Buffy-fans vs Twilight-fans: Why the hate?

[Bob]

i haven't read the books, only saw the movie for Twilight and i really enjoyed it! i would go and see the next one when it comes out, but in the end, BUFFY RULES!!!... (lol, sorry got hyper 😛)
its nice to see another movie/series out there about the vampires side of the story...

 

[Amicelli]

On my opinon Twilight and Buffy have nothing in common, though the fact that in both films are vampires. But even they are completly different. The first is a romace and Buffy contains everything (because it is no short film) and much action

 

[Fusions2]

On my opinon Twilight and Buffy have nothing in common, though the fact that in both films are vampires. But even they are completly different. The first is a romace and Buffy contains everything (because it is no short film) and much action

I agree with that completely. I've never seen Twilight but I would watch it just to see what its like compared to Buffy. Of course I'll probably favour Buffy more as I've known and loved it for years and Twilight I only heard about a few months ago. In ways both Twilight and Buffy have pro's and con's which is always going to spark rivalry between the hardcore fans. Look at what happens when you mention Charmed on here, some fans can't stand the show, its just the same as its both to do with the supernatural world.

 

[Uncle Rory]

In the early days of Rock and Roll (1954 to 58) Elvis was the coolest thing happening. But there were these other goofuses like Pat Boone and Ricky Nelson that would cover Elvis' songs even before Elvis' version ran it's full course on the radio. These songs watered down the brilliance of this new music, made it bland and palatable and less threatening. An apt metaphor for Buffy vs. Twilight.

Twilight is PLAGARISM, a cheap knock off, a copy, plain and simple whereas Buffy and Angel are tributes to the Vampire genre in general and honor the great works of literature and film or TV that came before. Buffy WAS NOT a show created for ADULTS as another poster has stated. The demographic was about if not exactly the same...... it's just that the core audience grew up since the show started. (kids seem to get stupider each generation - the Buffy generation were listening to Radiohead - Twilighters? Jonas Brothers) And maybe over the years the buffy fans have read a few classic horror novels - Dracula, Interview with the Vampire etc, seen a few classic Horror movies like Nosferatu etc. etc. and realize that Buffy continues the Vampire tradition with it's own take on it. (a completely viable and honorable way to keep Vampire mythology going - after all, imitation is the highest form of flattery)

As I have maybe mentioned in previous posts - Joss obviously took his cues from those that went before him - particularly from the 1960's Gothic Soap Opera "Dark Shadows" which had an Angel character - a vampire in love. Taking into consideration that so few people remember this show or have ever seen it - no prob.

But the TWILIGHT creator isn't carrying on VAMPIRE lore or mythology - she's carrying on Buffyverse lore and Angel mythology in a thinly disguise rip off. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME. (and so are all those other shows with GOOD GUY VAMPIRES) They suck in the worst way and lack originallity which is the real element that will decide which property will endure - stand the test of time and become a classic.

Add to that the fact (my prediction here after seeing the TWILIGHT) it seems that the whole Vampire and Werewolf mythology is going to become part of Native Indian mythology in the sequel. My one eighth Indian heritage is insulted to the MAX. YUCH.

Remember Episode 1 season 6 - the wuss Vampire with the Hanson T shirt? He was COOLER than Edward Cullins. (again more Plagarism - the Vampire from Dark Shadows was named Barnabas Collins) Ending post now - must go puke.

Uncle Rory

 

[sibby]

I have read Twilight and love them!
Twilight is amazing XD! And also im A massive robert fan! since harry potter 4 so XD

 

[Uncle Rory]

Relic agrees: The cullins/collins thing could have been a tribute, maybe? From what I've heard Twilight tries to be more like Dark Shadows than Buffy (sans flippy fight scene action)

I actually watched Dark Shadows during it's original run back in the 60's. (I was like 3 years old and every time my mom would leave me alone I'd switch to channel to it, it always gave me nightmares but I loved it anyway) Then last year I had the chance to download about 80 hours of it from Stage 6.

