Buffy+Faith= ?

doppelgänger said:
What does Faith have to do to earn her forgivness? Sleep with her? It sure worked for Spike...
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As popular as the idea might be...

Faith seems to think she has to die.

Hey, worked for Jenny.

Even after getting over the direct suicide-by-cop approach she tried twice (Albeit for two different reasons) over in LA with Angel, Faith still exhibits an unnatural recklessness when she gets to Sunnydale. I don't wanna repeat too much of what I said in the Socrates' Eyes thread, but Faith's apparently subservient attitude to Buffy when she gets to Sunnydale strikes me as hinting that Faith is still indirectly trying to get herself killed. She figures if she does it on Buffy's say so, rather than just picking a fight with a savage vampire wielding a pump action shotgun while she's doped, Buffy will have to sit up and listen. It's the perfect solution: Neither girl will have to deal with Faith any more...

Or, you know, Buffy could say "Hey, we're square" and Faith's big ol' martyr complex could finally be laid to rest. But Summers has trouble with that, as we've seen.

"It must be the bestest feeling"

😀 Stupid rep addiction.... For what it's worth I can't rep you either...
 
doppelgänger said:
I forgot to mention that this is a very interesting, not to mention very good, statement. I mean, you've gotta love Faith. She's the reason I started watching BtVS.
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The thing is I never used to love Faith. I've always like her, a lot, I thought she was really cool an' all... And I felt sorry for her because of the way Buffy (and her gang) treats her. But now I've really started to understand Faith. I always just liked Willow cause she's a lot like me and I still think she's the best.. But I don't think I understood what an complicated and real and interesting character Faith is.
(Ok I get that you just think I've been stupid not to realize this before.. But as I said I didn't actually watch most parts of the third season until quite reseantly..)
Anyway I think I'll have to re-watch some of the Faith episodes now that I've got my new found love for Faith.. I'll probably start analysing everything about her and be really depressed cause I'll realize how lonely she is and how sorry I feel for her..
 
I've always felt sorry for Faith. . . I mean, she was always the slayer that wasn't really appreciated because Buffy was there first. Giles never treated Faith as he did Buffy because Buffy was "his slayer", and Willow and Xander always treated Buffy better, because she was Buffy. Faith didn't really have anyone, and I always felt bad for her.

But, I started to feel less bad for Faith in "Consequences"; just because she didn't really want to fess up for what she did, and deal with the death like Buffy did.

The only thing that I didn't like, was how no matter what, Buffy tried to be Faith's friend [or, okay, not no matter what, I take that back -- she tried to be her friend before Faith went all, evil, lol.] and Faith kind of regected her friendship.

However, I felt really sorry for her again in "Who Are You" when Buffy was trying to get her body back, and Faith kept saying she couldn't go back into her.

And in "Sanctuary" I was much more of a Faith liker than a Buffy one. . . ouch, Buffy treated Faith like TOTAL crap there. I mean, I can understand, 'cause of everything she'd been through, but when she was trying to apologize and Buffy just let out all her anger. . . eeep, I felt totally bad for Faith.

But I've never liked how Buffy was considered to be the better slayer; the chosen "one", I mean, Faith was JUST as much of a slayer as Buffy even if she wasn't in Sunnydale when she was.

Yeesh, lol.

But! Thanks for the thread and the GREAT opinions here, guys!
 
J
Jill_Valentine
"Who are You?" changed her for me too...:D
Hmmmmm.. I was just thinking... (look out!)...from Faith's POV, unless she really is content now, empowering the Potentials may be the most devastating event since the death of Alan Finch... Not only is she still sharing her Slayerness, (With even more people than before) now she'll never get her chance to be the one and only. For Faith it could mean another identity crisis...
 
She did say something like "I'm not in-charge-girl" in one episode (empty places?) didn't she? She's clearly not confortable with being the leader. Not like Buffy who absolutely LOVES to be in charge. That's why they kicked her out in that eppy.
 
