Buffy, Angel And Spike, Resurrection, Curse And Reward

[white avenger]

Something has occurred to me. Considering Buffy's reaction to having her soul "torn out of Heaven" by Willow in Season 6, what about Angel's and Spike's souls? If it was wrong to bring Buffy's soul back, wouldn't it be just as bad to do the same thing to Liam and William? That leads me to the question, do Angel and Spike actually have the souls of their human hosts, or were the demons, themselves, who currently inhabit their bodies actually for the first time given souls unique to themselves, rather than having Liam's and William's souls returned? If not, why don't Spike and Angel seem to have the same kind of memories of Heaven (or Hell) that Buffy had? Or do they have those memories, and just never mention them?

 

[Blaze]

Some of what I will say might just be personal cannon, but in my opinion, when people are transformed into vamps, their old human self's souls don't go to heaven or hell. They probably are in some type of limbo. I think both the body, and the soul need to die in order for the person to be at peace, or to be transported into another dimension.

This happens to Buffy, her body remains on Earth, but the body is "no longer in use". Therefore, her whole self goes to heaven. When Angel "dies" in s2, both his body and soul are transported to that hell dimension. When Connor goes to another dimension, the same physics apply. But if a human becomes a vampire, there is a disconnect occurring. That's why it would suck so hard for a vamp to turn you, they are literally taking over the house. Kick out the soul, and the soul is left to wonder helplessly.

As for whether it's a punishment to get the soul back, in a way it is. Both Angel and Spike almost went a lil crazy after getting the soul back. But I think having the memories of killing all those people pretty much outweighs any good feeling having a soul could bring in.

On a side note, I think the soul is essentially just the conscience. Both Angel/Liam and Spike/William are the same people only differentiated by the conscience. Heck, the soul might just be the same for everyone, as the soul does not affect personality. So yes, Liam/Angelus/Angel are all the same person, with or without the soul.

 

[bespangeled]

Some of what I will say might just be personal cannon, but in my opinion, when people are transformed into vamps, their old human self's souls don't go to heaven or hell. They probably are in some type of limbo. I think both the body, and the soul need to die in order for the person to be at peace, or to be transported into another dimension.

This happens to Buffy, her body remains on Earth, but the body is "no longer in use". Therefore, her whole self goes to heaven. When Angel "dies" in s2, both his body and soul are transported to that hell dimension. When Connor goes to another dimension, the same physics apply. But if a human becomes a vampire, there is a disconnect occurring. That's why it would suck so hard for a vamp to turn you, they are literally taking over the house. Kick out the soul, and the soul is left to wonder helplessly.

As for whether it's a punishment to get the soul back, in a way it is. Both Angel and Spike almost went a lil crazy after getting the soul back. But I think having the memories of killing all those people pretty much outweighs any good feeling having a soul could bring in.

On a side note, I think the soul is essentially just the conscience. Both Angel/Liam and Spike/William are the same people only differentiated by the conscience. Heck, the soul might just be the same for everyone, as the soul does not affect personality. So yes, Liam/Angelus/Angel are all the same person, with or without the soul.

Heaven would be a really heavy duty reward dimension of some sort. Buffy earned that.

I figured the souls of those vamped went to some sort of limbo area - like a holding area for souls ripped from bodies still in use. Once the body went - dust, death or whatever - the soul could go on to it's natural reward. I figure that people get their own souls - but it works just as well with undifferentiated. And if there is a physical death, and a surviving demon, then the demon gets rewarded by being sent to a hell dimension.

Being cursed or gifted with his soul, or a soul each - both vamps now have demon over their nice clean souls and their souls will go to hell. Pavayne pointed out that detail.

 

[Kana]

Well, I still think the definition of the soul is rather confusing. Does it equate to the spirit or does it equate to the conscience? Regardless it's suggested that the soul goes to the "Ether" when someone becomes a vampire. It would seem that if the soul is the spirit, it's perhaps a limbo (as it's been suggested) which might explain why Angel and Spike have no memory of it.