Buffy appearing in Angel

[dan k]

In the first season of Angel we saw Buffy turn up in LA on two different occasions. Both of the episodes she turned up in were great for Bangel fans and for me just genuirely great episodes. That's why i think they missed a trick in not bringing her back.

I am aware that SMG was supposed to appear in "you're welcome" but i think about the other potential storylines that she could have played a key role in.

Could you imagine the dynamic if she turned up when Darla was back in the show? Angel's romance with Cordelia? her reaction to Connor? Spike and Angel working side by side?

The thought of those storylines involving Buffy in some capacity intriques me and makes me feel a little disappointed that we didn't get to see her reactions to these events. We saw that in "Sanctuary" yet after that nothing.

This makes me assume that Sarah wasn't interested in appearing in Angel again as i tend to believe Joss would have liked to include her in the storylines i spoke out.

Some might say that too many appearances would have taken the spotlight off Angel and the show in general but i still think they could have been handled in a light which would have made the show even better.

Your thoughts?

 

[white avenger]

I think that the writers made a special effort to have at least one crossover each season, whether the story line actually needed it or not, mainly to remind the viewers that Buffy and Angel were still supposed to have some sort of connection. (And despite what certain people might accuse me of, that is NOT an anti-Bangel statement) But Angel and Buffy started out together, so I guess that alone was a good enough reason to have an annual reunion. I think that it would have been better, however, if that annual event would have been both groups joining up to fight some sort of Big Bad (like maybe the Beast) who was too powerful for either team to beat alone, beginning on "Buffy" on Tuesday night and concluded on "Angel" the next night, giving us, in affect, a "Buffy/Angel" movie length episode each year.

 

[crazysoulless]

I think that if Buffy had been around for some of AtS S3 it would have made Angel & Cordelia "falling in love" seem even stupider. Angel was still in love with Buffy and still wanted to be with her when he ended their relationship. The reasons he left her should still apply to any other female he has romantic feelings towards. The writers admitted they made a mistake with trying to pair Angel/Cordelia together and that the reason they did it was to have a greater emotional investment when Angel killed Jasmi-Cordy in S4 but due to Charisma's pregnancy, they had Jasmi-Cordy have sex with Connor and give birth to herself and just left Cordelia in a coma unsure what to do with her. Charisma didn't know when she signed on for YW that the character of Cordelia was going to die at the end of the episode.

Angel clearly wasn't thinking of Buffy around the events of Reprise or he never would have tried to lose his soul on purpose with Darla. Angelus psychologically tormented Buffy for four months and was planning on breaking her spirit and then turning her into his vampire girlfriend. After being violated with feelings of love (IOHEFY) he changed his plans to wanting the world destroyed and killing Buffy. If Buffy had been around at all in AtS S2 I can't see Angel giving in to despair like that. He was going to kill himself in Amends because he didn't want to ever hurt Buffy again (the FE said that as long as he was alive he would end up hurting her).

I would have LOVED some interaction between Darla and Buffy. Darla was responsible for Jesse becoming a vampire. She shot at Buffy with two guns. She told Buffy's mother that she was a friend of Buffy's to get an invite into her house and then started feeding on her as a way to put a wedge between Angel/Buffy. If Angel hadn't shown up Joyce would have died. Buffy would probably hate Darla even more now for having almost lost her back then since in BtVS S5 she took care of her while she was dying of cancer. It is interesting that the episode that Buffy finds Joyce lying dead on the couch (IWMTLY/The Body) matches up with Reprise. Darla would have laughed to know that while she was screwing Angel, Buffy was mourning her dead mother.

I always wondered how Buffy would find out about Connor. It always bugged me that Cordelia, Faith, and Willow knew about Angel's SON before Buffy did and Buffy still probably doesn't even know about Connor. It is really sad when you watch Angel or The Prom and hear Angel telling a fertile human Buffy he can never give her kids when the second year of his series he knocks up his barren demon ex.

 

[Wishing Oceans]

I personally have always hated Buffy showing up on Angel, she always seemed a lot more annoying then usual when she stuck her nose where it didn't belong. 😀

Could you imagine the dynamic if she turned up when Darla was back in the show? Angel's romance with Cordelia? her reaction to Connor? Spike and Angel working side by side?

I don't imagine Buffy doing anything but creating chaos and getting in the way of things with her indignation, which makes me infinitely pleased that she DIDN'T show up to slow everything down. 🙂

 

[PrincessBuffy16]

Wasn't there no cross overs rule?