Faith is still handling that situation much better than Buffy does. With the potentials I mean. I know they weren't supposed to become slayers in the beginning, they'd never even thought about that, but they were still "the next generation".. And Faith got along with them fine but Buffy didn't. Probably cause Faith has more in common with them, since Buffy is the "real" slayer to her too.. But I think it's great of Faith to see that they have somthing in common.. That they are all somewhat working for Buffy, or at least, they'll never be as strong and powerful as Buffy.. Although Faith is of course much more powerful than the potentials, but she doesn't feel necessary to tell them that all the time..
I know Faith didn't want to be in charge (just like doppelgänger wrote), but she still must have found it hard to let Buffy decide over her..
(Now it almost sounds like I don't like Buffy. And I didn't use to like her, but I've started liking her too, cause I feel really sorry for her too..)
 
eponinethen said:
Faith is still handling that situation much better than Buffy does. With the potentials I mean. I know they weren't supposed to become slayers in the beginning, they'd never even thought about that, but they were still "the next generation".. And Faith got along with them fine but Buffy didn't. Probably cause Faith has more in common with them, since Buffy is the "real" slayer to her too.. But I think it's great of Faith to see that they have somthing in common.. That they are all somewhat working for Buffy, or at least, they'll never be as strong and powerful as Buffy.. Although Faith is of course much more powerful than the potentials, but she doesn't feel necessary to tell them that all the time..
I know Faith didn't want to be in charge (just like doppelgänger wrote), but she still must have found it hard to let Buffy decide over her..
(Now it almost sounds like I don't like Buffy. And I didn't use to like her, but I've started liking her too, cause I feel really sorry for her too..)
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I agree.
Buffy has some big attitude problems at times. Especially with being self-righteous at ALL times. I don't think she handled the potentials that well (even though they were a pack of whiney teenage girls), she was too much in charge-girl for it to function smoothly. But, being 'the slayer', she won anyway. Lucky her.
And just for the record, I don't dislike Buffy either. It's just that attitude of hers... gets on my nervs.

But one thing I don't get is why Buffy's stuck on that thing about her being 'the chosen one' or why not 'the original slayer' or maybe 'the real slayer' or what-ever.
Isn't Faith just as chosen as she is?
When Buffy died the first time, Kendra was called and that made her the slayer, not Buffy. When Kendra died, Faith was called and she was the slayer, not Buffy.
Buffy died then a second time but Faith never died. She was in jail and before that in a coma.
So, shouldn't Faith be 'the chosen one' or all those other corny titles? What's Buffy's problem with that anyway?
Yes, I'm frustrated .
 
It's argued by some people that Faith isn't as much a Slayer as Buffy is, that Faith is a glitch. I think it's Nerd4Hire that argues most passionately (and I might add, quite well) that the Slayer line never left Buffy, it just sort of got split.

Faith wasn't, it's worth mentioning, finally introduced as Faith the Vampire Slayer until S4 of Angel.

Personally, I do think she's just as much a Slayer. Ockams Razor - it's the simplest explanation. So my thinking is that Buffy is referred to as the Slayer, the chosen one, simply for convenience' sake. Writers, characters and audience are used to it. A lot of Pro-Buffyites tend to prefer to think of her as a superior hero to Faith, simply because they like her more and because of Faith's whole... y'know... murdering thing. Personally, I view them ( at the end of S7) as very different equals, hero wise. I just like Faith more.
 
doppelgänger said:
I agree.
Buffy has some big attitude problems at times. Especially with being self-righteous at ALL times. I don't think she handled the potentials that well (even though they were a pack of whiney teenage girls), she was too much in charge-girl for it to function smoothly. But, being 'the slayer', she won anyway. Lucky her.
And just for the record, I don't dislike Buffy either. It's just that attitude of hers... gets on my nervs.

But one thing I don't get is why Buffy's stuck on that thing about her being 'the chosen one' or why not 'the original slayer' or maybe 'the real slayer' or what-ever.
Isn't Faith just as chosen as she is?
When Buffy died the first time, Kendra was called and that made her the slayer, not Buffy. When Kendra died, Faith was called and she was the slayer, not Buffy.
Buffy died then a second time but Faith never died. She was in jail and before that in a coma.
So, shouldn't Faith be 'the chosen one' or all those other corny titles? What's Buffy's problem with that anyway?
Yes, I'm frustrated .
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Faith is the "real Chosen One". She is. But she has never taken the responsibility. Not that I think Buffy would've given it away easily, the "slayer in charge" thing, when Faith first showed up.. But, that's when Faith had her chance, after all that she's done, she can't really come back and say "sorry for being evil for a while, I want to be in charge of the fighting of evil now". Unfortunately.. but I do get that Buffy is the in charge one..
 
