Buffy/Angelverse Portals

[nerd4hire]

A discussion on another thread got me to thinking about portals to other dimensions in Buffy and Angel. Are there rules to such things insinuated in the text? Are Buffyverse portals different than Angelverse? What does the mythology say?

As was pointed out to me on the other thread Willow's opening of the portal to the Shadow Men dimension appeared to require great power, but in that case she was blasting through to an unknown dimension without the code, so to speak.

Opening the portal to Glory's dimension wasn't easy,yet in Showtime Torg opens the portal to the dimension of Beljoxa's eye with relative ease.

In Angel you can open a portal to Pylea by simply reading from a book, yet for a Senior Partner to pass into this reality in Reprise he must take on the form of a lesser demon.

I'm thinking maybe the rules of portal crossing might have something to do with factors like


1. How much power is passing through it.
2. Do you have the code (or key).
3. Is there some sort of equilibrium shift? For example in Get It Done an exchange of power must be made between dimensions. Does that maintain a balance. If so why can Illyria zap through to other dimensions with such ease. Is it because her dimension crossing abilities were established before the rules of entering, and exiting this reality were created?
4. In fact why do some species cross dimensions so easily while others have such a problem?
5. Are there different rules when talking about a portal to a different geographic location in this reality such as what happens in Season 8 from the Scottish castle to the Military base. Would that be like teleporting? Because in Two to Go Anya says a witch at Willow's level couldn't teleport.
6. How, if in any way, do the rules change depending on the location traveled to?
7. Is there a difference between a portal and a conduit?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

It must be something to do with the loss of the Time Lords during the Great Time War. They used to make inter-dimensional travel really easy you know...*Pointy retires to a cold, dark room for some quiet time...the walls have a kind of spongey, padded feel about them* 😉

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Well I guess one thing we can say is the Senior Partners are pure demons and we know that pure demons cannot enter this dimension without someone performing the ritual of ascension so that's basically why a senior partner would have to become a lesser demon. Same with Jasmine, she had to set many things in motion in order for her to be able to possess the form of Cordelia and then eventually give birth to herself. Also I believe since Pylea seems to be somewhat similar to the Earth dimension with humanoid demons and many "cows," living in that dimension coming to and fro might be easier than say opening a portal to Glory's dimension. Cause you must remember that Glory was trying to open up a dimension to one of the lowest places in hell and also the fact that Glory doesn't have the power in this dimension that she has in her home dimension. Because if you look at it the Hell Gods that sent Glory here didn't need the key to send her.

However I think as far as Illyria her travelling to many dimensions had to have happened before the rules were set up, because if you remember Illyria was last on Earth when the Old Ones walked the Earth and humans were JUST started to appear, because obviously she knew about humans and vampires which always striked me as odd because the Last Old One to leave this dimension is what created vampires so obviously Illyria should have been dead by then so she shouldn't know about these "new breeds," or a lot of the new breeds of demon that surfaced cause most of the demons now are human hybrids.

And I don't know I think in terms of Willow on "Get It Done," it wasn't just her opening a portal, but it was her opening a portal to an unknown place and also thousands of years in the past to ancient Africa, and Willow herself said one time she don't didn't think it was possible to do time travel, which is something we still haven't really seen that much in Buffyverse with the exception of that one time. (If that was really time travel or not some I don't know ancient time loop or something cause Buffy was able to fully understand them and vice versa)

Also it could've been easier for Buffy's witches because Willow had almost identified the location of the portal when she was scanning and tracing it and also because those at this Intiative base WANTED to be found so they could attempt to destroy Buffy and co with that blast thing. Of course they weren't prepared for the slayers to be prepared for them but blah. So that could be another reason why they seemed to open the portal with no obvious signs of difficulty.

And I'd say teleportation is a little different than opening a portal cause really open a portal is basically ripping a rather large hole through reality to instantly appear in another world or somewhere else in the same world. And I'd say teleportation taken from the way Nightcrawler's powers from X-Men works is basically the person transporting themselves through an alternate dimension and basically appearing wherever you want instead of creating a large rip through reality.

 

[nerd4hire]

Well I guess one thing we can say is the Senior Partners are pure demons and we know that pure demons cannot enter this dimension without someone performing the ritual of ascension

Do we know that though. Considering Glory, Jasmine and the Senior Partners as you did - If they're not old ones, they appear to be of a similar family yet they found a way in without performing the Ritual of acension. Illyria was definitely an old one. She goes out, and comes back in at will. There appears to be multiple, exploitable loopholes allowing beings of great power in and out. There does appear to be a couple of common threads though. Beings of great power appear to have restrictions in passing through. Some sort of transformation downgrade appears necessary. Do you agree?

