Buffy hitting Faith!!!

[eponinethen]

Yeah I don't think thats why she hit her either. I think she hit her cause she knew she was right. And she felt Faith was coming in to 'take over'.

This says a lot in my opinion. Because, as I said, I really do understand why Buffy acted the way she did. But I don't think it was "morally" right to hit Faith. I'm not saying Faith was totally right to do what she did, but she didn't do it to "take over" or to show Buffy that she wasn't in charge or anything. She did it because she thought it was the right thing to do, and that it was what the potentials needed. Faith was really really trying here, to be the good guy, to do the right thing. Buffy should be able to notice, if she wasn't to cought up in not trusting Faith, and believing Faith was going to screw up once more.
Again, I understand Buffy feeling the way she did, she had a reason (sot of), she and Faith had a past, obviously. But she still wasn't right to do so, she was being unfair and not seeing the situation at all, just seeing Faith (and Faith's past)...

 

[Anchovy]

All right.

I think we can all agree that Buffy was wrong to hit Faith because it was not at all the right way to handle the situation. She shouldn't have hit Faith, but recognized that Faith was trying to do a good thing (I agree with Eps that Faith wasn't trying to hurt anyone, she just made a mistake.) But Faith DOES need to understand that she did make a mistake and those girls are important and need to be safe. And I think by the end of the episode, she does understand that. But I don't think that Buffy hitting her helped her realize that at all. I think it was her own mind and sense of right and wrong, along with the restaint that Buffy (finally) showed after she was kicked out of her house.

All I was saying was that I understood how Buffy could make the mistake of hitting Faith. Neither Faith nor Buffy was right in this scenario: they both made mistakes, but Faith realized it by the end of the episode. I think Buffy did too, and that's why she "passed the torch" by saying "Don't be afraid to lead them". I think both women grew and understood eaach other better once they both realized that they had done wrong.

 

[eponinethen]

All I was saying was that I understood how Buffy could make the mistake of hitting Faith. Neither Faith nor Buffy was right in this scenario: they both made mistakes, but Faith realized it by the end of the episode. I think Buffy did too, and that's why she "passed the torch" by saying "Don't be afraid to lead them". I think both women grew and understood eaach other better once they both realized that they had done wrong.

Lol. Yea okay I'm thinking we have pretty much the same opinions about this. Except some are a little bit more on Buffy's side (like you) and some are a bit more on Faith's (like me). But yea, I pretty much agree with what you're saying there Anchovy 🙂

 

[phoenixrising]

I think Buffy had the right to hit Faith. Faith was doing what she usually does, using someone's past mistakes to hurt them. Buffy was feeling guilty about the debacle that was the fight at the vineyard and Faith used it to hurt Buffy because she (Faith) was feeling guilty about taking the Potentials to the Bronze. Buffy was walking away, her scolding of Faith done, when Faith launched her verbal attack. Was Buffy right to hit Faith? Probably not. Did she have the right? Oh yeah.

 

[eponinethen]

^ (Yeah... I'd say that Buffy was the one who was constantly using Faith's past mistakes to hurt her. Although she knew Faith had changed. Although she knew how hard Faith was trying.)

 

[LadyLavinia]

OK, I completely disagree. I think Buffy was completely justified in being that angry with Faith. And how does Buffy deal with her anger? She lashes out physically. Usually she does it by pummeling vamps on patrol, but that's because usually, whoever she's mad at is human and if she hit them, it would just about kill them. Very few times does Buffy have a fight (like a verbal fight) with her friends (I can only think of the Yoko Factor and Selfless right now). But with Faith, it's safe to punch her, because she's a slayer and she can take it.

See, I don't think it was right for Buffy to actually hit Faith, but I can understand the urge to do it. After all, those girls are in Buffy's care, not Faith's. And Faith is the one who took them out in a VERY dangerous town at night, got alcohol for them (she had to. How else would any of those girls get alcohol? The bartender at the Bronze HAS to be responsible, with all those high schoolers who hang out there) and got them into a fight. And then she wouldn't take responsibility for it. I understand how Buffy got that angry. Now I do agree that Buffy shouldn't have hit Faith and faith showed admirable restraint in not fighting back. But Faith DID do major wrong in this situation.

