Buffy And The Scoobies

[Erickson22]

Ok, so while I was re-watching OMWF I realized that from season 6 on-wards the scoobies treat Buffy like crap, I mean even after she told them about her being in heaven they kinda just expected her too get over it. I mean I always thought that Buffy had depression in season six and she got alittle better in season seven but same thing, like Giles I really do not like him in season seven first, he dumps all the girls on Buffy (which i understand Buffy is basically the last hope.) but then he gets mad when Buffy turns into stone and tries too do what she thinks is best too do for the group. Ill admit that while she did do some things wrong (like how she dealt with Chloe's death) but I do honestly think she was scared and just trying too get all the girls too be strong,
sorry just had too let out a little rant dont even get me started on them kicking her out LOL. But it seems that even in the comics Buffy is still somewhat not right i just feel like everybody has not tried too connect with her as much as they did in season two or three.

 

[Buffy Summers]

Totally agree - sometimes I wonder if by the end of the series Whedon even WANTS us to like these characters.

 

[sosa lola]

Ill admit that while she did do some things wrong (like how she dealt with Chloe's death) but I do honestly think she was scared and just trying too get all the girls too be strong,

Wasn't Giles scared, too? Willow? Xander? Dawn? Or only Buffy gets excused for being a crappy leader and friend, and the other characters should only be robots with no brain of their own, just following Buffy like lapdogs?

All these characters made mistakes in the last two seasons. All were idiots and unlikable. But eventually they managed to stick together and save the world over and over.

 

[Erickson22]

Wasn't Giles scared, too? Willow? Xander? Dawn? Or only Buffy gets excused for being a crappy leader and friend, and the other characters should only be robots with no brain of their own, just following Buffy like lapdogs?

All these characters made mistakes in the last two seasons. All were idiots and unlikable. But eventually they managed to stick together and save the world over and over.

You are absolutely right they where all scared and Buffy did have her bad moments (Like how she kept trying too get Willow to use magic when Willow did not want too.) but I just still just feel like they expected alot out of Buffy and when she did not live up to their expectations they kinda handled it the wrong way but people do make mistakes, But the big thing that really bugs me though is more in season 6 is that It seemed like they didn't try too connect with her. I feel like if they would of tried connecting with her ,But I guess Buffy has also been disconnected from the group since mid to late season 5 so Like you said everyone did make mistakes.

 

[bespangeled]

Wasn't Giles scared, too? Willow? Xander? Dawn? Or only Buffy gets excused for being a crappy leader and friend, and the other characters should only be robots with no brain of their own, just following Buffy like lapdogs?

All these characters made mistakes in the last two seasons. All were idiots and unlikable. But eventually they managed to stick together and save the world over and over.

The thing with being the leader is that you get blamed even when you have nothing to do with what went wrong. Take Xander's eye for example - he went to fight against Caleb with the same information Buffy and everyone had. He lost one eye, and had Spike not been there he would have been blind or dead. But somehow this is Buffy's fault when he comes home from the hospital - as if she should have known, or protected him.

Faith leads them all into a trap, and Buffy is the only one who understands - who pries them away from blaming Faith. So yeah, it is harder when you are the leader, because when someone else screws up or gets hurt it is all your fault.

Look at Chloe - if Kennedy hadn't been screaming at her over nothing, and calling her a maggot, maybe she would be alive. Buffy gets more blame for her death than Kennedy does. Buffy may not have been tactful, but she was right - they were nowhere near being able to fight off any army. Sitting around and focusing on Chloe was gonna get everyone killed.

 

[GoSpuffy]

I think the scoobies were just growing up and to an extent growing apart. I have friends from when I was in school and I still love them but our relationship as adults juggling jobs and family and our homes is way, way different than when we were teenagers. They were going through a perfectly normal transition period, well normal for a hellmouth anyway.

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

But the big thing that really bugs me though is more in season 6 is that It seemed like they didn't try too connect with her.

Well, it's not like Buffy tried to "connect" with them and they refused her. She turned to Spike because she was ashamed of her feelings or lack of feelings while at the same time Willow and Xander had their own issues. And it's not an unusual behavior of her to keep her friends out of the loop. She loved her secrets even when they might have been important for the others to know.

 

[GoSpuffy]

Well, it's not like Buffy tried to "connect" with them and they refused her. She turned to Spike because she was ashamed of her feelings or lack of feelings while at the same time Willow and Xander had their own issues. And it's not an unusual behavior of her to keep her friends out of the loop. She loved her secrets even when they might have been important for the others to know.

in the beginning it was to protect her friends, she grew ashamed over time but originally it was to protect them from the knowledge she had been in heaven.

 

[bespangeled]

in the beginning it was to protect her friends, she grew ashamed over time but originally it was to protect them from the knowledge she had been in heaven.

And even after Willow dragged her out of heaven, and almost killed Dawn, she was there for her when Willow cried and begged for help. But she's blamed for not connecting with her friends.