But I think it would be fun if we got to see some more Bangel action in both shows :/ I don't think they were neglected, I just wish that they made cross overs more often 🙁

 

[dan k]

I like the idea of both teams joining up together to face one evil, your almost guaranteed an awesome episode. Would be a great idea for a film aswell. Forget bringing a bunch of Marvel superheroes together Joss, just bring The Scoobies and Angel Investigations together:biggrin3:

 

[crazysoulless]

WOC, I assume you are talking about Sanctuary? Buffy had a right to be upset considering that Angel was defending someone who a few weeks prior had punched her mother in the face and sexually violated her by switching bodies against Buffy's will and screwing her boyfriend. I also believe that Buffy should have been part of Faith's rehabilitation since Faith and Buffy were the only two of their species and Buffy stated in This Years Girl that Faith was her responsibility and Faith said in Who Are You that Buffy was her only friend and the person that always tried to help her.

 

[Vengeance]

I always wished Buffy would come over during S3 when Angel and Holtz are squaring off. Buffy would've just kicked the crap out of Holtz for daring to mess with her ex.

 

[dan k]

I'am most disapppointed we didn't get to see Buffy's reaction to Cangel. I imagine it would have been similarto Angel's reaction in "Chosen". Along the lines of "its Cordelia"? Here's a question would Buffy have been more hurt with Angel being with Cordelia then she was when she saw Angel and Faith hugging in "Sanctuary"?

Also i regret not seeing Spike, Angel and Buffy in the same room after the events of "Chosen". Would it be like the "Yoko factor" where Buffy has to drag Angel and Riley apart or would Angel and Spike's new found friendship lead to some sort of conversation?

 

[crazysoulless]

If it were at the beginning of S5 I can imagine it turning into The Yoko Factor but if it were late in the season it would be more civil. I loved when Spike went from "my girl" to "our girl" in TGIQ. You could tell that Angel didn't want Spike to have Buffy and vice versa but they would both prefer the other to have her than for her to be with The Immortal. I loved how they were working together to make sure that didn't happen and seemed so close. And then at the end when they are thinking of ways they could keep Buffy from being with other men. ha ha

I think that Buffy would be extremely hurt to find out about Cangel since she never stopped loving Angel. In Forever he said he could stay in town as long as she wanted him and she said, "how's forever? Does forever work for you?" In Selfless she said "I loved him more than I will ever love anything on this earth". She would want to know why he could leave her "for her own good" but try to enter a romantic relationship with the girl who picked on her and thought they were freaks back in Sunnydale (remember she hasn't actually seen Cordy since IWRY).

 

[Wishing Oceans]

WOC, I assume you are talking about Sanctuary? Buffy had a right to be upset considering that Angel was defending someone who a few weeks prior had punched her mother in the face and sexually violated her by switching bodies against Buffy's will and screwing her boyfriend. I also believe that Buffy should have been part of Faith's rehabilitation since Faith and Buffy were the only two of their species and Buffy stated in This Years Girl that Faith was her responsibility and Faith said in Who Are You that Buffy was her only friend and the person that always tried to help her.

As for Sanctuary, I agree with Angel. It wasn't her business. 🙂 I saw it as Angel trying to help someone, and then Buffy showing up all indignant and trying to mess it all up. Always thinking that it was all about Buffy. She seemed like an invader to me. 🙂

I also don't like her in IWRY. Showing up just to tell somebody to stop showing up, then, after being all annoyed and saying that they can't be together, completely turning around and being all love-sick.

Although, my problem with Buffy in IWRY may be that I simply don't like Buffy until S7... Although I've found that she has some likable moments in S5. 😀

dan k agrees: this hatred for Buffy? where is it coming from

Hm, I'm not really sure what you mean. 🙂 In general, I don't like Buffy until S5 for many reasons. Falsely believing that she's superior to everybody else because she was handed superpowers, her horrible puns, her immaturity, etc. I never really related to Buffy until S5 (but mainly S7) and I find her to be generally irritating. In X-Overs, she seems even more annoying since one, she always seems to get in the way, and two, she doesn't have the SG to make everything more enjoyable. 🙂

Although, just to be clear, I do love Buffy with all my heart, I just find her to be quite annoying as a teen. 😀

 

[crazysoulless]

Faith was the one that made it All About Buffy. She literally tried to become Buffy by stealing her body, letting Buffy get captured, drugged, tied, and chained to be punished for Faith's crimes, and was masquarading as Buffy amongst her friends, family, and lover. That is taking the "single white female" idea to a very scary place. Remember that the last time Angel, Buffy, & Faith were in the same city Faith shot Angel with a poison arrow forcing Buffy to let Angel nearly drain her dry to save his life.

Buffy was upset in IWRY because he was stalking her for three days. She felt his presence the entire time and then when he leaves is told by Xander that he was in town. She still wanted to be with him as did he with her. They both found it difficult to be in each other's life without being together. Angel told Giles how much it hurt to "be on the outside looking in at what I can't.." Of course when Angel became human and all of the reasons that Angel left were no longer there they would be all loveydovey together.

 

[dan k]

Spike and Angel's friendship was amusing in season 5 and i also liked how they spoke about Buffy in terms of her belonging to the two of them.