I agree. I can understand Buffy's anger at Faith. But I do abhor Buffy using violence at expressing her anger. Frankly, I think that Buffy needs an anger management course.

 

[Xin Rong]

Buffy didn't really pass the torch so much as have it taken from her though really, and I do agree that both women did learn a lesson by the end of the episode. Buffy learnt that just because she was the slayer in charge didn't mean she was never wrong and unquestionable, which is seen when she actually asks the scoobs if they agree with her plan instead of saing this is the plan, you will do it.

I think Faiths lesson was more subtle but she still learnt one and helped buffy to learn hers, without faiths indirect help I reckon the entire series would have ended differently, i mean would you follow someone you hated into the mouth of hell, because i sure wouldn't and i doubt most of the potentials would have too.

Also I dont really see a genuine mistake as a wrong, just not right if you know what i mean, i just think the word wrong is too emotive a word to use when explaining a mistake made

 

[eponinethen]

Buffy didn't really pass the torch so much as have it taken from her though really, and I do agree that both women did learn a lesson by the end of the episode. Buffy learnt that just because she was the slayer in charge didn't mean she was never wrong and unquestionable, which is seen when she actually asks the scoobs if they agree with her plan instead of saing this is the plan, you will do it.

Yea, but Buffy also understood that Faith didn't want to steal her torch (uh), and it was pretty huge of her to realize that and tell Faith to "don't be afraid to lead them". I love that moment, in a way, even if it's all sad for everyone, especially Buffy and Faith, there's still some sort of connection... Buffy understanding Faith just a little bit better, and Faith understanding Buffy just a little bit better.

 

[Xin Rong]

Also I just realised something, I think Buffy hit Faith because she hated having her decisions questioned, think about it everytime buffys decisions are questioned she responds badly i.e. series 4 where the gang split up or in series 7 where her decisions are called into qustion so much that she has the title of leader removed and what does buffy do in response to his she acts superioir and then walks out. she could have stayed.

so we already know buffy was suspicious of everyone (except spike) so when faith questioned her decisio she thinks maybe everyone will and doesn't like that so lashes out at faith.

I may be way of the mark here and not making sense but I feel its a good explanation of buffys actions. BTW I blame buffys sense of superority and hatred of questioning on Riley

 

[Mesektet Ra]

I think, that if Buffy hitting Faith came under different circumstances, then maybe it would be justified. But not here.

Whoever said Buffy has issues with Faith messing with things that 'belonged' to her was right on the money [I'll find you and rep you, because I really couldn't've said it better myself]. I completely understand Faith's viewpoint of the situation: It's the end of days, let's have a party. Because Buffy was coming down so hard on the girls, and they were so stressed, I think they needed that little break. The drinking thing is another story, though, because if you're about to fight an evil bigger than evil, getting blasted is not exactly the smartest of ideas. Dancing, though, and having a little fun should be warranted.

Buffy doesn't like to have her past indescretions thrown in her face, which is alright, considering NO ONE likes to have their mistakes plastered on a billboard somewhere. But the thing that gets me is Buffy still thought her decision to go to the vineyard and put the Potientals in direct danger was right. And Buffy gets antsy anytime someone starts to question her. Which I think is immature and stupid.

What I'm trying to say throught the rant-yness is that I think the punch was derived from Buffy peevedness that Faith dared question her. Faith? Question Buffy? HOW DARE SHE?! Faith of all people. Oh my Goth. And in that respect, I think Faith wasn't deserving of that.

Now this whole issue leads into 'Empty Places', which is another nice long rant I've had many a time on many a board. So. I am done, therefore I depart.

