just occurred to me that all of my handguns are 30 years old or older, and I bought them all new. I must be getting old!)

Anyhow, my son carries a Glock 27 and really likes it. I've shot it a few times, and it shoots okay, but I prefer something a bit more large bore in a service auto. Matter of preference, though. If you're comfortable with it, that's fine. You and several thousand police departments can't be wrong...

Mayde you, Hawthorne, and me can get up a Buffy Gun Club. That might be fun.

 

[Kemy]

I have a Glock 33 myself and although its damn tiny its pretty functional, and very easily concealable. Most Glocks are around the .40 calibre so maybe they'd be of use taking out a Gnarls eyes, a Mora Demons Ruby or piercing the odd Demons heart but a life or death struggle being tossed about could make it go off and that could be very bad indeed.

I did think last year an ebony bullet in a wheel gun with a calibre that would put the bullet squarely in the Heart and not pass on through would be pretty good, like the one Faith used on Angel, but that would still involve custom bullet manufacturing and single shot kills, kinda slow when a Scythe or Axe can behead a few Vamps in one go, a good Stake is good for dozens of Stakings.

 

[white avenger]

I have a Glock 33 myself and although its damn tiny its pretty functional, and very easily concealable. Most Glocks are around the .40 calibre so maybe they'd be of use taking out a Gnarls eyes, a Mora Demons Ruby or piercing the odd Demons heart but a life or death struggle being tossed about could make it go off and that could be very bad indeed.

I did think last year an ebony bullet in a wheel gun with a calibre that would put the bullet squarely in the Heart and not pass on through would be pretty good, like the one Faith used on Angel, but that would still involve custom bullet manufacturing and single shot kills, kinda slow when a Scythe or Axe can behead a few Vamps in one go, a good Stake is good for dozens of Stakings.

My idea would be simple tracer ammunition. It's fairly easily available, would work in most handguns, rifles, or shotguns without modification, and the incendiary round should burn up a vampire or anything else nicely.