Buffy ep by ep; CONVERSATIONS WITH DEAD PEOPLE-a classic

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saturn5

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CONVERSATIONS WITH DEAD PEOPLE

The Good;
All of it, pretty damn amazing the whole thing. In a pretty intense and serious episode I do like Dawn's fun anchovies song and dance not to mention her marhsmallow in the microwave (love to try that but then it didn't turn out too well for her)

The Bad;
The only problems I have is that there's no Xander and that the Cassie role was so blatantly supposed to be Tara. If it is The First that visits Dawn it's actions seem remarkably tame AND it seems to be able to move stuff with it's will which it can't do later. Also why put on the big show, why not just appear to Dawn as it did to Willow and Andrew? Maybe it is Joyce but the First is somehow manipulating her and only allows it to put over what it wants Dawn to hear? If it is The First trying to mislead Dawn why does it try to get her to leave the house?

Best line;
Holden; "Who knows, maybe I'll win?"
Buffy; (almost pityingly) "No, I'm the Slayer. You're not leaving this graveyard"

Women good/men bad;
We learn that Hank cheated on Joyce and that was the reason for their divorce.

Jeez!;
Holden hitting Buffy in the face with the virgin Mary statuette. Dawn getting all cut up. Cassie/The First's description of how she imagined Willow committing suicide.

Kinky dinky;
When confessing to Holden Buffy says that during her sex with Spike she felt she deserved to be punished which explains some of the violent/S&M nature of their relationship. Buffy says she hates the way vamps equate sex, pain, death and love but then as Spike said, they are evil, they should be treading on the darkside. Looking back on her previous boyfriends Buffy observes she sure can pick them, every one a doomed romance. There were rumours at SDH that Buffy was dating a really old guy but did this mean Angel or Giles? ("Older man, very handsome, likes it when I call him daddy") Holden says he is 'chatting Buffy up'. Spike effortlessly picks a hot blonde up at the bar. Buffy refers to Spike 'taking me over completely' and 'doing such things to me'. Holden refers to guy talk in 'nailing a girl'.

Captain Subtext;
So if Spike sires his blonde after picking her up in a bar does he do the same thing with Holden? Buffy confesses she feels superior to her friends and lovers but feels guilty about it. This suggests that Faith is actually the ideal girl for her as they're equal in every way. Scott Hope, Buffy's boyfriend from season 3 has now come out of the closet which must be a relief for her as it means their break up wasn't her fault. But apparently he told everyone she was gay which given her track record with guys might be the best option for her?
Note that Jonathon and Andrew actually want to be part of the Scooby gang which Andrew at least will achieve.

Guantanamo Bay;

Scoobies to the ER;

Missing scenes;
Supposedly we were to see Xander visited by Jesse and Anya by Halfrek but they couldn't get the actors which was a great shame.

Apocalypses; 7,

Wheldon Cliches (with kind permission from Boo)

Scoobies in bondage:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 5
Will: 4
Jenny: 1
Angel: 4
Oz: 1
Faith: 3
Joyce: 1
Wes: 1
Xander; 2
Dawn; 4

Scoobies knocked out:
Buffy: 19
Giles: 12
Cordy: 6
Xander: 14
Will: 8
Jenny: 2
Angel: 6
Oz: 3
Faith: 1
Joyce: 3
Wes: 1
Anya;5
Dawn; 4
Tara; 1

Kills: Buffy kills 1 vamp
Buffy: 110 vamps, 60 demons, 6 monsters, 3 humans, 1 werewolf, 1 spirit warrior & a robot
Giles: 8 vamps, 2 demon, 1 human, 1 god.
Cordy: 3 vamps, ½ a demon
Will: 6 vamps + 3 demons +1 fawn+1 human.
Angel: 3 vamps, 1 demon, 1 human
Oz: 3 vamps, 1 zombie
Faith: 16 vamps, 5 demons, 3 humans
Xander: 6 vamps, 2 zombies, 1½ a demon,
Anya: 1 vamp and 1½ a demon
Riley; 18 vamps + 7 demons
Spike; 8 vamps and 6 demons
Buffybot; 2 vamps
Tara; 1 demon
Dawn; 1 vamp + 1 demon