 

[killerdwarf]

BTW I blame buffys sense of superority and hatred of questioning on Riley

This is a good point, but I don't think "blame" is the right word. I think Buffy was in full command mode during most of S7, in that she suddenly had "troops" that needed training while being in mortal danger. Buffy's only real model for leading a large group was Riley(the scoobs don't count, for the most part they always let Buffy lead and were happy to follow). The military model doesn't do well with questioning orders, and since she had little experience with other models, Buffy fell back on this one. Her fears for the safety of the potentials and her friends, her past with Faith, her inexperience with dissention in the ranks, all contributed to her lashing out physically at the easiest and most capable target. Was it right? Probably not. Was it understandable? Oh yeah.

 

[LadyLavinia]

There are too many variables in this situation to pass judgment, one way or the other.

Both Buffy and Faith had made mistakes.

One, Buffy WAS WRONG to hit Faith - use the other Slayer as a punching bag to express her anger.

Two, Faith may or may not have been wrong to take the Potentials to the Bronze. Yes, it was dangerous of her to do so. But at the same time, the Potentials were in dire need of some kind of recreation. And her style of acting as leader of the girls was a lot more preferable than Buffy's at the time.

So, who was right and who was wrong? Both. Buffy was right to be angry at Faith for taking the Potentials to the Bronze and putting them in a dangerous situation. However, Buffy had no right to take out her anger at Faith by striking her.

 

[PrincessZombie]

I think all the fault lies with Buffy. Imagine for a second what would have happened if Buffy had taken the potentials out to have some fun. Nothing. Everyone would have thought Buffy was great to do it. But since Faith did it, she got hit.

 

[Xin Rong]

Yeah buffy gets the girls chased by an uber vampm which was too dangerous, im sure she should have killed it without putting them in that much danger. Fair enough they needed a moral boost but this could have been achieved just by saying it was dead watching it die caused no big changes in the potentials, so was kind of useless

BTW I meant i blame riley for buffys percieved supeiriority becuase pre series 4 she was fairly normal but with superpowers, she didnt think she was worse or better than anyone else. But then Riley comes along wow your so great, yu've killed more than 17 demons bla bla omg i dont even think i could take you and all the other crap that came out of rileys mounth (i know these aint exact quotes)

This leads buffy to get kind of big headed thinking like wow this big military guy thinks im fab, even the initiaitive couldnt track me down and beat me and they want me to join the initiative. Then in the end she takes on the initiative and adam and wins so its like i took on one of the most powerful forces in the world (i.e. the U.S. military) and won, so i must be good, i bet xander or willow couldnot do that.

I'm not saying this was something she did conciousley but i do blame series 4 and riley for the percieved superiority of buffy

 

[sweet_witch]

Well, she kinda didn't have to not, but I didn't like it that much.

 

[Anchovy]

Oh god are we opeing this can of worms again? Nooo!! (It's like that time I had to butt back in on the 'Buffy's Duty' thing!) 😉

 

[Kimm]

As far as Buffy feeling superior goes....she is!!!

She is the slayer!!! She is forced to revolve her entire life around her calling and she has saved the world from ending how many times???

The fact is, she is superior!! I think everyone would be well advised to listen to what she has to say and do what she says they should do because she's proven time and again that she's very capable and has been doing it the longest!!

I will agree though that it wasn't necessarily right for her to hit Faith.

 

[Black Eye Guy]

This one is tuff, I mean Buffy punching Faith is the same thing as a Slayer name calling Game, Faith could easily take it, Another thing is Buffy does not know how to communicate with Faith, they only real way they have communicated was through fighting. Although I would agree that if Buffy had taken the potentials to the Bronze and Faith had gone after then she would not have it her, I think she would have if she had not grown as a character. Buffy has not really recognized that Faith has grown so she treats her the way she always has, by hitting her.

 

[TabulaRasa]

I just think she was feeling really bad, being left out. She hit Faith, and I dont feel bad about it, cause I think Faith stepped a bit over the line. But Maybe talking is better then punching, lol...but I admit I liked the action.

 

[Xin Rong]

Two wrongs don't make a right there, by punching face for stepping over the line (although i think she was just being honest) she was herself stepping over the line, making herself a bit of a hypocrit