The only possible exception to that I can think of off the top of my head is the worm in Fray (assuming we accept Fray as Canon).

also thousands of years in the past to ancient Africa, and Willow herself said one time she don't didn't think it was possible to do time travel, which is something we still haven't really seen that much in Buffyverse with the exception of that one time. (If that was really time travel or not some I don't know ancient time loop or something cause Buffy was able to fully understand them and vice versa)

Yeah, was it time travel? Here's the quote.

RED HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: We know who you are.

BLACK HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: And we know why you're here.

BROWN HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: We've been waiting.

BUFFY
(nods) Good. That's good then. Um, you know, I know we have bigger issues to deal with, but how'd I understand anything you guys just said? (they look at each other and stand, not answering) Oh, I know, ancient magicks. I just thought it was neat.

RED HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: (the three men start circling Buffy) We have been here since the beginning.

BLACK HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: Now, we are almost at the end.

BUFFY
The neat of it just left. End of what?

BROWN HAT SHADOW MAN
SUBTITLE: You are the hellmouth's last guardian.

And on teleportation...

And I'd say teleportation is a little different than opening a portal cause really open a portal is basically ripping a rather large hole through reality to instantly appear in another world or somewhere else in the same world. And I'd say teleportation taken from the way Nightcrawler's powers from X-Men works is basically the person transporting themselves through an alternate dimension and basically appearing wherever you want instead of creating a large rip through reality.

So would you say the "ripping (of a) a rather large hole through reality" would require more power and expertise than teleporting, or less?

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

Do we know that though. Considering Glory, Jasmine and the Senior Partners as you did - If they're not old ones, they appear to be of a similar family yet they found a way in without performing the Ritual of acension. Illyria was definitely an old one. She goes out, and comes back in at will. There appears to be multiple, exploitable loopholes allowing beings of great power in and out. There does appear to be a couple of common threads though. Beings of great power appear to have restrictions in passing through. Some sort of transformation downgrade appears necessary. Do you agree?

Yes and that's basically what I was saying. Glory couldn't come to this dimension unless she was placed in the body of a human being and her powers are downgraded. Illyria couldn't come back unless she was placed in the body of a human being and her powers had to be downgraded because the human body could not contain that amount of power. And as far as the topic of an Old One, why couldn't Glory be considered an Old One? I mean what really is a God? I mean Illyria is an Old One but she was also considered a God. So couldn't Glory be an Old One that left to a Hell dimension when humans came. Cause in the mythology it does say some Old Ones were banished and others died out. Also one isn't a God unless some one else professes it to be so. So I mean technically Glory is a demon, she's just so powerful that people called her a God. Same with Illyria, the Old Ones are demons but she's so powerful she was called a God.

And on teleporting I'd probably say it'd probably take more power to teleport than ripping a hole through reality, cause according tol the Buffyverse it takes a certain kind of magick or power to teleport but opening a portal takes a certain bit of knowledge, not necessarily power. I mean look at Pylea all you needed to know was where the hot spots were and how to read the language (knowledge) or Willow's witches opening the portal, we know they don't have anywhere near the power that Willow had in season 7, but I'm assuming they had some type of knowledge of how to find and open the portal so it was done. I could be wrong though.

PS- I like reading your views on thing n4h.

 

[The Chosen]

Wait...ok, if Glory opened the portal to go home and it was the big blue thing at it was travel-able, wouldn't have Buffy simply slipped from the dimension when she jumped?
- TC

 

[nerd4hire]

I never did understand the mechanics of that one The Chosen, but I also would be interested in an explanation there. That was all more like fairy tale stuff to me.

But on this one.

And on teleporting I'd probably say it'd probably take more power to teleport than ripping a hole through reality, cause according tol the Buffyverse it takes a certain kind of magick or power to teleport but opening a portal takes a certain bit of knowledge, not necessarily power. I mean look at Pylea all you needed to know was where the hot spots were and how to read the language (knowledge) or Willow's witches opening the portal, we know they don't have anywhere near the power that Willow had in season 7, but I'm assuming they had some type of knowledge of how to find and open the portal so it was done. I could be wrong though.

The only instance I can think off where a portal had to be ripped through the fabric of reality to an unknown location, and we saw some of the mechanics was in Get It Done. In that one considerable power was required. Willow had to draw on the power of what was for some reason considered the three most powerful (for purposes of the spell) people in the room.