Scoobies go evil:
Giles: 1
Cordy: 1
Will: 3
Jenny: 1
Angel: 1
Oz: 1
Joyce: 1
Xander: 4
Anya; 1
Dawn; 1
Buffy; 1

Alternate scoobies:
Buffy: 8
Giles: 4
Cordy: 1
Will: 5
Jenny: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 2
Joyce: 2
Xander: 4
Tara; 1
Dawn;1
Spike; 1
Anya; 2

Recurring characters killed: 13 byebye Jonathon, with us from the untransmitted pilot who came good in the end.
Jesse, Flutie, Jenny, Kendra, Larry, Snyder, Professor Walsh, Forrest, McNamara, Joyce, Katrina, Tara, Jonathon

Sunnydale deaths; Jonathon and Spike's victim
101

Total number of scoobies: 6,
Xander, Buffy, Dawn, Willow, Anya, Spike

Xander demon magnet: 5(6?)
Preying Mantis Lady, Inca Mummy Girl, Drusilla, VampWillow, Anya (arguably Buffy & Faith with their demon essences?), Dracula?

Scoobies shot:
Giles: 2
Angel: 3
Oz: 4
Riley; 1
Buffy; 1
Tara; 1

Notches on Scooby bedpost:
Giles: 2; Joyce & Olivia, possibly Jenny and 3xDraccy babes?
Cordy: 1?
Buffy: 4 confirmed; Angel, Parker, Riley, Spike. 2 possible, Dracula+RJ(?)
Angel: 1;Buffy
Joyce: 1;Giles, 2 possible, Ted and Dracula(?)
Oz: 3; Groupie, Willow & Verucca
Faith:2 ;Xander, Riley
Xander: 2; Faith, Anya
Willow: 2;Oz and Tara
Riley; 3; Buffy, Sandy and unnamed vampwhore
Spike; 2 Buffy and Anya
Anya; 2 Spike and Xander

Dawn in peril; 13 once again but this time she deals with it herself

Dawn the bashful virgin; 9

What the fanficcers thought;
Loads of fic where Joyce's real ghost visits both Dawn and Buffy, how wonderful if we could see the mother we loved and lost again if only for a minute. Interesting to see Dawn in Ash from Evil Dead mode, once read a fic where Tara's family are actually Texas Chainsaw Massacre types and kill everyone in the season 5 Scoobies except for Tara, Riley, Willow and Dawn. However when Tara and Willow ressurect Buffy she finds that Dawn has now turned into a combination of Ash/Lara Croft (but still has both hands). Meanwhile Faith defeated the First and shared her power with the Potentials but was presumed to have perished in the collapsing Hellmouth. But whose is that gorgeous female hand holding a scythe breaking the surface at the Sunnydale crater...?

Questions and observations;
I take it that the Dartmouth Holden refers to is a college in the US rather than the town in Devon? By the commentary we know that it isn't really Joyce who visits Dawn but her warning that Buffy wouldn't choose Dawn in the end turns out to be prophetic. Dawn's battle with The First(?) references The Excorcist, Die Hard (glass in feet), The Shining, The Amityville Horror, Poltergeist, Highlander and especially the Evil Dead films . Andrew says he found Klingon easier to learn than Spanish but then as an artificial language it would be simpler. 'Insane troll logic' again. Kit from 'Lessons' reccurs although offscreen. Someone in the Summer's house likes Mariarchi music as it was also on their radio in 'Quelled'. Lovely music at the Bronze, is that the same band as in Dopplegangland? Is Jason Wheeler the guy who won the class clown award in The Prom? Holden has studied 2 years of Tae-Kwan-Do which is SMG's martial art. Buffy refuses to commit on the God question despite the effects of crosses and holy water on vamps. Considering how much real horror there is in Dawn's life you'd wonder that she watches a horror film? JE refers disparagingly to Charmed on the commentary. Holden refers to the SD mental hospital which was presumably built after season 5.
Both Spike and his date smoke in a bar which I didn't think you could do in California. Buffy still suffers from the Slayer deathwish to a degree to judge from some of the things she says.
How old is Buffy? Holden says she's 21 but if she's 15 in season 1 surely she's 22/23 now? The girl Spike picks up in the bar reminds me a lot of Christina Applegate. Holden seems to be a remarkably human vampire but then people sired by Spike and Dru always seem to be. So this was filmed in a real graveyard? I'm not sure I'd like my loved one's grave used as a prop in a TV series, especially with Holden sitting on it? Dawn can do magic, living with Tara and Willow all those years must have paid off.
Apparently they had to cut 9 minutes off this ep. WHY can't we have Buffy Special Edition DVDs with all this footage restored and commentaries for all the eps?