I have a real hard time believing that Twilight is in any way, shape or form influenced by Dark Shadows. Buffy, fight scenes aside has a distinct Dark Shadows tone. Actually, there were two Dark Shadows series and two movies. The photography in Buffy and especially later in Angel was very reminicent of the second Dark Shadows series.

I also don't believe that it is possible to RIP OFF and HONOR at the same time.

As I said in my first post, Joss updated some ideas from Dark Shadows but he did it in his own way. Did Twilight's writer just accidently hit on the same inspiration and think to herself, "I wonder if another Vampire in Love style story like Dark Shadows would work?" NO! There was no risk or vision. She knew it was going to work because AT THE MOMENT SHE WROTE THE STORY IT WAS WORKING ON BUFFY. As a Buffy fan, (or for example if I was one of the writers) I would be not only furious but I would be looking for a good lawyers - I'd be surprised if they didn't consult one at some point. This is worst than "I want a new drug" vs. "Ghostbusters."

The fact that the first Buffy movie BOMBED and even within the Buffy fanbase is barely mentioned due to the REEK factor to me only shows that some very brilliant people saw a potential and worked it into something special.

Final Metaphor - Buffy = Baking a chocolate cake from Scratch throwing in all kinds of neat ingredients from all over the place. Swiss Chocolate, fudge from the local church bakesale etc. etc.

Twilight = Frozen Sarah Lee chocolate cake from the local grocery store. Looks like the same thing, tastes somewhat similar but it's still just COLD.

Uncle Rory

PS. I am now OFFICIALLY running for the President of the WE HATE TWILIGHT club.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v375/blackmetalkilla/TwilightSucks.jpg

 

[Bluebird]

Buffy isn't really about vampires, and neither is Twilight I suppose. There's not really much to compare them with. Twilight just feels very shallow, and the writing is just bad. I mean, Joss Whedon is a master storyteller. Stephanie Meyer isn't.

Me hating Twilight has nothing to do with me being a Buffy fan. It's to do with me being a fan of good storytelling. 😉

 

[Relic]

I'll have to take your word on the shallowness of Twilight, Uncle Rory, I've never seen nor read it. I generally like my vampires angry and bitey. (So I'll likely not watch it, less Ed pulls an Angelus)

Thing is I remember watching dark shadows as a kid when we got UHF out in the sticks...it was pretty shallow too. Maybe I'm just not remebering it fondly because it was always a lead in to thriller theater and I was a teenager eager for monsters over drama or at least something scary and without the corny music.

I think Buffy is a thing onto itself, I see it as more pop culture...sure it has elements of 'Goth' - but frankly even that is light, as it has a pretty watered down horror element to it, but I don't see the comparison to dark shadows at all. Maybe Joss and crew did such a good job making it theri own, the relation is just not obvious.

Maybe I need to watch it again, maybe I'll appreciate it more, but memory can't connect any dots....maybe I just saw all the bad episodes.

Long live Basil.

 

[Kean]

I skimmed over this thread but like many mentioned I posted my feelings on Twilight in the Twilight thread.

I don't hate Twilight because I love Buffy.

I hate Twilight because it is complete and utter tripe.

Alot of people argue it is aimed at a younger audience than Buffy, pfft! So what? Another demographic shouldn't mean it is dumbed down and anyway Buffy had the same demographic..young, teenage girls. It was just that it was so good that everyone else joined in. Also, because Twilight is aimed at tweens and teens all the more reason to write a strong female character? These are incredibly impressionable people and they need a decent role model whose world doesn't begin with Prada and end with Gucci. Instead these millions of young girls are reading about a twit who makes Paris Hilton look like Hillary Clinton. She sulks and whines (All.The.Bloody.Time.), she has NO personality (which apparently is super awesome!). When she meets this plank of wood Edward she gives up any meagre semblence of a life or personality she did have to be 'his'. Her life, her thoughts, her EVERYTHING is defined by him!

They are freakishly obssessed with each other and this is what is being sold as a healthy relationship? As love? Give me a break.

Then we have the actual writing.

I am sad. Edward does not like me. I hate my life.