Is more power required when you're traveling through dimensions than when you're portal traveling geographically in this reality as we saw in Season 8? Come to think of it though, if we were talking "Get it Done" style power leech, there was a room full of slayers in the Scottish castle.

 

[CharmedSlayer85]

The Glory thing yeah I don't get that either but I guess she had to die from mystical energy somehow...I don't know.

The only real instance where reality was literally ripped was when Sarjahn opened the dimension to Cortath, but I don't know if that can really count cause it wasn't a portal, cause like they said before there are no portals to Cortath. So I don't know I guess a portal is a rip that can be stiched back together...I don't know I just confused myself lol

 

[Allycat]

I compare the many different ways of travelling through a portal to the many different ways of crossing a body of water. If two dimensions are very far removed, there might be an ocean separating them, so it's gonna take a lot more effort to travel cross it, while others are so close, it's like stepping over a puddle of water on a rainy day. Of course, sometimes there's a ferry crossing the water, and sometimes there might be a bridge. But then sometimes you have to pay the ferryman or only certain pass-holders are allowed to use the bridge. And some people and species are better at swimming than others. Sometimes the water could be filled with sharks and piranhas, so you have to use a boat or think of some other clever way to avoid them. There are an almost infinite number of hindrances and restrictions you can imagine for crossing a body of water and I would guess there are equally many hindrances and restrictions that complicate travelling from one dimension to another, be it through a portal or not. If enough of them apply to one instance of interdimensional-travel and enough completely different ones apply to another, the two different ways might end seeming to be different processes altogether.


As for time-travel, I don't think Get It Done was an instance of that. We only ever saw that in Time Bomb (sort of) and I Will Remember You (sort of). It's probably a different thing all together. If it even really exists.


And I don't think teleportation and interdimensional-travel are related. Even though the two might both use portals.

 

[nerd4hire]

And I don't think teleportation and interdimensional-travel are related. Even though the two might both use portals.

I thought that at first too, but then I thought of D'hoffryn and the way he zaps back and forth between dimensions.

Here's one though. When you summon a demon have you in fact created the code to lift the bars between dimensions? Remember when D'hoffryn tells Willow to "give him a chant". Is it a similar function to unlocking a door? In other words have you created a portal?

 

[Allycat]

Personally, I think that in the case of D'Hoffryn, "give me a chant" should be interpreted as "give me a call", an interdimensional call (hopefully collect) and then he'll appear. Sort of like a bat-sign. I would say it's D'Hoffryn himself who reacts to that call by travelling through dimensions to get to the place the call is placed from. So I don't think calling D'Hoffryn means that the caller is creating a portal.

Anyway, maybe I was a little hasty in saying that they're not related at all. You make a good point about D'Hoffryn's zapping-technique.

However, I think that teleportation is simply a mode of travel, like by foot or by car. We've seen Holtz jump from Earth (what's our dimension called anyway?) to Quor-Toth, Angel and his drive through a portal to Pylea, and D'Hoffryn teleport to other dimension. All those modes of travel can be used interdimensionally, but (obviously) they are also valid modes of travel intradimensionally.

 

[The Chosen]

Wouldn't the canon blast thingy Voll sent through the portal when Buffy and Satsu jump through kinda count as the collateral? I just got the issue and noticed that.

Hmm...

 

[Black Eye Guy]

I think that when someone calls D'Hoffryn, they do open a portal, cuz their are similar circumstances to Willow opening the portal in Get it done, When Anya does it she traces a circle in the dust in "something Blue" Same goes for Willow in "Selfless" Willow draws a Circle with sand. Willow did this Get it done to contain the portal.

The Thing about the portal in The Gift, I would guess that it's actually wasn't fully open, just kept jumping open when stuff came out, but wasn't actually fully open, so when Buffy jumped into it, she wasn't gong through the portal!

 

[nerd4hire]

Wait...ok, if Glory opened the portal to go home and it was the big blue thing at it was travel-able, wouldn't have Buffy simply slipped from the dimension when she jumped?
- TC

Here's my best guess. This is from Weight of the World

GILES: Dimensions will ... pour into one another, uh, with no barriers to stop them. (shot of Xander and Anya listening) Reality as we know it will be destroyed, and ... chaos will reign on earth.
BUFFY: So how do we stop it?
GILES: The portal will only close once the blood is stopped ... and the only way for that to happen is, um ...

Zoom in on Giles's face as he first avoids Buffy's eyes, finally looks up at her.

GILES: Buffy, the only way is to kill Dawn.

I'm thinking the big blue light was more just a light show, because Buffy landed in this reality. She hit the ground, died, and the blood stopped.