Marks out of 10; 9/10, only failing to be 10/10 due to no Xander and no Tara. This one I watched 4 times, twice with the commentary.
 
This episode is purely amazing. Everything about it was awesome, especially Holden and Buffy's scenes in the graveyard. Not only are they funny, but we learn a LOT about what goes through Buffy's mind and how she feels about her loved ones.
I always thought it was really Joyce but now I'm sad to know it's not. Awww... And YAY for Dawn, being the big bad-ass who refuses to back down. 🙂
I only wish there had been more Xander. And who would have appeared to him- Jenny or Jesse?
 
HisMrs said:
This episode is purely amazing. Everything about it was awesome, especially Holden and Buffy's scenes in the graveyard. Not only are they funny, but we learn a LOT about what goes through Buffy's mind and how she feels about her loved ones.
I always thought it was really Joyce but now I'm sad to know it's not. Awww... And YAY for Dawn, being the big bad-ass who refuses to back down. 🙂
I only wish there had been more Xander. And who would have appeared to him- Jenny or Jesse?
Click to expand...

If I had my way it would be Jesse appears to Xander, Halfyrek to Anya and Jenny to Giles
 
I like this episode a lot. I wondered why they had Cassie come to Willow, instead of Tara. Was the actress not interested in reprising the role? I assumed it was something like that. Can you imagine the emotional impact if it had been Tara? Very sad.

I've never understood what happened with Dawn. Why the mess and the poltergeist-ish behavior when like you said, the First shouldn't have been able to do those things.
 
Buffy wasn't 15 in Season 1, she had just turned 16 before the show started.

I like this episode. I wish we could've seen Jesse and Xander. It would've been interesting to know some more of their history,
and just how close he, Xander, and Willow were. 🙂
 
HisMrs said:
Yeah, good point... But Halfrek wasn't dead yet when this ep aired, was she??
Click to expand...

Yes she was, D'Hoffryn kills her back in Selfless. Apparently Amber didn't want to come back as Tara because she didn't want Tara's last scenes to be as The First Evil
 
saturn5 said:
Yes she was, D'Hoffryn kills her back in Selfless. Apparently Amber didn't want to come back as Tara because she didn't want Tara's last scenes to be as The First Evil
Click to expand...

That's lame. As it is her last scene is dying of a bullet wound. C'mon!
 
^ Lol, that's not exactly right. Amber said she didn't want Tillow fans to be upset when they revealed it's not Tara. Especially, the evil laugh scene. Imagine it's Tara who laughed in Willow face and disappear. *sadness*

I love this ep too. Such a shame there's no Xander. I felt sad when Jonathan died. I always think he shouldn't have come back after Superstar. It would have been the best exit for him, IMO.

Kudos for Dawn. She's so tough. Her mouth is bleeding and she kept chanting. 😀 Buffy and Holden conversation is great too. It's cool that eventually, Buffy always stakes the vamps.

saturn5 said:
But apparently he told everyone she was gay which given her track record with guys might be the best option for her?
Click to expand...

Of course, he means Faith. She always hanged out with her in S3. And that Faith/Scott scene in Homecoming might got Scott pissed a lot. 😉
 
GrrArghx3 said:
Buffy wasn't 15 in Season 1, she had just turned 16 before the show started.
Click to expand...
Of course, that would make the 21 wrong then. saturn's math was off in the opening post (S7 is six, not seven, years after S1 😉 ). So if she had been 15 in S1, 21 would have been right here...