Someone please gouge my eyes out so I don't have to read this SHITE any longer! And this...THIS is what young girls are being told is great literature!!

So to sum up, I hate Twilight becuase it is TERRIBLE. Buffy doesn't even come into it.

 

[JenniferAlice]

It's strange how literature moves along with the times. Or is it?
Attitudes of young women today are generally disturbing.
I want to go back to the old days of Dickens. I like his world.

 

[Blondie Bear]

^ Poo on Dickens. I want to live in a Jane Austen novel.

 

[Relic]

Don't go back to far, you'll end up with shakespear...his world is not too different than ours.

I'm fond of Stan Lee, myself.

 

[Kean]

Relic agrees: I can't coment on the movie Kean, aint watched it, but as far as being defined by the other, Romeo and Juliet, though by no means a helathy relationship, is often taught in schools to teens because it's considered awesome.

Romeo and Juliet had consequences though, there was a lesson to be learned.

Twilight is pathetic dribble.

I have read fan fiction that is light-years ahead of it.

 

[Tranquillity]

I love Buffy and I enjoy Twilight - I've read all the books - really quite enjoyed the first three, thought the final one was a travesty and still can't believe it actually got published. They are certainly not 'great literature' and should certainly be read critically, particularly as they are aimed at a teenage audience. Once I read Breaking Dawn I was done with the 'saga' until a friend dragged me off to see the movie....which I subsequently loved and saw multiple times (not saying how many, let's just say its in the double figures...a good obsession is always fun 😉) - Its so much better than the book.

As Joss says:

TVWeek: Vampires are big in pop culture right now. Have you seen "Twilight'?

Mr. Whedon: I saw "Twilight." And it's"”what can you say? It's absolutely like crack. It strikes a tweener chord that's just as loud as the apocalypse. You cannot deny the power of it. It just works. And I sort of like that.

Whedon QA: On Vampires, 'Battlestar,' More - TVWeek - News

 

[Crazy Flakes]

As Joss says:
TVWeek: Vampires are big in pop culture right now. Have you seen "Twilight'?

Mr. Whedon: I saw "Twilight." And it's"”what can you say? It's absolutely like crack. It strikes a tweener chord that's just as loud as the apocalypse. You cannot deny the power of it. It just works. And I sort of like that.

Crack: a drug that's incredibly addictive, but it's horrible for you and ruins lives.
Twilight: a book that's incredibly addictive, but it's absolutely atrocious and ruins lives.

Hey, he's right!

 

[Kean]

SpoonsAreCool agrees: What if you're on crack AND reading Twilight..what happens then?!

You die.

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

Twilight is PLAGARISM, a cheap knock off, a copy, plain and simple whereas Buffy and Angel are tributes to the Vampire genre in general and honor the great works of literature and film or TV that came before. Buffy WAS NOT a show created for ADULTS as another poster has stated. The demographic was about if not exactly the same...... it's just that the core audience grew up since the show started. (kids seem to get stupider each generation - the Buffy generation were listening to Radiohead - Twilighters? Jonas Brothers) And maybe over the years the buffy fans have read a few classic horror novels - Dracula, Interview with the Vampire etc, seen a few classic Horror movies like Nosferatu etc. etc. and realize that Buffy continues the Vampire tradition with it's own take on it. (a completely viable and honorable way to keep Vampire mythology going - after all, imitation is the highest form of flattery)

But the TWILIGHT creator isn't carrying on VAMPIRE lore or mythology - she's carrying on Buffyverse lore and Angel mythology in a thinly disguise rip off. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME. (and so are all those other shows with GOOD GUY VAMPIRES) They suck in the worst way and lack originallity which is the real element that will decide which property will endure - stand the test of time and become a classic.

Add to that the fact (my prediction here after seeing the TWILIGHT) it seems that the whole Vampire and Werewolf mythology is going to become part of Native Indian mythology in the sequel. My one eighth Indian heritage is insulted to the MAX. YUCH.