In fact, Buffy felt guilty that she hadn't seen and helped Willow earlier. I don't think I saw Willow ever really apologizing for what she did to Buffy. Kinda makes my point really - Buffy is held to a higher standard of behavior. No one but Spike saw that something was seriously wrong with Buffy because they all wanted Buffy to be thankful and eat pizza. N one but Spike asked her, and asked to help.

Their friend was suffering from crippling depression, and they never did a thing - she gets blamed for not telling them. Talk about blaming the victim!

 

[Priceless]

Someone once said to me that depression is anger turned inwards. I don't know how true that is, but I think in S6 Buffy was so incredibly angry at the Scoobies that she feared letting that anger out incase she actually did them some damage.

Buffy tried to understand the Scoobies reasoning for bringing her back, but understanding doesn't mean you agree, or can let go of the anger. And it was the anger she felt towards them that made it hard for her to connect.

 

[bespangeled]

Someone once said to me that depression is anger turned inwards. I don't know how true that is, but I think in S6 Buffy was so incredibly angry at the Scoobies that she feared letting that anger out incase she actually did them some damage.

Buffy tried to understand the Scoobies reasoning for bringing her back, but understanding doesn't mean you agree, or can let go of the anger. And it was the anger she felt towards them that made it hard for her to connect.

Completely agree - but it was also the fact that they all made it clear that Buffy had ot be fine. No one ever asked her if they could help her - they just asked if she was okay. They knew Buffy - which means they didn't really want her to be honest.

She did connect to her friends as I pointed out. - it was her friends who never bothered connecting to her. They spent her inheritance and lived for free in her house, but for some reason it was Buffy who had to take care of the house and the expenses. No one wanted to know that she wasn't all right because then they couldn't count on her to get it all done on her own.

 

[Klaus Kartoffel]

she was there for her when Willow cried and begged for help. But she's blamed for not connecting with her friends.

Do you really think Willow and Xander had refused to help her if she had a similar breakdown in front of them? Before Willow had endangered Dawn, nobody thought about to do something about her problems as well. They talked about it (Xander&Anya to Buffy) or bailed (Giles), that's it.

That Buffy didn't connect to her friends is a simple fact and has nothing to do with blame. I wasn't about to imply this. It just explains the mutual silence since the others, especially Willow, had their own serious issues to deal with as well (again, it's not about blaming someone). Buffy is in general throughout the series hard to approach when she's closing herself off.

I don't think I saw Willow ever really apologizing for what she did to Buffy.

Willow states in the comics that she could never be sorry for bringing Buffy back. She openly regrets that Buffy was suffering though and had learned better (BtVS S10, A&F S09 is what I recently can recall). I can't recall a apology scene either but that doesn't speak of her character but rather that the makers obviously haven't seen it as important, IMO.

Besides, Willow, Xander, Anya and Tara pulled her out of heaven. Willow was the crucial part, but since, when it comes to her, it's always about that she's an adult and solely responsible for her own actions paired with complete refusal to take any mitigating circumstances into account, then it must apply to the other characters as well.

Someone once said to me that depression is anger turned inwards. I don't know how true that is, but I think in S6 Buffy was so incredibly angry at the Scoobies that she feared letting that anger out incase she actually did them some damage.

Buffy tried to understand the Scoobies reasoning for bringing her back, but understanding doesn't mean you agree, or can let go of the anger. And it was the anger she felt towards them that made it hard for her to connect.

I have to agree. That was the feeling I got from Buffy too.

They spent her inheritance and lived for free in her house,

They moved into the house and spent her inheritance to take care of Dawn, while Buffy was dead. Were Willow and Tara rich or had their own income?

Just a question, I may just don't remember. 🙂Where is stated that Willow and Tara lived for free and contributed nothing to subsistence? It just seems unlikely and illogical that they were complete cadgers.

When the Scoobies were so awful, why didn't Willow and Tara moved out as soon as Buffy was back? At least Willow could have lived for free in the dorms as well (scholarship).

I overall agree with your thoughts about Buffy's feelings and motives but not with the Scooby bashing. It's more complex. There are also enough scenes where i.e Willow was very supportive and caring to Buffy and, the other way around, where Buffy acted awfully.

 

[sosa lola]

Just a question, I may just don't remember. 🙂Where is stated that Willow and Tara lived for free and contributed nothing to subsistence? It just seems unlikely and illogical that they were complete cadgers.

When the Scoobies were so awful, why didn't Willow and Tara moved out as soon as Buffy was back? At least Willow could have lived for free in the dorms as well (scholarship).

I agree. The show didn't state that Willow and Tara lived without contributing. And good point about living for free in the dorms. Willow clearly stayed at Buffy's house to help her out.
 

Take Xander's eye for example - he went to fight against Caleb with the same information Buffy and everyone had. He lost one eye, and had Spike not been there he would have been blind or dead. But somehow this is Buffy's fault when he comes home from the hospital - as if she should have known, or protected him.

Buffy is blamed for not listening to the others - Spike included - when they told her it was a trap. She couldn't rely on anyone or trust anyone's judgement or opinion. She worked alone and wanted the others to fall in line. That's what they blamed her for - not Xander's eye. No one mentioned Xander's eye being Buffy's fault.