Then again, S1 covered just half a year of "real time" (you could say it's the "second half" of a season of which no first half exists...), while the other seasons each covered a full year. If this ep here is a few weeks before Buffy's birthday that year, 21-turning-22 again works out right.
 
The ep that didn't include Xander. The writer jerks.


Conversation with Dead People

This episode has a very interesting concept. I loved Dawn the most in this ep. I dunno I'm feeling the Dawn love. Can you blame me? "Anchovies! Anchovies! You're so delicious. I like you better than all the other fishes!" (I thought her playing with the crossbow was a little exaggerated.) Hmm maybe. I guess they were trying hard to show us the typical unsupervised teen behavior. However, I LOVED when she was dancing in kitchen. That girl is hot! (Hmmm Wanya jokes, complementing Buffy's short skirt, and now you think Dawn is hot"¦ should I be worried?)

Willow studying in the library. I'm glad that we see some normal college stuff now. I love that. I actually sympathize with her now more than when she meets the First"¦. Look at the many yellow marking!! I'll kill myself before I memorize all that!

Cassie comes in and Willow has never met her, but somehow there's a connection. Let's buy that for the poor writers since they weren't able to bring Tara back. Anyway, they talk, and I want *Tara* as The First! I want Tara!! Willow has never met Cassie for God's sake!

Dawn eating, on the phone and watching a movie. I do that all the time.

Cut to Buffy. What?!! No! I want Dawn! She's more interesting and her scenes are creepy! Come back Dawn! Come back!

*pouts* Can I skip Buffy's scenes? I'm the only one who's not that fond of that vamp she's hanging with. (I like him. He's funny.) That's why I said I'm the *only* one.

Dawn! Dawn! (What is it in Dawn you find interesting?) A normal girl having creepy stuff happening to her in her own home? That's interesting. (Huh, go watch horror movies) You go watch that, now, shhhh, Dawn. Oh God, that's really scary. *stares at her own house, hoping it won't go against her all of a sudden* I wonder how the First that can't touch a thing move stuff in Dawn's house.

Urgh. Buffy and vamp. It's interesting how Buffy only pours her heart out to vamps instead of 'people' or her friends. Strange slayer indeed.

Poor Dawn. I actually had goose pumps when she figured it was her mom. Best scenes in this ep are Dawns'. (*shakes head*) I'm sorry if a person should be a slayer or a witch for you to find interesting. (Did I say anything?) Well, you don't like the Dawn scenes! (Maybe 'cause I wanted to see Anya meeting the First, especially with her best friend just dying the ep before this one.) They thought about it, but Emma was busy filming a movie.

Jonathan and Andrew acting geeky. Sniff. I'm gonna miss Jonathan.

Aww! Spike! *Finally* a male Scooby. This show needs more men. Grrr. Silent Spike again. TALK!!!

Urgh, a talk about Buffy's relationships. Didn't we suffer enough? (Yeah, this scene does get boring. You know, Anya meeting The First would have been way more interesting than this little Buffy plot.) Totally.

The only thing I liked about Buffy's conversation with this guy is when she admitted she's superior to her friends. Because she really, really is.

What really really bugs me is Buffy saying that she had done things in S6 that her friends won't understand. Huh. What did she do? Whore herself to Spike? News flash, Xanya was just about sex when it started, there was no love there, just two people using each other for different reasons. So Xander can understand, not to mention how close she and Xander are in S7. She could have talked to him. But Buffy prefers talking to strangers instead of her friends. So people, keep that in mind. Buffy loves cutting herself off, she's the first to cause the separation of the Scoobies.

What else her friends can't understand? Her treating Spike like shit? Xander treated Spike like shit. In the beginning of his relationship with Anya, he was using her for sex and company. So stop with the shit Buffy, they can understand, be honest, and say you *don't* want to talk to them because you love the headache.