I just watched Faith, Hope and Trick.. And I just.. Faith. Faith actually shows fear. Shen Buffy mentions Kakistos.. Not only is faith terrified, but she shows Buffy how scared she is of this vampire. She says she can handle the situation and that she doesn't need Buffy and all that, but she's still honest about the fact that Kakistos really terrifies her.
She's so much Faith in this episode, but I still feel.. really uncomfortable when Faith is frightened and Buffy knows what to do, Buffy saves them both. Faith is the one who's being really self-confident and sure about everything in the beginning of the episode, but Buffy is the best slayer in the end.. Is their relationship made here..? What they both "realize" in this episode, is that the thing that made Buffy the real slayer and Faith.. something else..? Is everything decided now? I know their relationship develops a lot, they become good friends for a while, but I'm talking about the slayer thing, the in charge thing..
(Not that I haven't seen this episode before.. I was just.. bothered.. I don't know.)
 
elmo said:
Faith + Buffy = Run like hell!
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why? sorry, for not popping up, but y'all scare me with the brainage. 🙁 i dont have Anything useful to contribute to the thread..


fuffy thread yay....but..smart ppl. drats. i can't compete. 🙁

but..it is complex and life being life they'd never get a chance to sit down and work it out, and figure it out well enough for anything, there were a lot of unresolved things and circumstances that changed and affected so much stuff.


yea..thats..the extent of my brain workage lately. 🙁
 
Re: Faith, Hope and Trick... You might be right. It might be the start of Faith's emotional dependence on Buffy. But, it could equally be viewed as Faith's own Prophecy Girl. It did, after all, take Xander to get Buffy alive long enough to kill the Master...
 
Jill_Valentine said:
Re: Faith, Hope and Trick... You might be right. It might be the start of Faith's emotional dependence on Buffy. But, it could equally be viewed as Faith's own Prophecy Girl. It did, after all, take Xander to get Buffy alive long enough to kill the Master...
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You're right. I'm not saying that Faith being scared and Buffy saving everything is all there is to this episode. She did face her fears and she was the one to kill Kakistos. But I still sort of think this is where it starts.. Xander saving Buffy's life, before she killed the Master, must have made Buffy realize she really needed her friends, that they could really help her although they haven't got any super powers (one of the many times she realizes that). But since Buffy and Faith aren't exactly friends in this episode, I think this defines the way in which their relationship is developing.. I think that if it would've been the other way around, Faith saving them both and knowing what to do, maybe Buffy would have started respecting Faith in another way.. (But then Buffy is a very complicated person so maybe that would've made her jealous and not liking Faith, I don't know.. (?))
 
Re:

Okay, so at this point I can't really shed any new light on this subject. The angles have pretty much been covered- so bare with me!
I think there was most definately attraction, if not sexual tension between to two slayers at certain points through the seasons. For example "Bad Girls", "Enemies", and more so in the fight scene ending "Graduation Day Pt1." I guess in a sense it's in the eye of the beholder. However YOU see it. Joss didn't make the attraction hellishly obvious, however he put it there to be seen. I think a Fuffy relationship would've very much resemled Spuffy in a sense. Hot stuff, baby! :tongue05:
 
faiths5x5 said:
why?
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Why run like hell? Cos you mix those two together and you get yourself a killer slayer that's why. I'm sorry for not really contributing to the thread, I just saw the title and thought "Jeez, mix those two together and you have a nuclear bomb just waiting to go off and kill everything in it's wake."! It's just dancing with death because Buffy and Faith are so different and yet so alike. Faith shows her love for the kill whereas Buffy just acts responcible. Really she does love the kill as much as Faith. So if you mix the 2 together you will get 2 killer slayers.
 
Jill_Valentine said:
I might be repeating some of what I said in the Sexuality in the Buffyverse thread, or I might have just thought it really hard, I'm not sure anymore but...
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This is an amazing thread. I'd like to post, but now I gotta deal with the thoughts you've started first...

Jill, where is this thread? I'd like to read it, but I can't seem to find it...post a link if you can, please!
 
Faith+Buffy = A potential (yet unexplored) semi-kinky relationship and or one hell of a fight.

Though as you know where I stand on the whole Buffy vs. Faith in work ethic, general ethic, fighting skill and power.

Faith was like the little sister Slayer. Her she is newly called and all, then she meets Buffy, the super Slayer whos been doin her job for 3 years and faced Apocalypses.

You can immediately see signs of jealousy and as mentioned previously, as much as Faith loves the fight, shes not careful.

A jealous and careless Slayer is not always good.

And as we've agreed before:

Faith - Buffy = A better Faith.

Of course

Buffy - Faith = Maybe she would be a little winded up, but she wouldn't have had all the drama in S3 and S4.
 
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