I think by the time Supernatural was in production, the WB/CW decided it didn't really need prestige television, and could make just as much money with pretty people in fight scenes while aping Buffy Speak, without having to deal with people like Joss.
It could be said that in BTVS Joss had there be various made up names for the ultimate bad guy whereas in Supernatural the name was The Devil.
In BTVS the longevity could be passed on until ultimately there was The First, but Supernatural didn't have that opportunity, it kept repeating meetings of The Devil and times of going to hell.
It could be said that in BTVS Joss had there be various made up names for the ultimate bad guy whereas in Supernatural the name was The Devil.
In BTVS the longevity could be passed on until ultimately there was The First, but Supernatural didn't have that opportunity, it kept repeating meetings of The Devil and times of going to hell.
That’s true to be fair though there were other seasons that they tried to do other stuff like Eve and the Leviathans but they were largely negatively received. Then after that they just kept repeating the same cycles and a continuous escalation until they had to fight God himself. I do love the show overall but the repetitiveness in later seasons with the manufactured conflict is a weak point.
Yeah, but instead of keeping them as avatars of abstract concepts that are beyond human reckoning, Supernatural punked them all out. Which Xena did first, for the record.
It could be said that in BTVS Joss had there be various made up names for the ultimate bad guy whereas in Supernatural the name was The Devil.
In BTVS the longevity could be passed on until ultimately there was The First, but Supernatural didn't have that opportunity, it kept repeating meetings of The Devil and times of going to hell.
In reality, the ultimate bad guy in Supernatural is "God" and the one that defeat him is the son of Lucifer, that become the new "God".
I didn't like successive seasons from season 5 onward and the depiction of "God", Amara, Michael etc in the show that were too much "humanized" and pathetic, but i liked that Supernatural wasn't afraid to show something like that.
Yeah, but instead of keeping them as avatars of abstract concepts that are beyond human reckoning, Supernatural punked them all out. Which Xena did first, for the record.
Yes, but in Xena (and Hercules) they represented the fall of polytheism and the raise of monotheism through Zoroastrianism that was a monotheistic (or dualistic) religion before Judaism and Christianity (and Islam). As a matter of fact, the show represented Hercules interacting with Zarathustra/Zoroaster
The "God" of the Israelites and Dahak in Xena/Hercules were based on Ahura Mazda (God)/Creation and Angra Mainyu/Destruction (similarly to Chuck/"God" and Amara/"Darkness" in Supernatural) from Zoroastrianism.
Dahak was based on Angra Mainyu/Ahriman mixed with Azi Dahaka of Persian religion and Zoroastrianism evolved into the Judeo-Christian concept of Satan.
As a matter of fact, the Judeo-Christian concept of Satan/enemy of "God" was developed also from Zoroastrianism during the Persian rule of Jewish people. After their liberation from the Babylonian exile of Nebuchadnezzar II with the victory of Cyrus the Great in the 6th century BC.
In early Hebrew scriptures (like the Torah), the term "ha-satan" simply means "the accuser" or "the adversary," and it doesn't yet carry the notion of an independent, malevolent being in opposition to God. In the Book of Job, for instance, "ha-satan" is portrayed more as a member of God’s heavenly court, tasked with testing the faith of humans, rather than as an embodiment of pure evil.
However, during and after the Persian period, Jewish thought evolved in response to external influences, including Zoroastrian ideas of a cosmic struggle between good and evil. This shift gradually transformed the figure of ha-satan from a mere accuser to a more malevolent adversary of God’s will.
Also, Christianity grew out of Jewish messianic expectations and continued the evolution of theological ideas, including the concept of Satan (and Lucifer), further developing the dualistic struggle between good (God) and evil (Satan or Lucifer for Christianity and Iblis for Islam).
By the way, I think that between the First Evil of Btvs, Lucifer and Amara from Supernatural, and Dahak from Hercules/Xena, it isn't even a comparison. Dahak was a better villain.
That’s true to be fair though there were other seasons that they tried to do other stuff like Eve and the Leviathans but they were largely negatively received. Then after that they just kept repeating the same cycles and a continuous escalation until they had to fight God himself. I do love the show overall but the repetitiveness in later seasons with the manufactured conflict is a weak point.
The Mother of All was a terrible concept. As for the Leviathans....well, that was definitely an underwhelming arc. The only saving grace was Dick Roman. The running gag regarding his first name was hilarious.
Supernatural definitely should've ended after S5. It got to the point where I was sick of angels, even Cas. It was just too much. I also wish that Chuck had remained a "prophet" instead of the whole God thing. I have so many issues with the later seasons. (But I must say, The French Mistake and Clap Your Hands if You Believe are brilliant episodes)
NotASlayerSo many possible comments that could be made about Dick.... err, Roman.
I think a lot of shows have a fairly natural five season cycle. Season 1 is people getting used to the characters and the setting. In season 2, the characters have gelled and things are working. This peaks in season 3 as everything has come together. In season 4, fatigue sets in to a degree and in season 5 there is a last big swing.