Okay, Jonathan made me cry, he really did. He's just so sweet. He wonders about the students of high school, how much he misses talking to them, he's a nice guy, he's just a sweetheart. I love Jonathan. I'd be his best friend if I were there. But then comes that idiot Andrew!!! "You know what? They don't want to talk to you, all those people you just mentioned. Not one of them is sitting around going, 'I wonder what Jonathan is up to right now.' Not one of them cares about you." Go to hell, Andrew!

"Well, I still care about them. That's why I'm here." Aww. Jonathan.

Anyway, we discover that *gasp* Spike sired Holden. Spike later kills his blonde date. But"¦ what about the chip? (This ep is great.) I agree. Best stuff are the Dawn ones. ("¦ "¦ I guess you're right.) Yessss! And you know what's funny? (What?) The whole Dawn plot for this ep is so useless. *bitter laugh*

This episode is solid. It's very amazing. The song, the shifting between the scenes, the creepiness. But I didn't like Holden, so"¦

There's something missing in this ep though. It doesn't feel like Buffy without it. (Well, sweetie, you have to get used to that, 'cause he'll be missing for the entire season.) I'm gonna miss him. (Me too.)

9.5/10
 
One of my favourite episodes. And the scene/scenes between Buffy and Holden one of my absolute favourites in the whole show for sure. The impact if it had been Tara and not Cassie with Willow had been so much bigger but as the big Tillow lover I am I'm not really sure how I'd taken it. So I'm not complaining too much about Amber not wanting to play the part.
 
I love this episode. It's my favorite from s7. The scenes between Willow & Cassie are crazy. The girl that plays Cassie is an amazing actress...I don't usually say this but I would've loved to see her be a regular. I really liked her!!! Also the song "Blue" by Angie Hart is brilliant in this episode, the way it is edited in at the beginning & at the end. Also the scenes with Dawn battling the First make this episode one of the scariest in a long time. It actually creeps me out. I'd give this ep 10 out of 10...another Buffy classic.
 
I started to lose my sympathy for Buffy in this episode when they were talking about her superiority complex. I generally liked it though, even her scenes. Holden was funny. I didn't realize until recently that he went on to play Knox (that dick) on Angel. (I didn't recognize him or remember what he looked like or something.)

I'm sorta glad Amber Benson didn't come back...But I'm not sure why Azura Skye was the one who filled in. I don't remember "Help" so well. =\ The scenes were creepy, especially when it started to unravel.

I wish Xander had a section...or Giles.


"Okay, that is beyond evil. That's insane troll logic." 😀
 
This is one of the only episodes of season 7 that I've really liked so far. The writing was so so good. And for the first time since I was a kid, Buffy genuinely creeped me out with the whole Dawn scene and the mom and that thing and and I was watching it alone at 1 in the morning and it was scary =( Ick ick ick!

I've heard explanations for why Amber Benson didn't come back, but I think it would have been so much better if she had. Having Azura Skye, while she is quite awesome, it was just like....you know, I was with Willow, I didn't get WHY. They didn't come up with a good enough excuse for her absence, it was just like "Well...she CAN'T, okay? God, get over it."

But yeah, awesome, creepy episode, first in awhile.
 
I didn't really like this episode at first simply because, like mentioned before, Xander was absent and Tara was so obviously supposed to be the one talking to Willow.
After the second or third time watching, I definitely enjoyed it more.

I respect Amber Benson's decission not to reprise her role as Tara, and understand why she didn't want to return, but I still think the episode would have been much more powerful if she had been in it.
I mean, come on, Cassie? Don't get me wrong, I love Azura Skye, but her and Willow didn't even meet! Plenty of people have died on Buffy, couldn't they have found someone that actually interacted with Willow to bring back?

And, Blue by Angie Hart = all time favorite song from BtVS 😀
 
I honestly think this was easily the best episode of Season 7, and among the best from the series. The great cinematic opening complete with kick ass song, the penetrating character insights, the hilarious dialogue ... If Season 7 had kept up the pace set by CWDP it would have been the best season ever.

Sadly, they never regained the momentum. The First became a toned down, monotonous and boorish villain after his stellar appearance here, taking a back seat to uber-vamps and Caleb.
 
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