Remember Episode 1 season 6 - the wuss Vampire with the Hanson T shirt? He was COOLER than Edward Cullins. (again more Plagarism - the Vampire from Dark Shadows was named Barnabas Collins) Ending post now - must go puke.

Uncle Rory

Great post. Rock on. 🙂

 

[Relic]

I'm curious, If Twilight is maybe a series of books(?) does the lead female ever shake off her Edward super love- he complestes me nonsense?

Remember Buffy said very much, almost rip-off quality, of the same things about Angel in season two (as far as what made females seem weak and what sent sister Kean off.) It is just adolencent love in all its heart wrenching glory, akin to romeo and juliet.

Maybe their is ultimatley a redeaming factor to the female lead....maybe she will ultimately stake Edward if he falls from grace before he goes on a ridiculous rampage. maybe she will do what Buffy could not untill season two's finale.

Buff is a TV show, the best I have ever watched, I will give twilight the benefit of the doubt in time if not in Dollar....as I wish to hear how it pans out before I pay...because it is a movie that has time constraints without untold hours/seasons to seperate it's Buffy from it's Angel/spike... as far as the relationship goes.

In all out honesty and ignorance, how much different is season one and a great deal of season two...even early season three Buffy different from twilights emotional, true, lead?

Thats aimed at you Kean, as I know like me you love Buffy and Angel. Early love is not suppose to make the most sense, it's damn near barbaric. thats why I say Romeo and Juleit, despite Uncle Rorys joke at it, is not that far rron what I've heard about twilight?

Are their honestly no consequences and a happily ever after?

That be the case, I'd be disappointed at its shortcomings

 

[Uncle Rory]

Thing is I remember watching dark shadows as a kid when we got UHF out in the sticks...it was pretty shallow too. Maybe I'm just not remebering it fondly because it was always a lead in to thriller theater and I was a teenager eager for monsters over drama or at least something scary and without the corny music.

I think Buffy is a thing onto itself, I see it as more pop culture...sure it has elements of 'Goth' - but frankly even that is light, as it has a pretty watered down horror element to it, but I don't see the comparison to dark shadows at all. Maybe Joss and crew did such a good job making it theri own, the relation is just not obvious.

Maybe I need to watch it again, maybe I'll appreciate it more, but memory can't connect any dots....maybe I just saw all the bad episodes.

Here is info directly from Wilkipedia. (Not to say that Wilki is the ultimate source of Fact, just that others see the influence clearly)

Dark Shadows pioneered the concept of a soap opera with a supernatural theme. In later years, the prime-time satire Soap would introduce an Exorcist-inspired storyline. Days of our Lives would feature a groundbreaking plot in which its leading female character, Marlena Evans (Deidre Hall), was possessed by Satan. Coming full circle, the soap operas Port Charles and Passions would emerge in the 1990s, both largely driven by supernatural-based plots involving vampires, witches, and werewolves. Twin Peaks was a prime-time soap with many supernatural elements, though without classical movie monsters. The popular Joss Whedon series Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel, with their continuing serial plotlines, could be described as treading a path first laid by Dark Shadows. Even the popular gay and lesbian here! network has produced its own supernatural soap operas in "Dante's Cove" and "The Lair" which both contain witchcraft and vampire storylines. Dark Shadows is also widely credited with introducing the concept of the "compassionate vampire", the mostly "good" vampire tortured by his affliction and looking for a cure. This concept has continued to be used in most vampire TV shows and movies ever since.

During the 1970 "Parallel Time" storyline, Barnabas is trapped in his coffin and forced to relate his vampiric history to a down-and-out writer, who hopes to publish the interviews as a book. This anticipated Anne Rice's wildly popular cult series of novels (the plot of the first book in this series "” Interview with the Vampire "” is about a down-and-out writer who listens to a vampire relate his tortured history) that themselves could be considered a vampire soap opera. Also like Dark Shadows, Rice's narratives often feature abrupt shifts in time periods (as whichever vampire is currently narrating his story will relate stories from varying points in his centuries-long existence).

Dark Shadows also did a whole 6 week "time travel" segment which the A team's trip to Pylea seemed to emulate.

Uncle Rory