In relation to Buffy i can see Wishing Oceans point in regard to Sanctuary. She was out of line to Angel not to Faith. The way she talked about Riley was just not needed but Buffy in general wasn't like that. Here was a girl who saved lives on a daily basis, gave up her own life to save her sister and had a great relationship with friends who she loved and cared deeply about.

 

[crazysoulless]

I still hate that I didn't get to see the Buffy/Angel reunion in BtVS S6/AtS S3. I would have loved an entire episode devoted to it!

I always felt like Buffy would be at least somewhat of a presence for Angel as long as he lived in Los Angeles since Buffy was born and raised in LA and lived there for sixteen years. Her entire first year as the Slayer was in LA. It was the very first place Angel saw her. It is where she went when she was mourning Angel.

 

[dan k]

Again that is an interesting theory but i don't believe she thought Angel didn't love her. The way he apologises after hitting her and the way he says "I didn't want this to happen" are both signs of him showing that he still loves her.

I think she mentions Riley because she struggles to get over Angel with Faith again. She struggled dealing with it in season 3 and she struggles with it again. She's hurt and tries to deflect the pain away from herself onto Angel. Its selfish but understandable.

It is possible though in regard to what you are saying about Buffy feeling that Angel isn't caring for her as much as she'd like. In that sense it is as if they are still in a relationship.

 

[crazysoulless]

Whenever Buffy and Angel are near each other they do seem to fall back into each other. I Will Remember You. Forever. End of Days/Chosen.

Spoiler

the Twilight arc

They did not separate the way that most couples do. They parted knowing they still wanted to be together and still loving each other. They broke up while thinking of each other as "the One". It is why Buffy's friends know not to say the "A" word and Angel's friends know not to say the "B" word because the subject of Angel and Buffy will always be painful and fall under the category of the one that got away instead of just an ex that I used to love.

 

[dan k]

Can't disagree with any of that. In regard to the topic i think those who love Bangel will wish that Buffy had appeared in Angel more often. Then again those people who thought Buffy had a bad influence on Angel will have a totally different view.

For me personally i just loved the dynamic between Buffy and Angel. I love seeing reactions to certain things hence why i love "Sanctuary" and seeing Buffy's reaction to Angel holding Faith. I love "I will remember you" because it was so emotional. Whenever the two characters were together the on screen dynamic was just so powerful.

 

[crazysoulless]

You could tell that Angel/Buffy meant a lot to Sarah and David. I think they sometimes got lost in the characters they were playing despite being such professionals. Sarah would need David to comfort her after his scenes as Angelus, David whispered "Sarah" during the I'll Never Forget scene in IWRY. They came off very couply in public which no doubt fueled the affair rumors.

While I started off as a Bangel fan I did ship her with Riley and then fell madly in love with Spuffy. I could even see her with Xander or Giles or Faith. It has always been Angel that I couldn't see with someone else since it went against his reasons for leaving Buffy in the first place. I didn't believe that he could love someone for the first time in two and a half centuries, decide to join the fight against evil for her, spend over a century in Hell and come back still in love with her as ever, dream of marrying her, experience "perfect happiness" with her, stake his sire for her, give her a Claddaugh ring, and give up his humanity for her only to fall in love and try to start a romantic relationship with someone else a mere two years later.

It always bothered me that Anne was on AtS but there was not a single acknowledgment that Buffy knew her first. She was Sister Sunshine/Chanterelle/Lily/Anne from BtVS. She chose the name Anne because it was Buffy's middle name. The apartment Buffy let her stay in was probably her first time living alone and the job Buffy helped her get was probably her first time supporting herself. The reason that she knew vampires existed were because of Lie To Me. I even bet she developed that homeless shelter for troubled teenagers as a result of what happened to her in Anne with the demon Ken sending the lost and forgotten to that demon dimension.

Lily: I'm not good at taking care of myself.
Buffy: It gets easier. It takes practice.
Lily: Can I be Anne? ("Anne" means "full of grace")

 

[Big Damn Hero]

I'm glad the crossovers were kept to a minimum. I watched angel before buffy but even after watching buffy angel is it's own show and i love that.

 

[dan k]

There's no question that David and Sarah had a really close relationship. Whether they ever were a couple well its just speculation but you have to give them credit for the number of Bangel scenes which they conveyed raw emotion superbly.

Whether in Buffy or in Angel you totally believed in Angel loving Buffy and vice versa. They looked right together and i never questioned their love for one another.

I think it is harder to identify the love in Spuffy then it was in Bangel. In Bangel the love was always just so clear, you couldn't mistake it for friendship whereas with Spuffy there were occasions where i thought does she really love him. Is this just friendship? I'am still not sure to be honest, Sarah and David's connection meant that wasn't the case with Bangel.