It's in season 6 that things fall apart. No-one has planned beyond season 5 and the magical 100 episodes, as no-one devoted much time to thinking about something that had a high chance of never happening. All the good ideas have been used up. Even worse, the original creator, who never thought beyond seasons 1-5, may have moved on, leaving someone new trying to make their mark in season 6. This results in season 6 not being season 6, but season 1 of a new show with different characters. Which has a good chance of killing the show as the characters and universe are going through season 1 growing pains again, which contradict the previous five seasons.
Sometimes, the show moves beyond the pains of season 6 and manages to regain some of what it lost. Supernatural managed it because the core of season 6 was still Supernatural. Buffy died because the core of season 6 wasn't Buffy. Whatever Supernatural's problems in season 6, it did manage to remain reasonably true to its identity, which Buffy did not. Supernatural may have never reached its peak again, but it managed to keep going. (I've just finished S10, which is definitely up there for me as the worst season in the show.)
@November The Darkness has been introduced, a primordial horror from the dawn of time, who predates Death, so evil that the archangels Lucifer and Michael screamed in terror on discovering the Darkness had been released, something that God and the angels had imprisoned away,
Sometimes, the show moves beyond the pains of season 6 and manages to regain some of what it lost. Supernatural managed it because the core of season 6 was still Supernatural. Buffy died because the core of season 6 wasn't Buffy. Whatever Supernatural's problems in season 6, it did manage to remain reasonably true to its identity, which Buffy did not. Supernatural may have never reached its peak again, but it managed to keep going. (I've just finished S10, which is definitely up there for me as the worst season in the show.)
Agreed. S6 of Buffy was all over the place. (The only episodes I enjoyed watching were 6, 8, 10, 12, and 20) As for Supernatural, the only S6 episode I LOVED was The French Mistake. It was so enjoyable that I rewatch it whenever I can.
"We’ve entered a dimension where you’re Jensen Ackles and I’m something called a Jared Padalecki.” “What? Now, you’re Polish?” 😅
Agreed. S6 of Buffy was all over the place. (The only episodes I enjoyed watching were 6, 8, 10, 12, and 20) As for Supernatural, the only S6 episode I LOVED was The French Mistake. It was so enjoyable that I rewatch it whenever I can.
"We’ve entered a dimension where you’re Jensen Ackles and I’m something called a Jared Padalecki.” “What? Now, you’re Polish?” 😅
S6 of Supernatural was, at best, okay. It was pretty clear they didn't know where to go, but at least there were a lot of adequate MotW episodes, if very little that stood out.
S6 of Supernatural was, at best, okay. It was pretty clear they didn't know where to go, but at least there were a lot of adequate MotW episodes, if very little that stood out.
But S6 also had Clap Your Hands if You Believe ("Fight the Fairies!") and Frontierland because Dean LOVES posse. Caged Heat because of Cas, "If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter, why does he keep slapping her rear?"
But S6 also had Clap Your Hands if You Believe ("Fight the Fairies!") and Frontierland because Dean LOVES posse. Caged Heat because of Cas, "If the pizza man truly loves this babysitter, why does he keep slapping her rear?"
Buffy by muliple laps! I still rewatch. I have watched the first 5 of supernatural once; and random bits of later seasons. I tried restarting several times bc i really would like to know how it ended. I have much of it on dvd. Just can't seem to get her done. Mostly haven't made it past one season each attempt. There is so much competition. I like them, then i get bored or they kill off someone i liked.
I have managed to see the following multiple times - Buffy (lost count) - it was on constant rotation for 2 years of nursing school - so i have seen every episode in double digits - even the "skippable" ones - many, many times - i would watch the whole series in about 2 weeks while studying. Nope i did not sleep much!
Currently rewatching season 5 because of Michelle. Have also seen Angel >5x Stargate>6x Criminal Minds (lost count) >6 for sure, MASH >5 - used to watch it on syndication for decades before it was on dvd. My partner was addicted.
True Blood >2x X-Files >1x (seen random episodes many times) original Star trek up thru enterprise >2x -- Deep Space 9 and TNG >3 (i own all the dvds) - never seen behind the pay wall.
One Tree Hill >2x - i think it is underrated for actors and writing. I have rewatched random bits of CSI, NCIS, L&O and ER.
I am pretty sure i will never see all of SPN. It gets repetitive and the two leads are OK actors but they dont have the effulgence of Buffy cast (yes, even Nick). The writing in the first 5 seasons is very cogent. After that it gets kinda random and by season 7 i stopped even trying to follow it. Saw a few eps after that but not enough to bring me back though i "planned to finish" some day.
Too many books to read, including too much great fanfic.
Too much to write...
I do love Castiel, Rufus and Bobby though...
And though i did not like season 7 of Buffy compared to Buffy - i would still rather watch Buffy season 7 than most seasons of most other shows.
Unlike others, though i sometimes find Buffy 6 hard to watch, i think it was amazing theatre and very real. People melt down after trauma. I love Buffy. Even when i cry for her.
I think i love Buffy and the other characters like family. I have spent more time with them than many of my family. I loved Buffy from the first episode - even though i never saw it until after Angel came on rhe air and hooked me!
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